Can the seal be broken? Lack of trust? Grieve the Holy Spirit?

[MatthewG]

When comes to God not being a respecter of persons does that mean believer and nonbeliever alike? He doesn’t respect one better than the other? He sent his son Jesus to pay for sins, so the sins of believer are covered and the sins for the unbeliever is covered only they remain in their sins because of unbelief and they are not able to receive the Rest God has created for them in Christ? @amadeus

 

[amadeus]

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

What will make this false?

Much love!

Nothing at all my friend but there are some conditions to be met in those verses: "If"... "seek"..."set your"...!

Who is to be the judge as whether a condition has been met for us? You? Me? Our priest or rabbi or pastor? We may have an opinion or a belief... but who knows?

“O LORD, thou hast searched me, and known me.
Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off.
Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways.
For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it altogether.
Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me.
Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.” Psalm 139:1-6

 

[marks]

Who is to be the judge as whether a condition has been met for us?

The One Who has raised us with Christ, Who testifies within.

This is the sole condition in this passage, and if we are to consider it true as stated, this is what it says. This one condition being met, that you've been raised with Him now, you shall appear with Him in glory then. And He Who raises us, He is the One Who testifies.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

When comes to God not being a respecter of persons does that mean believer and nonbeliever alike? He doesn’t respect one better than the other? He sent his son Jesus to pay for sins, so the sins of believer are covered and the sins for the unbeliever is covered only they remain in their sins because of unbelief and they are not able to receive the Rest God has created for them in Christ? @amadeus

God has never changed. So has God given those who have lived after Jesus sacrificed himself on the cross advantages over those people who lived during the times described in the OT? If so then in order to not be a respecter of persons, would not God require more those who have lived after the sacrifice of Jesus?

Any of us today who really have received the gift of the Holy Spirit have been given more than most people in the OT, so are we not required to do more than them in order to receive the same or better rewards?

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

"Much is given... much is required"!

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

92830DED-D5FA-4F7C-BA98-33BB836555E7

• TEXBOW
• Nov 4, 2021
• 3

Seal

Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that, ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption

The same Greek word used for 'sealed' in Ephesians is also used in Matthew 27:66 where Christ's tomb was "sealed" yet we know that seal was broken. There does not seem to be anything inherent in this Greek word that means UNconditionally permanently sealed.

In Ephesians, Paul is talking about those who are already Christians who are CONDITIONALLY "in Christ/In Him" Ephesians 1:1.3,4,7.
So as long as one CONDITIONALLY remains faithful in the group Christian in Christ he will be of the sealed. But if one in unbelief falls away from the group Christian he is no longer in Christ and no longer among the sealed group while those who remain faithful do remain sealed in the group that is in Christ.
Just because one is sealed, the sealing does not do away with free will...no one was forced to become sealed against their will nor is one forced to remain sealed against their will. Those "sealed" Ephesians were warned Ephesians 5:3-7 not to allow themselves to be deceived becoming partakers with "children of disobedience" having then to face God's wrath. Some 25 or so years later we read in Revelation 2:1-7 how the church at Ephesus had "left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent." They had fallen, left Christ and if they did not repent, have their candlestick (church - Revelations 1:20) removed by God, no longer be acknowledge by God as His church. Their salvation, their remaining a Christian in Christ, their remaining sealed was CONDITIONAL that they repent (Luke 13:3).

Therefore, for one to be sealed and remained sealed CONDITIONALLY requires one be in the group Christian in Christ. There is no scripture or NT example that teaches an individual can UNconditionally be sealed apart from being in the group Christian, apart from Christ.
I might also add that this idea of "sealing" was also found among God's people under the OT law of Moses. The Jews were "sealed" with circumcision (Romans 4:11-same Greek root word as used in Ephesians) with circumcision being a sign/token the Jew was in a covenant relationship with God. Yet from Romans 11:19-22 the sealed Jews were broken off due to their unbelief. Therefore "sealing" does not carry the idea of some UNconditional security but is CONDITIONAL upon a CONTINUED belief for the Jew that was under the OT law and the Christian who is under the NT law. One can be of the "they" that shall never perish (John 10:28) as long as one CONDITIONALLY maintains a present tense, CONTINUED belief thereby can remain a sheep of Christ (John 10:27) and remain of the sealed group called Christian. One does not UNconditionally become sealed nor does one remain UNconditionally sealed regardless of what one does.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

92830DED-D5FA-4F7C-BA98-33BB836555E7

• TEXBOW
• Nov 4, 2021
• 3

Seal

Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that, ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption

No the seal is unbreakable. We know from Scripture when that seal will be unsealed--at the day of redemption! Men are incapable of opening something sealed by God.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

No the seal is unbreakable. We know from Scripture when that seal will be unsealed--at the day of redemption! Men are incapable of opening something sealed by God.

I can't help but notice you didn't provide a single passage that supports this theology. It's almost as if you expect people to just take your word for it.

