Can there be obedience where there is a lack of trust?

[VictoryinJesus]

Everybody loves Jesus, right? A man that reached out to a woman scorned. A man that touched the lepers and healed them. A man that wept. A man that held His silence in the face of mockers and scorners. A man of righteous judgement. A man that would never ask us to do the unthinkable. The inconceivable.

Our Christian counselor set before me. Her profession being to help a broken girl sort out the tangled mess inside her head. The biggest mess being: why would I turn to a God that promotes the oppression of women, and promotes abuse and slavery as if a person becomes nothing more than a piece of cattle? Why would I turn to this God that obviously placed my gender at the lowest place out of some sort of punish? I sat baffled as our female counselor quoted in every session: "perfect love cast out fear".

"What about the God of the Old Testament?" I asked her.
Her response being, "My advice, avoid the God of the Old Testament. Don't go there. I don't. Just focus on Jesus."

Just focus on Jesus. The tender, loving man that is our savior.
The truth is: the God of the Old Testament is our savior.
"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"

Hebrews 4:15
[15] For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

James 5:11
[11] Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Not pitiful in strength. But pitiful in being full-of-pity and tender mercy. This is the One true God of the Old Testament. They are One and the same.

Hebrews 1:2-3
[2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; [3] Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

There are some really hard truths in the Old Testament.

Zechariah 11:16-17 KJV
[16] For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces. [17] Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

Job 12:16
[16] With him is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his.

God raised the shepherd that would leave the flock and not set the prisoners free.
But He also raised the shepherd that would. 1 Peter 2:25 "For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls."

Now, I ask you since God raised the Shepherd that would leave and not feed the flock and also the Shepherd that would...which was God that gathered His sheep...Is God good?

Is it good that God "prepared" the crucifixion?

2 Timothy 3:16-17 says "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

That means all scripture even those really hard verses. We are all faced with a decision to make... Do we believe and trust that God is always good, even in the face of the unthinkable? Abraham trusted and believed that God is good. We can reason why Abraham did it, but still, when God told Abraham to go fetch the wood...Abraham went and got the wood. Abraham knew God was and IS always "good" even in the face of the unthinkable.

Genesis 22:2-13
[2] And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. [3] And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him. [4] Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off. [5] And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you. [6] And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together. [7] And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? [8] And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together. [9] And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood. [10] And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. [11] And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. [12] And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. [13] And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

Another act of obedience in the face of the unthinkable:

Genesis 21:10-11
[10] Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac. [11] And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.

Genesis 21:12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice, for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.

Abraham did not doubt God's goodness. Do you?
Do you believe God is good always, even in the face of the unthinkable?
There is no "monster" of the Old Testament, only our lack of understanding and trust that God is always good. Consider 1 Corinthians 3:18 and how it contradicts everything man and this world says, "Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise."

With God, for a man to be wise he must first become a fool.
Everybody loves Jesus.
It is God they hate.
Do we love and trust and believe that God is good, IN THE FACE of the unthinkable.
Would we gather the wood and place our son on the altar...
trusting God is good even when we may not understand.
Can there be obedience where there is a lack of trust?

 

[GodsGrace]

To BELIEVE means to trust.
To trust means to follow.
To follow means to obey.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

To BELIEVE means to trust.
To trust means to follow.
To follow means to obey.

Yes, but would you follow what you don't trust? Do you trust the God of the Old Testament? Is so, why? Are there any verses of the Old Testament you throw out because they don't line up with our perception? If so, why do you throw them out?

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, but would you follow what you don't trust? Do you trust the God of the Old Testament? Is so, why? Are there any verses of the Old Testament you throw out because they don't line up with our perception? If so, why do you throw them out?

Yes. There are verses in the O.T. I throw out.
Not because I don't like them, but because it is commonly accepted by scholars that God put many rules into our hearts but MAN contributed to them also.

IOW, God did not sit down at a computer and write the bible. Especially the O.T. He INSPIRED the bible. Once God revealed Himself to the Hebrews, they attributed everything that happened to them to God, whether or not it was actually God doing the action.

Now you ask for examples. Deuteronomy and Leviticus are full of examples. Don't boil meat in the mother's milk would be one.
Leviticus 23:14 would be another one. There are so many examples, I hesitate to go through them.

Next time you go through the O.T., keep this in mind and you'll understand this concept.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, but would you follow what you don't trust? Do you trust the God of the Old Testament? Is so, why? Are there any verses of the Old Testament you throw out because they don't line up with our perception? If so, why do you throw them out?

