CAN WE FALL AWAY ?

[GodsGrace]

And that's what sanctification and discipline do, that is their purpose. Are you denying the power of God?

I said that every letter tells us how we are to comport ourselves as "good" Christians:
Romans 13:8-13
1 Corinthians 5:9-12
2 Corinthians 13:10-11
Galatians 5:17-21
Ephesians 5:1-6
etc etc

This is precisely because it's possible to fall away.
See 1 Corinthians 6:9. Paul tells the Corinthians that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God. In 5:9 Paul says not even to associate with immoral persons. It's not enough to just be saved, we must also live the life of a saved person. Why do you ask me about the power of God? He gave us the Holy Spirit, what more could He do than what He has done?

Also, you're putting the cart before the horse.
Sanctification does not create a good life style.
A good life style creates sanctification.
Sanctification is a life-long walk with God wherein we allow the Holy Spirit to work in us to make our life better. (we don't make our life better so the Holy Spirit could work with us).

It means to quench the spirit, not the seed GG.

I disagree. Being hardened by sin quenches the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit cannot be happy if we're living a life of sin such that we are hardened by it.

Could you please provide scrpture for the "seed"? I don't really know what you're referring to.

Meaning that we are clean not by our works, but by His blood. If you are covered under His blood you are considered righteous by what He did on the cross for you. Overcoming is through belief, not works. Being "born of God" is a permanent condition of teh heart.

I agree with the above. But I hear too much these days about how we could live as we want to with no worries BECAUSE we're covered by the blood. Christ's blood has freed us from bondage to the sinful nature...we still have to live a life worthy of God's love for us, otherwise we trample His blood underfoot.
Hebrews 10:29

1 John 5:4-5 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Rev 21:27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Agreed. I just want to say that the name can be erased from the Book of Life.
Revelation 3:5

This is figurative language describing His anger towards the corporate church, not the individual conception of the seed in each person.

Of course it's figurative language!
BUT, just as Jesus does not like lukewarm churches, He also does not care for lukewarm persons who cannot make a commitment.
Mathew 5:37 Although this is referring to oaths, we can say that our YES to anything should be a sure YES, as is confirmed in
Luke 14:28-31 We should count the cost and then proceed sure of ourselves and our commitment to God.
Luke 9:62

Matt 7:15-23 is referring to those that try to enter the kingdom through works salvation, Matt 7:22. In Matt 7:15, the sheep are believers in Christ and the wolves are nonbelievers... https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/sheep-wolves-illustration.26291/

Jesus does not mention what you speak of above.
HE said that trees that do not bear good fruit will be cut down and burned.
Mathew 7:19

HE said that only those who do THE WILL of the Father will enter into heaven.
Mathew 7:21

HE said that those who PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS will be told to depart from Him.
Mathew 7:23

No talk of being saved or not. Jesus really never spoke of salvation; maybe 3 or 4 times. He did speak many times of doing the Father's will, of hearing His voice and of following Him.

That's good you're doing that, but "behaving or not behaving" affects sanctification and discipline. It does not remove the seed of salvation from the believer. You're trying to remove the seed after the seal has been placed on a believer, and it's just not biblical. Eph 1:13-14.

What seed?
What seal?

THIS is what JESUS said:
John 5:28-29
28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deedsto a resurrection of judgment."

And belief in the death, burial, resurrection only comes once.

Absolutely. One who does not believe in the above, cannot rightly call himself a Christian.

When it's in the present tense, the apostle is telling you to accept Christ now. We are free to accept Christ prior to our death.

The word BELIEVE is always in the present tense because we must be believers when we die. Non-believers do not go to be with God.
John 3:16

I agree that we could accept Christ at any time till just before death.

Let me know if you see the contradiction (of non-osas) in the Synoptic Gospels.

