Can the seal be broken? Lack of trust? Grieve the Holy Spirit?

[Taken]

Someone mentioned a few months ago, they had a friend who was on fire in the faith for 10 years, all to suddenly come out to say they didn’t believe in that stuff anymore.

What happened? He got into seeking other avenues rather than God, and the spirit of doubt came along and the man feed that spirit, and relinquished himself of having any trust in Gods promises anymore, praying or seeking out God.

You may say that he was never a true believer in the first place but how can you know? He was on fire for the Lord for 10 years until the evil spirit of unbelief came in, and the knowledge of the world seemed more inviting, than trusting in God it seems.

Therefore people can, and there are people who will, get that spirit of doubt within them, and feed it and relinquish themselves of having any relationship with true and living God, and God as good as he is will give that person up to their desires, though he much rather them have a relationship with Him.

Just thought would share this note with you, @Taken and anyone here.

Thanks. No I would not say he was NEVER a true Believer.
I can not say, WHAT he believed, or WHY.
Lot’s of people can BELIEVE, “be on fire”, preach the Word of God...

For all I know, it could have been from his Academic mindful BELIEF that “he was on fire”.
God delineates...between what the Mind Believes and what the Heart Believes.
God delineates...between WHAT calls on Him and WHO talks ABOUT Him.
God delineates...between A man calling on Christ, Confessing BELIEF IN OF his HEARTS THOUGHTS, in Christ, in Jesus, In God....and one who is Mindfully expressing himself.

What I would say about your example of someone you know Friend...is that “Friend”, was never Saved.
IF he were...he could NOT REJECT the Lord God.

Point being, preaching Gods word does not save men.
Believing in ones mind does not save men.
A SAVED MAN, becomes “converted”, BY the Power of God.
You do know...part of conversion,
IS a man confessing with his OLD Heart?
IS a man receiving a NEW HEART?

You are implying, the Friend received a New Heart FROM GOD...and somehow the man himself reversed a supernatural Act of God?
I do not believe that.

 

[MatthewG]

Okay, and thank you for your honesty.

 

[Taken]

Matthew 24:10-13
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Apostasia
Paul uses the Greek word apostasia which can be translated as “apostasy”, “falling away”, “betrayal” or “rebellion”

Apostasy is the same thing as falling from grace.

Salvation...is a gift from God.
All men do not receive Gods gift of Salvation at the SAME TIME.

Christ “IS” Gods gift of Salvation.

Any man WHO...believes, IN God, ‘OR’ IN Jesus, ‘OR’ IN Christ...
Shall be SAVED..... IF .... in the moment their BODY physically dies, they have “endured”...CONTINUED believing...and physically bodily die;
Believing IN God, or IN Jesus, or IN CHRST.
^ THEY SHALL BE SAVED.

Men are warned...about the pitfalls of Believing, enduring, BY THEIR OWN power, efforts..........BECAUSE of evil spirits, and wicked men constantly trying to gaslight men, trick them with cunning words and tempting men with favors, trinkets, money, position, power....IF...they will set aside their Beliefs and accept the temptation and follow evil and wickedness (which is presented as good)...

Any man WHO...heartfully believes IN Christ, IN Jesus, IN God...and Confess their Heartful belief.....WHILE ALIVE IN THEIR PHYSICAL BODY....
THEY, “receive their SALVATION THEN”....before their physical bodily death.

^ THAT is the whole big picture of Jesus’ Coming to Earth...Offering A WAY to be converted and receive assurance of Salvation NOW.

The difference is, Lots of men can Believe, in God or in Jesus or in Christ...and God WILL BE.......WITH THEM.....while they ARE believing....IF they stop....Gos WILL LEAVE THEM.
(OT is full of examples of men believing, men not, God with, then God not with them, then a repeat over and over...God with them, God not with them.

Men converted IN Christ, receiving Salvation now...God is not only WITH THEM FOREVER....but while their body remains physically alive ON earth...
God Spirit IS “IN” them...Keeping them “WITH” Him.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Okay, and thank you for your honesty.

You are welcome.
It can be confusing, because God CAN and DOES come and go being WITH men. Did in the OT and Did in the NT and Does to this day.

The cure, the fix, the remedy, the Offering...is Christ. Christ IS the power of God. Once Christ IS ... not only WITH....BUT “IN” a man...the power of a man trying to remain “WITH” God....transfers to the POWER of God Keeps the man WITH Him.