When Paul talked about Christians being sealed with the Holy Spirit, he wasn't talking about the kind of seals people today usually imagine. The context of the original Greek word shows Paul was actually saying that upon conversion, Christians are authenticated by the Holy Spirit as someone who belongs to God in the same way ancient letters were stamped by government officials as proof of their authenticity. Nowhere in the passage did Paul ever teach anything that even remotely implied eternal security is biblical.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I can't help but notice you didn't provide a single passage that supports this theology. It's almost as if you expect people to just take your word for it.

When Paul talked about Christians being sealed with the Holy Spirit, he wasn't talking about the kind of seals people today usually imagine. The context of the original Greek word shows Paul was actually saying that upon conversion, Christians are authenticated by the Holy Spirit as someone who belongs to God in the same way ancient letters were stamped by government officials as proof of their authenticity. Nowhere in the passage did Paul ever teach anything that even remotely implied eternal security is biblical.

Wrong!

Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

The greek is sphragizo and is:

The KJV translates Strong's G4972 in the following manner: seal (22x), set to (one's) seal (1x), stop (1x), seal up (1x), set a seal (1x), variations of 'seal' (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. to set a seal upon, mark with a seal, to seal
   
   
   1. for security: from Satan
      
      
   2. since things sealed up are concealed (as the contents of a letter), to hide, keep in silence, keep secret
      
      
   3. in order to mark a person or a thing
      
      1. to set a mark upon by the impress of a seal or a stamp
         
         
      2. angels are said to be sealed by God
         
   4. in order to prove, confirm, or attest a thing
      
      
      1. to confirm authenticate, place beyond doubt
         
         
         1. of a written document
            
            
         2. to prove one's testimony to a person that he is what he professes to be
            
      2. Sorry but you are in error. this sealing is by explicit declaration owning someone, and because the word "until" is used it tells us when we are protected and hid till.

Paul refers to this in Phillipians as we being dead and his in Christ and when Christ who is our life shall appear we shall appear witrh him- that is not a maybe or might be but shall be.

 

[TEXBOW]

Wrong!

Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

The greek is sphragizo and is:

The KJV translates Strong's G4972 in the following manner: seal (22x), set to (one's) seal (1x), stop (1x), seal up (1x), set a seal (1x), variations of 'seal' (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. to set a seal upon, mark with a seal, to seal
   
   1. for security: from Satan
      
      
   2. since things sealed up are concealed (as the contents of a letter), to hide, keep in silence, keep secret
      
      
   3. in order to mark a person or a thing
      1. to set a mark upon by the impress of a seal or a stamp
         
         
      2. angels are said to be sealed by God
   4. in order to prove, confirm, or attest a thing
      
      1. to confirm authenticate, place beyond doubt
         
         1. of a written document
            
            
         2. to prove one's testimony to a person that he is what he professes to be
      2. Sorry but you are in error. this sealing is by explicit declaration owning someone, and because the word "until" is used it tells us when we are protected and hid till.

Paul refers to this in Phillipians as we being dead and his in Christ and when Christ who is our life shall appear we shall appear witrh him- that is not a maybe or might be but shall be.

Matthew 24:10-13
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Apostasia
Paul uses the Greek word apostasia which can be translated as “apostasy”, “falling away”, “betrayal” or “rebellion”

Apostasy is the same thing as falling from grace.

 

[MatthewG]

Apostasy is renouncing God and Jesus Christ as your liable source of life. Which is known as leaving faith, no longer being of faith and walking away from it.

 

[TEXBOW]

Apostasy is renouncing God and Jesus Christ as your liable source of life. Which is known as leaving faith, no longer being of faith and walking away from it.

OSAS is false teaching.

 

[MatthewG]

That is why faith is to be encouraged, faith is pistis in the Greek it means Gods divine persuasion which is given to us by the Lord Jesus Christ and the promises of eternal life, resurrection from the dead, communicating with God through prayer, receiving newness of life by the spirit should be encouraged to be of remembering least the evil spirit of unbelief fills ones heart, Tex.

I agree once saved always saved is a manmade doctrine.

Be careful then, dear brothers and sisters. Make sure that your own hearts are not evil and unbelieving, turning you away from the living God Hebrews 3:12

 

[Taken]

Can the seal be broken? Lack of trust? Grieve the Holy Spirit?
OP^

No, the seal cannot be broken.
No, a sealed person does not lack trust.
Yes, men can grieve the Holy Spirit.

The Kings Seal IS a promise of His Word to Redeem the one who IS Sealed.

The King Seals the one who Trusted to Believe AND Confessed his belief, to whit, the “King” searched the Confessors Heart that his Confession be True.

Grieving the Holy Spirit, is quenching the Holy Spirit, which means the individual With the Holy Spirit, holds back, the “reflection” of the Holy Spirit upon that individual, for others to see.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

OSAS is false teaching.

Why?

 

[MatthewG]

Why?