Matt 13:21 (does not use the word believe) (it uses trouble/persecution)
Mark 4:17 (does not use the word believe) (it uses trouble/persecution)
Luke 8:13 (uses the word believe) (aphistémi/depart)
Rom 8:35, 38-39 (nothing can separate us, even trouble/persecution)
1 Tim 4:1 ( aphistémi/depart)

Matt 13:21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Mark 4:17 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Luke 8:13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

Rom 8:35, 38-39 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Tim 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

Luke 8:13 / Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - which for a while believe: their faith is a temporary one, like that of Simon Magus; which shows it is not true faith; for that is an abiding grace, Christ, who is the author, is the finisher of it, and prays for it, that it fail not. The Persic version renders it, "in the time of hearing they have faith"; and such sort of hearers there are, who, whilst they are hearing, assent to what they hear, but when they are gone, either forget it, or, falling into bad company, are prevailed upon to doubt of it, and disbelieve it. The Arabic version renders it, "they believe for a small time"; their faith do not continue long, nor their profession of it, both are soon dropped:

God bless

I don't accept Gill's Exposition. Actually, I don't use commentaries much, hardly ever. The bible explains itself...it's a simple book to understand if you read all of it and accept it as a whole thought. It also never contradicts itself...if there seems to be a contradiction, we should look into it. Also, very clear scripture is always used as opposed to unclear scripture. JESUS plainly and clearly said in Luke 8 that the faith of the person was TEMPORARY. No need to look any further than what JESUS said. Gill has an ax to grind so I can't go by what HE says.

Mathew 13:21
The ROOT is not firm and is only temporary. The WORD was received with joy but the receiving of it was only temporary. Jesus said in Luke THEY BELIEVE FOR A WHILE. We must accept what Jesus said as an explanation and not add to the word of God. You have to change it because you believe in eternal security, but e.s. is not biblical and ends up causing problems with exegesis.

Romans 8
This is speaking about firmly rooted believers. If a believer is firmly rooted nothing can take him away from God, not even persecution.j

IOW, the persecution ITSELF will not deter belief, but what can take a person away from God is HIMSELF. He can always decide that he no longer has faith in God or believes in God ... Nothing can take us out of the hand of God...but, as they say...we can walk out of it on our own. It could be due to persecution, sickness, doubt...

Philippians 3:9-21

Paul does not have a righteousness of his own, but in Christ.
If one abandons the faith, he no longer has this righteousness.

Paul must press onward, not having as yet attained his goal, the resurrection from the dead. THIS is the goal, not rewards (which there are also in heaven) but this all important goal of life eternal, and for this Paul exhorts us to a life worthy of
God, to achieve this goal.

 

[GodsGrace]

um.... I'm Presbyterian.... He's a Nonconformist. Yeah, um that's not true. In fact, I purposely selected a minister who was NOT of my denomination.



What happens to those heathen in Africa?


See! We're LEARNING!!! Yes, whomever God will say, he will.


Oh, now this is quite simple. When it boils down to it who is responsible for you coming to faith God or you? Who makes the final call?

LOL
Nothing to learn from you MJ.
Why worry about souls in Africa when you're not even worried about souls right here in the US, Canada, Europe, or anywhere where there are many churches?
Anyway, God will decide who is to be saved and who is to be tormented in hell forever.

Some love
Some grace

John 3:16 is all one needs to prove your faith false.
It's simple and easy to understand.
But, yeah, let's make it difficult and confuse everybody.
Happily, not everyone can be confused.

 

[GodsGrace]

um.... I'm Presbyterian.... He's a Nonconformist. Yeah, um that's not true. In fact, I purposely selected a minister who was NOT of my denomination.



What happens to those heathen in Africa?


See! We're LEARNING!!! Yes, whomever God will say, he will.


Oh, now this is quite simple. When it boils down to it who is responsible for you coming to faith God or you? Who makes the final call?

I make the final call.
I believe in free will, which you don't.
Your God makes you THINK you have free will because He conforms it to what HE wants.

I am truly free. Free to love Him or free not to love Him.
How satisfying would a woman's love be for you if YOU made her love you?
Not very. Imagine for GOD. He truly wants us to be free.

Are we made in the image of God?
Does HE have free will?
Did Adam and Eve have free will?
When was it taken away?