And HOW, that happens is ... By agreement of the man and Promise of God.
The man chooses to Confess....God fulfills His promise to Convert and Keep.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[MatthewG]

Taken,

Ive have heard that people on the street somewhere in La. Even in Church’s, and they will stop people and ask them if they have received Jesus and they will try to get them to confess and they are saved and that is one salvation they had that day. The same thing in church’s they will call people up to be saved not know nothing of scripture possibly to be saved and all they have to do is confess?

Is that all you really have to do is confess you believe in Jesus and from that moment on you are saved forever? There is nothing you have to do at all?

Because me and you both come from a different understanding which is fine, but just would like to clarify with you, that is literally all a person as to do is confess and they are saved forever? They do not have to do anything else at all? Such as seek for God and read the word and pray and have communication with God through prayer?

 

[TEXBOW]

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
I cannot understand why some are so bent on OSAS when Paul clearly says some shall depart from the faith. Some think falsely that in vacation Bible School back when they were 13 they said the sinner's prayer they are good to go no matter what type of life they live. Paul warns us over and over of examining ourselves, beware of false prophets, and doing things that will keep us from our inheritance. Jesus via John in Revelation 2 tells the Church in Ephesus he will remove the lampstand if they do not repent. They had lost their love of Christ and resorted to a works-based salvation.

You cannot depart from the faith that you never had. It is very clear you can depart from the faith and walk away with an unbelieving heart and into a lost state.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Matthew 24:10-13
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Apostasia
Paul uses the Greek word apostasia which can be translated as “apostasy”, “falling away”, “betrayal” or “rebellion”

Apostasy is the same thing as falling from grace.

You cannot depart from the faith that you never had. It is very clear you can depart from the faith and walk away with an unbelieving heart and into a lost state.

Apostasy
646 apostasía (from 868 /aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2476 /histémi, "stand") – properly, departure (implying desertion); apostasy – literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing."
Strong's Greek: 646. ἀποστασία (apostasia) -- defection, revolt

Apostasy means moving away from a previous standing, therefore an apostate is one who moved from a previous saved standing to a lost standing. The word "fall" carries the same idea of a change in standing. If I fall from a tree to the ground then my standing has changed from being in the tree to now on the ground. Yet for me to fall from the tree then logically I must first be in the tree to fall from it....I must first be in a saved standing in order to fall from it. A person who has never been saved/always lost cannot fall for he is already fallen, his standing has not changed...he was previously lost and still lost. As you posted "You cannot depart from the faith that you never had." Therefore the words "apostasy" and "fall" require one to be in the faith/saved before apostatizing/falling from, leaving that previous saved standing.
IF OSAS were true, it would render the words "apostasy" and "fall" meaningless.

 

[Curtis]

92830DED-D5FA-4F7C-BA98-33BB836555E7

• TEXBOW
• Nov 4, 2021
• 3

Seal

Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that, ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption

What Paul is actually referring to here is a commonly known transaction that is still used today. When I bought my house I made a down payment of earnest money, which sealed the deal, until the escrow goes through and the purchase is completed.

So that seals the deal, but it’s not an unbreakable deal, even though it’s been “sealed” The deal could still go through, or it could be broken. I could change my mind, or not qualify for the loan.

Paul actually talks about that very thing when he wrote that he hast to subjugate his flesh and control it daily, lest he become a castaway.

The word castaway in that passage is ADOKIMOS which means REPROBATE- to fail the test and be rejected by God.

Paul therefore wrote that he could fail the test and fail to qualify, and be rejected by God. This is just like failing to qualify for the loan, and the deal falling through, even though it’s been “sealed”.

Therefore, though these passages are used to try to prove once saved always saved, they prove nothing of the sort.

Seals are not unbreakable, they are not locks.

In Paul’s day, the only kinds of seals were the real estate transaction seal that I just mentioned, and the seals that were put on a scroll. The Bible talks about those kinds of seals in Revelation, when Jesus was the only one found worthy to open the scroll, and as he opens it, the seals had to be broken in order to open the scroll.

Those kind of seals are not unbreakable either - they are there as proof that while they remain unbroken, the contents of the scroll or document have not been tampered with, after a king or magistrate sealed the scroll.

Just like the seals we deal with every single day. All our food from the store comes sealed, and especially all our medicine is sealed, and those seals also indicate that the contents of the bottle or package has not been tampered with. If those seals were unbreakable, we couldn’t eat that food or take the medicine.