P.S. I trust everything Jesus said. More than what Paul said, if it could be said that there is a difference. I personally don't believe there is and I think Paul is very much misunderstood if people think he's preaching a different gospel from Jesus.

And if he WERE, then I'd listen to Jesus.

 

[Butterfly]

I do not understand everything about the Old Testament, but I do tend to look at the Old Testament through the eyes of a fallen world and its consequences. I have never felt that God placed women / slaves ect in the positions they would take, but merely revealed that this would happen as a natural unfolding of sin impacting the world and how humans would ultimately act and treat people. I may be wrong in my approach, but that's how I see it.
I do not understand all the violence and killing, often following instructions from God, but also recognise that cultures were different and I simply cannot understand the bigger picture.
I do trust God, and have to leave some of the unanswered questions with him - I cannot simply ignore the God of the Old Testament, but tend to see it as a history of an unfolding relationship between God and his people , and insights into the spiritual battle that unfolds in the world and how man often fights with himself.
Butterfly

 

[Helen]

@VictoryinJesus Wow, you put such a lot into the post..thank you!
One thing I love about you is that you write from the heart. :)

Yes indeed...you mentioned Abraham...known as The Father Of Faith.
Being told to kill his son..the very son that God visited him and had promised to him....The son he and Sarah had waited for 25 years ...now a command to go and sacrifice the lad. That is a wow!!

Abraham was well accustomed to human sacrifices because he grew up with it in Ur of the Chaldees. He may have believed that 'this god' was the same as the gods back in Ur.
Or, because he had had conversations with this God, he trusted that when God told him that through this same lad Abraham's seed, he would have many offspring uncountable as the sand of the sea ...Abraham believed Him!
*Abraham had already told his men at the bottom of the hill " wait here, and I and the lad will go hither and worship and we will return to you again."
He had been told to sacrifice Issac but also believed that God had a plan..
so, in faith he said- "I and the lad will return.."
So, in all things re the OT..it brings us back to faith.
Faith in what we hear from God.

As you know, I get a lot of flack because I do not put my confidence in man.
Not any man in a pulpit , not any book writer, not any dictionary, not in any commentaries... Oh I will listen to them all...and learn some things from them all...but I will not put confidence and trust in any. Our walk of faith must be our walk of faith....and "Faith comes from hearing and hearing by the word of God." ( direct from Him or from His written word) the 53 years has taught me this. I have believed too many, I have trusted too many people, been deceived, yet in all that, it was good because though unpleasant, God was teaching me to listen to Him.
Do I understand the God of the OT ...no way!
Do I trust God ..YES... I trust enough to know that He has an answer for us, even about the OT happenings...one day we will understand.

Obviously Abraham 'saw God heart'...obviously Moses saw God's heart...Moses even reminded God to His face that it was Him who had called them out of Egypt...therefore, like it or not, He was the father of a stupid rebellious nation..etc. David also obviously saw God's heart...and many others...they saw and understood something about God that we in our age don't.
But for me , I had a couple of years when God said to me over and over.."Can you trust my heart even if you can't trust or understand my ways?"
Once I could yield and finally let go and trust His heart...all the lack of understanding everything and the need to understand things just melted away.
Sorry, got a bit rambling there! :)

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Yes. There are verses in the O.T. I throw out.
Not because I don't like them, but because it is commonly accepted by scholars that God put many rules into our hearts but MAN contributed to them also.

IOW, God did not sit down at a computer and write the bible. Especially the O.T. He INSPIRED the bible. Once God revealed Himself to the Hebrews, they attributed everything that happened to them to God, whether or not it was actually God doing the action.

Now you ask for examples. Deuteronomy and Leviticus are full of examples. Don't boil meat in the mother's milk would be one.
Leviticus 23:14 would be another one. There are so many examples, I hesitate to go through them.

Next time you go through the O.T., keep this in mind and you'll understand this concept.

You may be right. In no way am I claiming you are not. My only goal is to encourage you even closer to God then you already are, even if I am the one that ends up being the one encouraged closer by you. Do not seethe a kid in his mother's milk seems important since it is in His word three times. By mistake? Maybe.

Deuteronomy 14:20-21
[20] But of all clean fowls ye may eat. [21] Ye shall not eat of any thing that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

"You shall not eat anything that dieth of itself" ...Jesus did that. He laid down His own life.