How do you explain all the choices the bible gives us?
Explain Joshua 24:15

Man had other shepherds.
Ezekiel 34:5
God decides to search them out for Himself.
Ezekiel 34:11

Did God make a mistake? He allowed other shepherds to care for His sheep and THEN He realized what a mistake He had made by trusting them?
What kind of a sovereign God is that? He had to adjust His eternal plan?

Could you explain this too while you're at it?

 

[Nancy]

GOD understands we are all sinners...

Upon belief - we are forgiven

In our hearts we tell GOD we are sorry.........

GOD knows that no one is perfect !

Ahhh, sweet simplicity! Refreshing! ♥

 

[Nancy]

LOL
Nothing to learn from you MJ.
Why worry about souls in Africa when you're not even worried about souls right here in the US, Canada, Europe, or anywhere where there are many churches?
Anyway, God will decide who is to be saved and who is to be tormented in hell forever.

Some love
Some grace

John 3:16 is all one needs to prove your faith false.
It's simple and easy to understand.
But, yeah, let's make it difficult and confuse everybody.
Happily, not everyone can be confused.

♥♥♥ Yep!

 

[Taken]

Thanks for another LONG-WINDED, albeit, empty response.

I am already well aware my responses do not resonate with an empty heart!

YOUR

understanding that once a man is converted, he is sentenced to en eternity with the Lord - whether he wants to remain or not. As I have shown - this is anti-Biblical nonsense.

I was not speaking of "A person". I was SPECIFICALLY SPEAKING OF A CONVERTED Person. And you shared and further reveal you have no concept of the Difference.

And while YOU may believe "it is a Sentence" for a man TO ELECT God and ELECT TO BECOME Converted. Scripture says Otherwise, and Converted Men testify Otherwise, to experiencing a Conversion is a JOY and Gladness.

A person has the choice to stay or leave - and has that choice right up to the time he leaves this world.

A person? Again, you speak in irrelevant vagueness.

The FACT is AN UNCONVERTED Person can WAVER, believing, not believing, believing, not believing.....as you have been told umpteen times. As Scripture spends a Great deal of time speaking to men WHO ARE DEPENDING ON THEIR OWN POWER TO BE or REMAIN IN Belief.

Ding, ding, ding.....MEN FAIL!!

Ding, ding, ding.....Jesus came with a NEW WAY, for men to BE KEPT IN FAITH-FULLNESS to God and Christ......Hello...CONVERSION!!
Hello.....Gods INDWELLING POWER!

(That you call False and instead teach the mans power supersedes Gods INDWELLING POWER.)<----

A man SUBMITS TO A CONVERSION, BY THE THOUGHTS OF HIS HEART.....

And apparently unbeknownst to you, although you have been repeatedly told and shown...

Conversion INCLUDES the circumcision of the mans Heart......THE OLD IS CUT OFF.....

Yet you continue teach.....the OLD HEART NO LONGER IN THE NEW MAN....CAN "change it's decision" and Reject God!!!

It's DEAD man!! A new heart is IN the new creature. Why keep teaching such anti-biblical nonsense, that the OLD DEAD HEART can change and reject God? That is not Spiritual, NOR does it make a lick of Common sense, that SOMETHING CUT OFF and DEAD is making Choices!

Just because God is faithful to HIS promises - doesn't mean that MEN are.

Try reading the GOOD NEWS....It is the Lords INDWELLING SPIRIT that does the KEEPING of a Converted mans Faithfulness to the Lord God!!

You are free to jump off of that rescue boat ANY time you wish - without ANYBODY forcing you to stay on.

You have got to be kidding.....Reject what the Lord has given me and keeps for me, and jump off and be your brother in DROWNING!
LOL...think again...No Way!

The following verses prove this (Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

You can list a hundred verses and call them proof and still be in error.

You being off on another side bar, AGAIN does not reveal the facts of these supposed men you claim were Converted, then rejected The Lord......WHICH WOULD MEAN....their old DEAD circumcised heart was revived and Changed it's election.....LOL

 

[Nancy]

I make the final call.
I believe in free will, which you don't.
Your God makes you THINK you have free will because He conforms it to what HE wants.

