Can the seal be broken? Lack of trust? Grieve the Holy Spirit?

[DuckieLady]

No thoughts on God giving people over to their own desires?

Maybe some people never considered God really doing that, so hope that gives you a bit more insight on how God is, when it comes to his goodness.

I believe he also not willingly that any should perish but all to come to repentance towards Him and his Son the Lord Yeshua, even in the afterlife.

1 Cor 5:4-5


So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

Understand? So, basically, we blame hardships on being tested like Job, or say we are being punished, but there is another time - and it is that time of God handing us over to our own desires.

God knows that there are natural consequences to sin. Sometimes, it is the real life consequences of our sin that can make us hate that sin so much that the desires of the flesh become "burned up", so that we can be saved on the day of the Lord's coming, and may even be the thing that makes us cry out to the Lord.

 

[MatthewG]

That wasn’t my question, it was about if anyone had thoughts about God giving people over to their own desires.

Do you believe God does that? If the do not desire the truth, and instead look at all the natural things in life rather than the heavenly?

Romans 1:24.

Thank you for insights on 1 Corinthians 5:4-5 does it really relate to Romans 1:24? What are your thoughts on that?

 

[MatthewG]

“So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:24-25‬ ‭NLT‬‬


“Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:24-25‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[DuckieLady]

That wasn’t my question, it was about if anyone had thoughts about God giving people over to their own desires.

Do you believe God does that? If the do not desire the truth, and instead look at all the natural things in life rather than the heavenly?

Romans 1:24.

Thank you for insights on 1 Corinthians 5:4-5 does it really relate to Romans 1:24? What are your thoughts on that?

Yes my phone is about to die so I'll have to wait, but I believe it is the same.

In reference to the verse in 1st Cor:


Handed over to Satan = being handed over to their sin

 

[DuckieLady]

But btw @MatthewG while I can still type, yes I do and I experienced it.

I was a witch and I did not obey at first - and God didn't save me from it right away. I had entertained evil spirits and he let me experience the consequences of it just so much that I never did it again and so I could be free from witchcraft.

 

[amadeus]

This however would makes God a respecter of persons. He is not!

I don't see that. How so?

Much love!

Consider the following response I made on this forum a couple of years ago:

I believe that God has always made a way for a person whose heart is right to correct what needed to be corrected before all would be lost:

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." I Cor 10:13

When a person is really simply tempting God because he's done it before and God in His mercy seemingly has 'let it slide' the person will sometimes [frequently?] presume God will do it continuously... but that is a foolish presumption. There is a limit to God's mercy or patience with a person who makes presumptions about God. The children of Israel has their 10 times before God effectively said , "Enough!" Then after their 40 years they died in the wilderness instead of entering the Promised land with their children.

David's punishment would have been death but God knew the man's heart and made " a way to escape". David's way to escape was seen in his willingness to take the punishment he knew he deserved under the law given to Moses, that is death. David owned up to his fault and God sent Nathan to give him a lesser punishment.

God is no respecter of persons. [That is, God shows us no more mercy and has no more patience with us than He did with David.]
As He gave David "a way to escape" so will He do the same for us. If He has done this for us already and we go on our merry way presuming that God will repeatedly do the same thing again a limitless number of times, we have failed to understand God. He is God and He knows when we are tempting Him rather than admitting that we deserve death.

The punishments or rewards of God are measured according to these words of Jesus:

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

We should never presume that no matter what we do, God will be merciful because once upon a time, we repented... This is the problem I see for some people presume their own salvation [unending Life with God] is a fixed thing through their OSAS belief...

[I say some because some people with this belief may not presume to play games with and to tempt God.]

 

[amadeus]

This however would makes God a respecter of persons. He is not!

I don't see that. How so?

Much love!

No, no failsafe advantages here!

As men look at it, it may seem that we have an advantage because we have been given so much more. But... with the more given, more is required. God is always fair in a way that many men cannot understand. This is what the scriptures mean when they say He is no respecter of persons.

Americans and all the other western... [supposedly] civilized nations with so many advantages don't realize that God requires a return for those advantages to make them [us] equal in His eyes to those seeming given so much less.

We are the rich men here in U.S.A. and similar nations in material goods and so many other advantages. We are the rich men compared to camels trying to squeeze through the eye of a needle. Would we perhaps have been better to be a follower of Christ in a nation under Sharia where following Him would likely result in physical suffering and death? Would we have been better to be a follower of Christ in a nation under extreme poverty like Bangladesh or Haiti where physical suffering and death is also not unlikely?

People like the idea that they can make it into God's kingdom with no bruises and no suffering because Jesus did the whole thing for us. They forget or ignore or fail to understand:

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake." Matt 5:11

"Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me" John 15:20-21

Jesus brought us Life, but that Life is not to found where too many people are looking! They are blind like Philip when he asked Jesus:

"...Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us." John 14:8

And then let us hear Jesus' response:

"...Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?" John 14:9

Instead of seeing Jesus and the Father, too many people see only the blessings and the rewards promised. Where is the love for God and for people?

 

[marks]

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

@marks.

There, that's the correct application of that God is not a respector of persons.

Much love!

 

[marks]

No scripture says that the seal cannot be broken.

Actually, it teaches that God is all powerful, so no, that seal cannot be broken. It's as effective and meaningful as the Person Who put it there.

I can put my seal on a box, and and someone comes along and opens that box, and steals the contents, and what am I going to do? I have very little power.

Someone else may take you to court over it.

God doesn't need human courts.

But I guess the idea is that the contents that are under seal might just climb out and run away. Again, it all goes back to the authority and power of the One Who places the seal. That's what the seal means. That by God's authority and power He preserves His claim of ownership, not to be relinguished until the day He comes to take possession.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Any thoughts on God giving people over to their own desires if they want that?