Therefore, though those in the once saved always saved camp try to use being sealed as a proof texts for unconditional eternal security, it is not proof at all.

Seals are not unbreakable - they are just proof that while they remain and are unbroken, the contents remain pure.

In our case it means the Holy Spirit is inside us - which is why the passage about being sealed also warns us not to grieve the Holy Spirit.

 

[michaelvpardo]

92830DED-D5FA-4F7C-BA98-33BB836555E7

• TEXBOW
• Nov 4, 2021
• 3

Seal

Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that, ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption

I'm pretty sure that the danger of grieving the Holy Spirit is in risking destruction of the bodily temple as in the case of Ananias and Saphira being struck down in the book of Acts.
I've seen some illogical conclusions in response, but some professing Christians seem to think that God reserves the right to capriciously change His mind and break His word.
The whole point of divine discipline is correction of disobedient or rebellious children, not their destruction, but Christians tend to have a weak understanding of holiness, and the Holy Spirit is, foremost, Holy.

19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s. 1 Corinthians 6:19-20

We are sealed "FOR" the day of redemption.
Do you think seals cannot be broken?

Scripture tells us that some seals can't be broken except by the Lord Jesus Christ (only He is worthy to break the seals associated with the judgments of mankind.) If you apply common reason to the spiritual, you'll reach an understanding, but its unlikely that such understanding will actually be correct.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Apostasy
646 apostasía (from 868 /aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2476 /histémi, "stand") – properly, departure (implying desertion); apostasy – literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing."
Strong's Greek: 646. ἀποστασία (apostasia) -- defection, revolt

Apostasy means moving away from a previous standing, therefore an apostate is one who moved from a previous saved standing to a lost standing. The word "fall" carries the same idea of a change in standing. If I fall from a tree to the ground then my standing has changed from being in the tree to now on the ground. Yet for me to fall from the tree then logically I must first be in the tree to fall from it....I must first be in a saved standing in order to fall from it. A person who has never been saved/always lost cannot fall for he is already fallen, his standing has not changed...he was previously lost and still lost. As you posted "You cannot depart from the faith that you never had." Therefore the words "apostasy" and "fall" require one to be in the faith/saved before apostatizing/falling from, leaving that previous saved standing.
IF OSAS were true, it would render the words "apostasy" and "fall" meaningless.

Your explanation, while reasonable, disagrees with biblical example.

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. 1 John 2:19

The cults maintain control over members with the threat of damnation through excommunication, but the New Testament teaches clearly that Christ's ministry extended to the church is reconciliation and redemption, not repudiation and condemnation.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

 

[michaelvpardo]

Anything dependent upon our actions can be lost, but that isn't the nature of the New Covenant and salvation, all the work of God by the will of God. Some people just believe in a very small, impotent, and capricious god.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Your explanation, while reasonable, disagrees with biblical example.

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. 1 John 2:19

The cults maintain control over members with the threat of damnation through excommunication, but the New Testament teaches clearly that Christ's ministry extended to the church is reconciliation and redemption, not repudiation and condemnation.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

If those whom John was speaking about were never saved, then the most the verse proves is a never saved person was never saved, it still does not prove a Christian cannot fall away. 2 Peter 2 provides proof a Christian can fall away.

I do not see where the idea of unconditional salvation is found in 2 Peter 3:9.

 

[michaelvpardo]

If those whom John was speaking about were never saved, then the most the verse proves is a never saved person was never saved, it still does not prove a Christian cannot fall away. 2 Peter 2 provides proof a Christian can fall away.

I do not see where the idea of unconditional salvation is found in 2 Peter 3:9.

It doesn't prove anything, just like your statements. You're entitled to your opinions, but your arguments are full of eisogetic interpretation, which in my own opinion, invalidates them all. You see, I'm entitled to my opinion as well. Thankfully, the power of God's gifts isn't dependent on opinion at all. You either have power by His Spirit, or you don't. You're either a Saint or an aint and opinions mean squat.

 

[TEXBOW]

1 Timothy 4:1 cannot be twisted. You can depart from the faith.
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

 

[Curtis]

Anything dependent upon our actions can be lost, but that isn't the nature of the New Covenant and salvation, all the work of God by the will of God. Some people just believe in a very small, impotent, and capricious god.

The old covenant was a marriage covenant with Israel, and God divorced her for spiritual adultery of sins in Jeremiah 3:8.

The new covenant is also a marriage covenant - we are the bride of Christ - and I guarantee you God hasn’t changed His mind about sins of His people being spiritual adultery- hence the many scriptures that warn Christians that living sinfully will keep them out of heaven.