The Bible explicitly says so:

Be careful then, dear brothers and sisters. Make sure that your own hearts are not evil and unbelieving, turning you away from the living God Hebrews 3:12

 

[Taken]

The Bible explicitly says so:

Be careful then, dear brothers and sisters. Make sure that your own hearts are not evil and unbelieving, turning you away from the living God Hebrews 3:12

Disagree...And Why.
These men were NOT saved, by The Savior Christ Jesus.
These men Jewish brethren, are being warned to NOT depart from Believing IN God (to their end)....so they WILL BECOME SAVED

[12] Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

[13] But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

[14] For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;


[15] While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
[16] For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
[17] But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
[18] And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
[19] So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

OSAS is about men who ACCEPTED Christ Jesus’ Offering of Salvation while alive in their Body, (BEFORE their physical flesh death, spiritually crucified with Christ.)

Jews, Long standing Believed in God.
Jews, Long standing who Believed in God (to their Death), WERE, and SHALL BEcome Saved BY the Savior Christ.
Jews, Long standing who Believed in God, and stopped believing IN God, WERE NOT, and SHALL NOT BEcome Saved BY the Savior Christ.

Their Salvation is AFTER physical Death, IF they continue Believing IN GOD.

Same applies to Jews and Gentiles TODAY... IF ...
Jews believe in God to their death....they shall be saved.
Gentiles believe in God to their death....they shall be saved.
Any man that believes in Jesus to their death....they shall be saved.

Any man who CONFESSES True Heartful Belief...IN Christ Jesus and the one who sent Him (ie God)...they ConfessED Belief, IN God, IN Jesus, IN Christ...
THEY DO not wait, until Physical death to Become SAVED...
THEY ARE SAVED ONCE AND FOREVER.

*Why Once? Jesus Christ teaching...IF thou will Confess.
Rom 10: 9-10
*Why Once? Convert-ED a completed act.
Matt 18:3
*Why Forever? They become Born Again of Gods Seed, ONCE
1 Pet 1:23
* Why Forever? The Power of God (Holy Spirit) enters them and KEEPS them Convert-ED in Belief.
Rom 8: 9`10`11
* Why Forever?
John 14: 16`17

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[MatthewG]

Taken,

Subsequently people can renounce their faith at anytime, becoming unbelieving. Believers however are to maintain their faith, by believing and praying, and holding on to the promises of God. That is their security which is a constant maintained relationship, with God.

Simply confessing doesn’t mean anything if you are not living out the faith in that relationship if you are not personally active in your relationship with God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, from my understanding, that would be considered faithless.

(Thankfully he is still faithful even when we are faithless whenever those times may be (Maybe hating someone, holding grudge, or something like that, faith in Jesus leads to love for God and love for Others).

Thank you for stating your perception of your belief and why you believe that, hope you have a good day, and all here.

Take care,

Matthew

 

[MatthewG]

Someone mentioned a few months ago, they had a friend who was on fire in the faith for 10 years, all to suddenly come out to say they didn’t believe in that stuff anymore.

What happened? He got into seeking other avenues rather than God, and the spirit of doubt came along and the man feed that spirit, and relinquished himself of having any trust in Gods promises anymore, praying or seeking out God.

You may say that he was never a true believer in the first place but how can you know? He was on fire for the Lord for 10 years until the evil spirit of unbelief came in, and the knowledge of the world seemed more inviting, than trusting in God it seems.

Therefore people can, and there are people who will, get that spirit of doubt within them, and feed it and relinquish themselves of having any relationship with true and living God, and God as good as he is will give that person up to their desires, though he much rather them have a relationship with Him.

Just thought would share this note with you, @Taken and anyone here.

 

[MatthewG]

Remember the parable of the sower, the seeds that scatted on different heart ground?

Always think about Jesus and what he said in what he said to the disciples when they asked what did those things mean.

Reject the doctrine of men my friends, please think for yourself and don’t forget what Jesus has said.

God bless, hold on to the promises and wait patiently all the day on the LORD.


“Cause me to tread in Thy truth, and teach me, For Thou [art] the God of my salvation, Near Thee I have waited all the day.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭25:5‬ ‭YLT98‬‬


“Lead me by your truth and teach me, for you are the God who saves me. All day long I put my hope in you.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭25:5‬ ‭NLT‬‬


“Lead me in Your truth and teach me, For You are the God of my salvation; On You I wait all the day.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭25:5‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Matthew 24:10-13
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Apostasia
Paul uses the Greek word apostasia which can be translated as “apostasy”, “falling away”, “betrayal” or “rebellion”

Apostasy is the same thing as falling from grace.

1. Matt. 24 is referring to the tribulation times and the beast and physical problems, not salvation.

2. The apostasy refers to the falling away of the church not individuals. Though individuals have fallen away. Many denominations that were once vibrant and alive are now dead and preaching false doctrine.

Grace is given undeservedly. we cannopt earn grace, and as Jesus said no one can pluck us out of His hand and that includes ourselves.