I am truly free. Free to love Him or free not to love Him.
How satisfying would a woman's love be for you if YOU made her love you?
Not very. Imagine for GOD. He truly wants us to be free.

Are we made in the image of God?
Does HE have free will?
Did Adam and Eve have free will?
When was it taken away?

How do you explain all the choices the bible gives us?
Explain Joshua 24:15

Man had other shepherds.
Ezekiel 34:5
God decides to search them out for Himself.
Ezekiel 34:11

Did God make a mistake? He allowed other shepherds to care for His sheep and THEN He realized what a mistake He had made by trusting them?
What kind of a sovereign God is that? He had to adjust His eternal plan?

Could you explain this too while you're at it?

God's GIFT of salvation is a gift---how does one receive a gift? They CHOOSE to accept it graciously, or they can CHOOSE to refuse it...free will is the only thing that makes sense to me too GG. Great post!

 

[GodsGrace]

God's GIFT of salvation is a gift---how does one receive a gift? They CHOOSE to accept it graciously, or they can CHOOSE to refuse it...free will is the only thing that makes sense to me too GG. Great post!

I believe the bible teaches that we could refuse that gift at any time.
Some here believe that once we accept the gift we can never give it back.
So does God want a really nasty and mad person in His Kingdom?
They're mad an nasty because they want to leave but can't?
Or maybe He MAKES them never want to leave? That's just as bad...that would take away man's free will.

I agree with @Rollo Tamasi that it's not easy to just up and leave God after one has felt His love for them. We've discussed this many times. I agree with this, I believe it's difficult to leave God...but is it impossible??

 

[Nancy]

I believe the bible teaches that we could refuse that gift at any time.
Some here believe that once we accept the gift we can never give it back.
So does God want a really nasty and mad person in His Kingdom?
They're mad an nasty because they want to leave but can't?
Or maybe He MAKES them never want to leave? That's just as bad...that would take away man's free will.

I agree with @Rollo Tamasi that it's not easy to just up and leave God after one has felt His love for them. We've discussed this many times. I agree with this, I believe it's difficult to leave God...but is it impossible??

"I believe it's difficult to leave God...but is it impossible??" to.<---Not at all impossible...I walked away for almost 20 years...but I never stopped hearing His call, I fought Him. But finally realized He did not walk away from me, but I sure did walk away from Him...far away. He allowed me to wallow in my sin so as to show me there is nothing but emptiness and lies without Him...Praise His Name! So happy He did not allow me to stay in the darkness I put myself in. The important thing is, that He showed me truth at one time, I did not like that truth (only a certain part that I struggled mightily over) so, feeling I could NEVER live, or even be welcome back to Him...I just did my own thing for quite awhile. He never, ever left my thoughts-I did not believe that His Grace was sufficient to take me through these certain struggles. Long short---HE never stopped calling me...after those years in the dessert, He brought me to my face, literally...that was like almost 5 years ago now...since He opened my eyes like NEVER before...I have not looked back and will continue to fight the good fight and run the race He has set before me! Amen sister.

 

[GodsGrace]

"I believe it's difficult to leave God...but is it impossible??" to.<---Not at all impossible...I walked away for almost 20 years...but I never stopped hearing His call, I fought Him. But finally realized He did not walk away from me, but I sure did walk away from Him...far away. He allowed me to wallow in my sin so as to show me there is nothing but emptiness and lies without Him...Praise His Name! So happy He did not allow me to stay in the darkness I put myself in. The important thing is, that He showed me truth at one time, I did not like that truth (only a certain part that I struggled mightily over) so, feeling I could NEVER live, or even be welcome back to Him...I just did my own thing for quite awhile. He never, ever left my thoughts-I did not believe that His Grace was sufficient to take me through these certain struggles. Long short---HE never stopped calling me...after those years in the dessert, He brought me to my face, literally...that was like almost 5 years ago now...since He opened my eyes like NEVER before...I have not looked back and will continue to fight the good fight and run the race He has set before me! Amen sister.

Great testimony Nancy!
God will always take us back.
Our God is a loving and merciful God.
He deserves all our love and commitment.
Praise the name of Jesus.