God doesn’t promise to save us unconditionally. All the OSAS proof texts are out of context - and there are many scriptures that warn believers not to be deceived about this very thing.

It has nothing to do with Gods impotence or lack of power to save, or He wouldn’t have divorced Israel,His first elect bride, for their sins/spiritual adultery - but has everything to do with God requiring believers to live righteously instead of sinfully.

 

[Curtis]

1 Timothy 4:1 cannot be twisted. You can depart from the faith.
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

And OSAS is part of that deception.

What’s amazing is that Paul warns over and over to NOT be deceived about this very issue, yet OSAS remains the false belief of many.

Just one example of many:

Paul warned the brethren in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that living in the sin of drunkenness or adultery, etc, will keep them out of heaven.


In that passage, Paul warns some of the believers that they are defrauding their brethren, (which is stealing, being a thief) then warns them that stealing, and other sins, will keep them from heaven:


1Co 6:8 Nay, ye do wrong, and DEFRAUD and that your BRETHREN..


1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? BE NOT DECEIVED: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,


1Co 6:10 Nor THIEVES (such as those who DEFRAUD their brethren, verse 8) nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


Notice that in verse 11 Paul says that some of brethren used to do those things but stopped after salvation, but some of the other brethren were sinning by stealing from the others (by defrauding them), hence Paul’s warning.


Another warning by Paul, to the saints of God, about living a sinful lifestyle as a child of God:


Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;


Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh SAINTS.


Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.


Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath ANY inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.


Eph 5:6 Let no man DECEIVE you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the WRATH of God upon the children of disobedience.


Eph 5:7 Be not YE therefore partakers WITH them.

 

[michaelvpardo]

The old covenant was a marriage covenant with Israel, and God divorced her for spiritual adultery of sins in Jeremiah 3:8.

The new covenant is also a marriage covenant - we are the bride of Christ - and I guarantee you God hasn’t changed His mind about sins of His people being spiritual adultery- hence the many scriptures that warn Christians that living sinfully will keep them out of heaven.

God doesn’t promise to save us unconditionally. All the OSAS proof texts are out of context - and there are many scriptures that warn believers not to be deceived about this very thing.

It has nothing to do with Gods impotence or lack of power to save, or He wouldn’t have divorced Israel,His first elect bride, for their sins/spiritual adultery - but has everything to do with God requiring believers to live righteously instead of sinfully.

I suggest that you read what the old testament says of the new covenant, as well as the entire book of Hosea.
God hates sin because it harms us. We can grieve His Spirit, but that, because our sin harms us and others. It doesn't harm Him and only did so when He became a man in the person of His son. He bore it all on the cross, not some of it.
You might want to read the book of Galatians a bit as well.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. Galatians 3:21-23

There are no scriptural verses that propose anyone can loose their salvation and the Lord Himself said the exact opposite:

All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. John 6:37

Are you suggesting that Jesus was mistaken or lied ?
Maybe someone can pull a fast one on the God who knows what's in our heart and the end from the beginning.

What the Apostles do warn us of is self deceptions. We are reminded to examine ourselves to see if we're in the faith, and according to Paul, we can turn to a reliance upon ourselves for sanctification and in that manner fall from grace. Yet Paul didn't say that the Galatians had lost their salvation and there wouldn't be any point in writing that epistle if they did.
I don't use the expression once saved always saved though I know it to be true. People can clearly be deceived about themselves and can think they are something that they are not, but the saved were chosen for redemption from before the foundation of the world. Salvation is by election and the perseverance of the saints is the proof of God's election.
Anything that you earn can be taken from you, but salvation is a gift for those who believe. Why? Because belief comes from Him, faith from hearing His word.
How big is your God? How small are you?
It doesn’t go well for the children of pride, but wisdom is justified by her children.

 

[Curtis]

I suggest that you read what the old testament says of the new covenant, as well as the entire book of Hosea.
God hates sin because it harms us. We can grieve His Spirit, but that, because our sin harms us and others. It doesn't harm Him and only did so when He became a man in the person of His son. He bore it all on the cross, not some of it.
You might want to read the book of Galatians a bit as well.

How big is your God? How small are you?
It doesn’t go well for the children of pride, but wisdom is justified by her children.

You can spin it all you want - the New Testament is incredibly clear that OSAS.

To whit:

Romans 8 - refutes OSAS completely.