That you may give the meat to the stranger in your gate that he may eat, or you may sell it to the alien. Speaks of HIS flesh given to the strangers and aliens.

Seethe: "to ripen"
Hebrew: בּשׁל
Transliteration: bâshal
Pronunciation: baw-shal'
Definition: A primitive root; properly to boilup; hence to be done in cooking; figuratively to ripen: - {bake} {boil} bring {forth} is {ripe} {roast} {seethe} sod (be sodden).
KJV Usage: seethe (10x), boil (6x), sod (6x), bake (2x), ripe (2x), roast (2x).

Where do we get "milk" from the Spirit of God. Where do we get meat. Is it possible God commanded them not to do something in the holding off the "rippen" "seething" of a kid in its mother's milk because the act was reserved for a special purpose: prophetic of Jesus Christ "seethed" in "milk" the Spirit.

Still want to throw it out, that is your choice.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

He had been told to sacrifice Issac but also believed that God had a plan..

That is what I was attempting to say! Staring into something we don't understand, yet trusting in God's plan. Trusting His plan is good.

 

[101G]

P.S. I trust everything Jesus said. More than what Paul said, if it could be said that there is a difference. I personally don't believe there is and I think Paul is very much misunderstood if people think he's preaching a different gospel from Jesus.

And if he WERE, then I'd listen to Jesus.

GINOLJC, to all.
This the core of many misconceptions. you are correct. many men "THINK" instead of believing. as BG aka AG said,

*Abraham had already told his men at the bottom of the hill " wait here, and I and the lad will go hither and worship and we will return to you again."

didn't God just tell Abraham to kill his son, and he said, "WE" will return. did Abraham know something we don't know? NO, he TRUSTED God. did not the prophet Samuel pick up on that. "OBEDIENCE" is better that SACRIFICE. was not Abraham going to make a sacrifice, but God had something BETTER. that's trusting. have we ever been in a situation, and it looked bad, but came out BETTER than we thought. I know I have, and thank God for the victory.

I understand what the OP (VJ) is saying, Just as the apostle Paul expressed it best. Ephesians 4:1 "I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called".

Our problem is that we are always attempting a jail break. see, we need to give up, or as the old folk used to say "sell out" to the Lord.

once one sell out to the Lord, then one will trust in obedience.

@GG, the apostle Paul is preaching and teaching the same thing as the Lord Jesus. He might use a few words that are different but is in context with the word of God. the apostle Peter admitted that. 2 Peter 3:15 & 16 "And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction".

I suggest you read those verses again especially verse 16. I assure you the apostle Paul is 100% saying what the Lord Jesus says. understand, the Lord Jesus gave unto him a transition message, even as said other apostle, as Peter didn't fully understand all his saying, but peter called him BROTHER, as a matter of fact, beloved BROTHER. that says something, he was preaching and teaching the truth. yes some didn't understand, but as the apostle said, 2 Corinthians 4:3 "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost". this is why web sites like this one is on the web so that brothers and sister like us are NOT LOST, or become LOST. something is going to be said to help us some where, either now or later.

even today, I myself have to sit down with pen and paper and dissect what the apostle is speaking about on a subject. and sometimes I have to go word by word, instead scripture by scripture. because so much might be in just one word, as with our Lord and Saviour Jesus the Christ when he spoke. so you can trust the apostle to the Gentiles, our BROTHER, our beloved brother Paul.

PCY.

 

[Helen]

GINOLJC, to all.
This the core of many misconceptions. you are correct. many men "THINK" instead of believing. as BG aka AG said,

didn't God just tell Abraham to kill his son, and he said, "WE" will return. did Abraham know something we don't know? NO, he TRUSTED God. did not the prophet Samuel pick up on that. "OBEDIENCE" is better that SACRIFICE. was not Abraham going to make a sacrifice, but God had something BETTER. that's trusting. have we ever been in a situation, and it looked bad, but came out BETTER than we thought. I know I have, and thank God for the victory.

I understand what the OP (VJ) is saying, Just as the apostle Paul expressed it best. Ephesians 4:1 "I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called".

Our problem is that we are always attempting a jail break. see, we need to give up, or as the old folk used to say "sell out" to the Lord.

once one sell out to the Lord, then one will trust in obedience.