Does that make God a good God? Who allows free choice? I believe it does allow for God to be a Good God, but what is your opinion or thought?

The flesh man always wants sin and rebellion, the spirit man is born of God and desires Him.

Which desires did you have in mind?

Much love!

 

[DuckieLady]

Actually, it teaches that God is all powerful, so no, that seal cannot be broken. It's as effective and meaningful as the Person Who put it there.

I can put my seal on a box, and and someone comes along and opens that box, and steals the contents, and what am I going to do? I have very little power.

Someone else may take you to court over it.

God doesn't need human courts.

But I guess the idea is that the contents that are under seal might just climb out and run away. Again, it all goes back to the authority and power of the One Who places the seal. That's what the seal means. That by God's authority and power He preserves His claim of ownership, not to be relinguished until the day He comes to take possession.

Much love!

@marks

My brother was baptized about two years ago or so. (I'm guessing the time.) I'm not sure if he was a full believer.

Afterwards, he had started really getting into Satanism.

Are you saying there is no way he could go to hell?

 

[marks]

No, no failsafe advantages here!

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

What will make this false?

Much love!

 

[farouk]

@FluffyYellowDuck Keep praying; we can't see the heart; but God does and His grace can draw...

 

[marks]

@marks

My brother was baptized about two years ago or so. (I'm guessing the time.) I'm not sure if he was a full believer.

Afterwards, he had started really getting into Satanism.

Are you saying there is no way he could go to hell?

No, what I'm saying is that if God has set His seal of ownership on some thing or some one, no one in this world is powerful to countermand Him.

I'm not going to be successful in enforcing some claim that what He owns, I'm going to take away. Not from God. He is Almighty, and I am not.

Whatever the implications of this truth, that doesn't affect the validity of the teaching. God puts His seal of ownship, and who is the man to say no to God?

If God put His seal on something to show it's owned by Him, then, I think that's going to be the final word. No one is mightier then He. So unless He relinquishes His claim, that's the way it stays. And from what I read in the Bible, He has no intent to give us up.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

The flesh man always wants sin and rebellion, the spirit man is born of God and desires Him.

Which desires did you have in mind?

Much love!

Hello Marks,

In the context God gives them over to their desires, who exchange truth for a lie.

So it seems that people can stop caring for God and instead worship the creature - ie: the things of man rather than the things of God.


The word of God is truth, and it the only thing that can renew a persons mind and it seems to me, that God will give them over, even if it was a previous person who believed in the Gospel of Christ yet may have been choked out by the cares and riches of this world, or have been persecuted because of sharing the word, or they have no root in the word.

depends on the heart of the person;

“Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:24-25‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Matthew 13 for the parable of the sower.

What are your thoughts here about this and what God does?

 

[farouk]

Hello Marks,

In the context God gives them over to their desires, who exchange truth for a lie.

So it seems that people can stop caring for God and instead worship the creature - ie: the things of man rather than the things of God.


The word of God is truth, and it the only thing that can renew a persons mind and it seems to me, that God will give them over, even if it was a previous person who believed in the Gospel of Christ yet may have been choked out by the cares and riches of this world, or have been persecuted because of sharing the word, or they have no root in the word.

depends on the heart of the person;

“Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:24-25‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Matthew 13 for the parable of the sower.

@MatthewG There is also the confidence that Paul had about true believers, as opposed to mere professors: "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:" (Philippians 1.6).

 

[DuckieLady]

No, what I'm saying is that if God has set His seal of ownership on some thing or some one, no one in this world is powerful to countermand Him.

I'm not going to be successful in enforcing some claim that what He owns, I'm going to take away. Not from God. He is Almighty, and I am not.

Whatever the implications of this truth, that doesn't affect the validity of the teaching. God puts His seal of ownship, and who is the man to say no to God?

If God put His seal on something to show it's owned by Him, then, I think that's going to be the final word. No one is mightier then He. So unless He relinquishes His claim, that's the way it stays. And from what I read in the Bible, He has no intent to give us up.

Much love!

That makes sense! Thank you. I understand now.

 

[MatthewG]

@MatthewG There is also the confidence that Paul had about true believers, as opposed to mere professors: "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:" (Philippians 1.6).

Oh I agree for believers who desire to learn and grow in the knowledge of God, there are those who need to hear the preaching but what do you do they come ask you on how to help them with their problems?

You say renew your mind by reading the word but they do not want to they don’t make time to do so? I get hanging out with anyone and having love and consideration for others. Then if you ask if they wanna do a Bible study and they are like nah I don’t got time for that.

Even if people confess Christ God knows their heart and we all will die and be judged by him. We are to love God first love others too. And we all have our choices don’t we?

 

[farouk]

Oh I agree for believers who desire to learn and grow in the knowledge of God, there are those who need to hear the preaching but what do you do they come ask you on how to help them with their problems?

You say renew your mind by reading the word but they do not want to they don’t make time to do so? I get hanging out with anyone and having love and consideration for others. Then if you ask if they wanna do a Bible study and they are like nah I don’t got time for that.

Even if people confess Christ God knows their heart and we all will die and be judged by him. We are to love God first love others too. And we all have our choices don’t we?

@MatthewG I do think that interest in prayer and the Scriptures can be a barometer to someone's spiritual state: if there is really no interest, then the Lord may not be working in them, whatever they may profess.

 

[MatthewG]

Well it’s good to remember that some people may not care a bit about God, but keep spreading the good news and some people will grab ahold and seek and find the truth out, and God is able to help those who don’t have the word to read but helps them by the spirit.

With God anything like that is possible and keep praying for all people my friend,

@farouk.