Romans 8:1- starts off with the fact that there’s no condemnation for those IN Christ Jesus.


Verse 4 makes clear that having no condemnation and being IN Christ, is conditional on not walking after the flesh, but after the spirit.


The fact that having no condemnation in verse 1 is dependent on not walking after the flesh, but after the spirit in verse 4, is so evident that the KJV translators added verse 4 to the end of verse 1, to make the passage more understandable:


Rom 8:1- There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.



Romans 8- then goes on to explain the consequences of deathif we let our flesh win the conflict between our Spirit and flesh:


Rom 8:5 - For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.


Rom 8:6 - For to be carnally minded is DEATH, but to be spiritually minded is LIFE and peace.


Rom 8:7 - Because the carnal mind is ENMITY against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Rom 8:8 - So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


In Galatians 5, Paul lists the works of the flesh, which DEFINES what is meant in Romans 8- about walking after the flesh, instead of after the spirit, and warns that committing those sins of the flesh will keep believers out of heaven:


Gal 5:16 - This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.


Gal 5:17 - For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


Gal 5:18 - But IF ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.


Gal 5:19 - Now the WORKS OF THE FLESH are manifest, which are these;Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


Gal 5:20 - Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,


Gal 5:21 - Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell YOU again, as I have also told you in time past, that they which DO such things shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God.


Romans 8- is therefore clear that having no condemnation is conditional on living righteously as a believer and walking spiritually and not sinfully, after the flesh, and that if we choose to walk after the flesh instead of after the spirit we will die SPIRITUALLY and will not enter the kingdom of heaven.


Romans 8- explains the consequences of death if we let the flesh win the conflict between our Spirit and flesh:


Rom 8:5 - For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.


Rom 8:6 - For to be carnally minded is DEATH, but to be spiritually minded is LIFE and peace.


Rom 8:7 - Because the carnal mind is ENMITY against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


Rom 8:8 - So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


Romans 8:6, above, is talking about spiritual death - not physical death - as proven by the Galatians 5 text just given, and confirmed by the story of the prodigal son, who died spiritually while he was out in the world sinning:


In the prodigal son story, the father represents God, the son represents believers.


He’s already a son when the story starts.


He leaves the father to live in sin


When he returns to the father in repentance, the father says: this is my son WHO WAS DEAD, but is now alive AGAIN, he WAS LOST, but now IS FOUND.


Luke 15:32- It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother *was dead*, and is *alive again*; and *was lost*, and *is found*.


He obviously wasn’t dead physically and resurrected.


How then was he dead?


He was dead in his sins.


Ephesians 2:1 - And you hath he quickened,who WERE DEAD in *trespasses and sins*


Thus the son was alive, left his Father to live a sinful life, became DEAD in his sins, then returned in repentance, and became alive AGAIN.


Therefore Romans 8- instead of proving unconditional eternal security, has a warning to the brethren not to live carnally, after the flesh, or they will die spiritually, as the prodigal Son did.


And Verse 8:7 of Romans warns us that believers having a carnal mind is ENMITY against God, meaning you actually become Gods ENEMY.


So does James:


James 4:4- Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is ENMITY with God? whosoever therefore will be a FRIEND OF THE WORLD is the ENEMY of God.


The verse above says sexual sins and being worldly, makes you Gods ENEMY.


The fact is that the correct exegesis of Romans 8- refutes, and does not teach, OSAS!



Romans 8- is therefore clear that having no condemnation is conditional on living righteously as a believer and walking spiritually and not sinfully, after the flesh, and that if we choose to walk after the flesh instead of after the spirit we will die SPIRITUALLY and will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

This is just some of the scripture that refutes OSAS.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

It doesn't prove anything, just like your statements. You're entitled to your opinions, but your arguments are full of eisogetic interpretation, which in my own opinion, invalidates them all. You see, I'm entitled to my opinion as well. Thankfully, the power of God's gifts isn't dependent on opinion at all. You either have power by His Spirit, or you don't. You're either a Saint or an aint and opinions mean squat.

Thank you for giving me your opinion but as you imply yourself, opinions are worthless and prove nothing as your opinion here proves nothing.

2 Peter 2 is not my opinion but Biblical truth.

 

[Robert Gwin]

92830DED-D5FA-4F7C-BA98-33BB836555E7

• TEXBOW
• Nov 4, 2021
• 3

Seal

Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that, ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption

Yes sir it can. Like you pointed out added with Mat 12:31,32 shows that an anointed one can lose favor indeed.