@GG, the apostle Paul is preaching and teaching the same thing as the Lord Jesus. He might use a few words that are different but is in context with the word of God. the apostle Peter admitted that. 2 Peter 3:15 & 16 "And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction".

I suggest you read those verses again especially verse 16. I assure you the apostle Paul is 100% saying what the Lord Jesus says. understand, the Lord Jesus gave unto him a transition message, even as said other apostle, as Peter didn't fully understand all his saying, but peter called him BROTHER, as a matter of fact, beloved BROTHER. that says something, he was preaching and teaching the truth. yes some didn't understand, but as the apostle said, 2 Corinthians 4:3 "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost". this is why web sites like this one is on the web so that brothers and sister like us are NOT LOST, or become LOST. something is going to be said to help us some where, either now or later.

even today, I myself have to sit down with pen and paper and dissect what the apostle is speaking about on a subject. and sometimes I have to go word by word, instead scripture by scripture. because so much might be in just one word, as with our Lord and Saviour Jesus the Christ when he spoke. so you can trust the apostle to the Gentiles, our BROTHER, our beloved brother Paul.

PCY.

By your post here, it looks like maybe I misunderstood what the OP was saying...so I better go back and re-read her post again!!!

 

[101G]

By your post here, it looks like maybe I misunderstood what the OP was saying...so I better go back and re-read her post again!!!

You are ok, I was just responding to what GG said. Faith to trust comes from hearing, the word of God.

PCY.

 

[GodsGrace]

GINOLJC, to all.
This the core of many misconceptions. you are correct. many men "THINK" instead of believing. as BG aka AG said,

didn't God just tell Abraham to kill his son, and he said, "WE" will return. did Abraham know something we don't know? NO, he TRUSTED God. did not the prophet Samuel pick up on that. "OBEDIENCE" is better that SACRIFICE. was not Abraham going to make a sacrifice, but God had something BETTER. that's trusting. have we ever been in a situation, and it looked bad, but came out BETTER than we thought. I know I have, and thank God for the victory.

I understand what the OP (VJ) is saying, Just as the apostle Paul expressed it best. Ephesians 4:1 "I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called".

Our problem is that we are always attempting a jail break. see, we need to give up, or as the old folk used to say "sell out" to the Lord.

once one sell out to the Lord, then one will trust in obedience.

@GG, the apostle Paul is preaching and teaching the same thing as the Lord Jesus. He might use a few words that are different but is in context with the word of God. the apostle Peter admitted that. 2 Peter 3:15 & 16 "And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction".

I suggest you read those verses again especially verse 16. I assure you the apostle Paul is 100% saying what the Lord Jesus says. understand, the Lord Jesus gave unto him a transition message, even as said other apostle, as Peter didn't fully understand all his saying, but peter called him BROTHER, as a matter of fact, beloved BROTHER. that says something, he was preaching and teaching the truth. yes some didn't understand, but as the apostle said, 2 Corinthians 4:3 "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost". this is why web sites like this one is on the web so that brothers and sister like us are NOT LOST, or become LOST. something is going to be said to help us some where, either now or later.

even today, I myself have to sit down with pen and paper and dissect what the apostle is speaking about on a subject. and sometimes I have to go word by word, instead scripture by scripture. because so much might be in just one word, as with our Lord and Saviour Jesus the Christ when he spoke. so you can trust the apostle to the Gentiles, our BROTHER, our beloved brother Paul.

PCY.

You might have misunderstood me.
I said I believe Paul is in agreement with Jesus.
Jesus said we are to DO to remain in the Kingdom after initial salvation...
Paul exhorts us in many verses to DO in order to be worthy of our calling, as you have said.

I merely ended by saying that if there WERE a difference between them, I'd choose to listen to Jesus. Some say Paul is of Grace and Jesus is of Works and that these are two different concepts because Jesus was of the O.T. and Paul made the theological and soterioligical understandings of the N.T.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Everybody loves Jesus, right?

Can there be obedience where there is a lack of trust?

No. Jesus' own brothers initially rejected Him and the same people who cried out Hosanas to Him, cried out crucify Him in front of Pilate. He remains an object of hatred by the majority of the world's population.
Trust is a learned behavior, but faith comes by hearing the word of God. Gideon is a prime example of learning trust. With God all things are possible.

 

[101G]

You might have misunderstood me.
I said I believe Paul is in agreement with Jesus.
Jesus said we are to DO to remain in the Kingdom after initial salvation...
Paul exhorts us in many verses to DO in order to be worthy of our calling, as you have said.

I merely ended by saying that if there WERE a difference between them, I'd choose to listen to Jesus. Some say Paul is of Grace and Jesus is of Works and that these are two different concepts because Jesus was of the O.T. and Paul made the theological and soterioligical understandings of the N.T.

I agreed with U on that, I read it. it was not for U, but to those who question Paul's teaching. you are ok.

PCY.

 

[Truth]

GINOLJC, to all.
This the core of many misconceptions. you are correct. many men "THINK" instead of believing. as BG aka AG said,

didn't God just tell Abraham to kill his son, and he said, "WE" will return. did Abraham know something we don't know? NO, he TRUSTED God. did not the prophet Samuel pick up on that. "OBEDIENCE" is better that SACRIFICE. was not Abraham going to make a sacrifice, but God had something BETTER. that's trusting. have we ever been in a situation, and it looked bad, but came out BETTER than we thought. I know I have, and thank God for the victory.

I understand what the OP (VJ) is saying, Just as the apostle Paul expressed it best. Ephesians 4:1 "I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called".

Our problem is that we are always attempting a jail break. see, we need to give up, or as the old folk used to say "sell out" to the Lord.

once one sell out to the Lord, then one will trust in obedience.

@GG, the apostle Paul is preaching and teaching the same thing as the Lord Jesus. He might use a few words that are different but is in context with the word of God. the apostle Peter admitted that. 2 Peter 3:15 & 16 "And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction".

I suggest you read those verses again especially verse 16. I assure you the apostle Paul is 100% saying what the Lord Jesus says. understand, the Lord Jesus gave unto him a transition message, even as said other apostle, as Peter didn't fully understand all his saying, but peter called him BROTHER, as a matter of fact, beloved BROTHER. that says something, he was preaching and teaching the truth. yes some didn't understand, but as the apostle said, 2 Corinthians 4:3 "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost". this is why web sites like this one is on the web so that brothers and sister like us are NOT LOST, or become LOST. something is going to be said to help us some where, either now or later.

even today, I myself have to sit down with pen and paper and dissect what the apostle is speaking about on a subject. and sometimes I have to go word by word, instead scripture by scripture. because so much might be in just one word, as with our Lord and Saviour Jesus the Christ when he spoke. so you can trust the apostle to the Gentiles, our BROTHER, our beloved brother Paul.

PCY.

Very well put, Paul was a Pharisees of Pharisee's, He was more dedicated than any of His Peer's, Paul was a walking, talking Scripture Scroll, so some times Paul would Quote OT Scripture, and there were many that were unlearned, and unstable about those Scripture's, so they would twist them to their own destruction. And with all the Scripture's memorized, who else to be the Apostle to the Gentiles.

 

[101G]

No. Jesus' own brothers initially rejected Him and the same people who cried out Hosanas to Him, cried out crucify Him in front of Pilate. He remains an object of hatred by the majority of the world's population.
Trust is a learned behavior, but faith comes by hearing the word of God. Gideon is a prime example of learning trust. With God all things are possible.

Trust come from understanding. example if someone put a chair in front of you and say you can sit down. would you have to learn them before sitting down?. no.

PCY.

 

[Truth]

You might have misunderstood me.
I said I believe Paul is in agreement with Jesus.
Jesus said we are to DO to remain in the Kingdom after initial salvation...
Paul exhorts us in many verses to DO in order to be worthy of our calling, as you have said.

I merely ended by saying that if there WERE a difference between them, I'd choose to listen to Jesus. Some say Paul is of Grace and Jesus is of Works and that these are two different concepts because Jesus was of the O.T. and Paul made the theological and soterioligical understandings of the N.T.

Paul was truly the Apostle to the Gentile, and He taught the Truth within the parameters of the Gospel. But as you say!! The words of Our Savior should Take Precedence, For there is only One Master, the rest including us are Servants!

 

[Helen]

I often wonder why people can't believe that Paul got his revelation from anyone else but Jesus!!!
He was the ambassador of Christ. Here in Christ's stead...the representative of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Trust come from understanding. example if someone put a chair in front of you and say you can sit down. would you have to learn them before sitting down?. no.

PCY.

What if the legs were sawed through by 99%? Trust is a learned experience. If your parents dropped you frequently as a child would you trust them to pick you up? People equate trust with faith, but in reality trust follows faith and must be learned.