 

[Nancy]

Great testimony Nancy!
God will always take us back.
Our God is a loving and merciful God.
He deserves all our love and commitment.
Praise the name of Jesus.

Indeed gg---
Matthew 18:21-22 King James Version (KJV)
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
If He expects us to do this, would He Himself not do even more? ♥

 

[GodsGrace]

Indeed gg---
Matthew 18:21-22 King James Version (KJV)
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
If He expects us to do this, would He Himself not do even more? ♥

Amen.
Great thought and verse.

 

[Taken]

God's GIFT of salvation is a gift---how does one receive a gift? They CHOOSE to accept it graciously, or they can CHOOSE to refuse it...free will is the only thing that makes sense to me too GG. Great post!

Hi Nancy ~
I think there was a bit of a dilemma going on in some responses to you, regarding CHOOSING, and effecting Salvation.

Bottom line is the Lord PROVIDES all men the OPTION to become Saved. His Provisions are BY Him Calling a man....

The Lord is not using the phone, or texting or whispering in a mans ear.....He has provided His Word for all to Hear, and it is the man WHO chooses to hear, or not.

And it is the man who chooses to continue hearing, to believe what he hears....or not.

And it is the man who chooses to Call on the Lord and Confess his sins, his repentance, and his "FREEWILL" Choice to become Converted....or not.

Some are saying AFTER a Conversion OCCURS, a man CAN REJECT God....which is FALSE.

Their basis is they maintain their FREEWILL.

The FACT IS, they EXERCISED THEIR FREEWILL to Become Converted!

What exactly can such a man then CHANGE?
His MIND? They never say, but the implication is there.

Problem with Changing their MIND, is IT IS NEVER the thoughts of a mans MIND that a man becomes Converted!
The Freewill Confession to the Lord is Alwasy from the thoughts of the HEART!

So are some teaching, the Freewill thoughts of a mans HEART can be Changed AFTER a Conversion?

How can that BE? Part of the Conversion is the man Having his HEART Circumcised, with the OLD....THAT he CONFESSED WITH, Being CUT OFF....DEAD.

Thus How does an OLD, DEAD, Heart then able to Supersede Gods Power and revive this OLD DEAD HEART, so it can exercise its FREEWILL Rejection of God? They never say!

The Lord has provided all men OPTIONS....and details HOW a man can CHOOSE His OPTIONS....and the results of the OPTIONS a man CHOOSES.

A man WHO chooses to heartfully Call on the Lord and Confess & Repent IS making a PERMANENT FREEWILL Choice.....that SHALL NOT be possible to UNDO.

If a man IS WISHY WASHY .... gee, do some really think the Lord is FOOLED, and SAVES a man, ONLY to have the man Reject Him?

Ludicrous! And they teaching thereof, False.

The Lord is not offering to SAVE our Freewill...His offer is to ACCEPT a man Exercising his Freewill, and beforehand notifiying the man....to be Sure of ones choice, and Know the Lord Accepts your Yes Choice as YES, period. It's not some man-made contract that men can wiggle out of in a man-made court, with man-made rules, whining they didn't read the fine print.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[aspen]

You Can believe and then stop believing essentially ending a A STEP TOWARD Having a relationship With the Lord TO BECOME Established.

The Actual Establishing of a relationship With the Lord is NOT some kind of, sort of, half-baked, whimsical, Mindful idea for a man to Try to see IF it suites him.

The Conditions to establish a Relationship With the Lord Are Clear-cut.

Hear and Learn ABOUT Him.

Continue Hearing and Learning About Him, Because THAT is How one Coninues Receiving FAITH from Him. <--- That is ENLIGHTMENT.
Effected To the man By The Power of God, through The Word of God being received unto the man, Because of Gods Grace, unto the man FOR the mans Continued Hearing and Learning About Him.

That does not constitute a relationship With the Lord.

As a man chooses to continue to follow...
He is receiving FAITH.

As the mans Faith increases (which BTW, affects His Heart)...

And the man Himself Feels in his own heart the Effect of the Faith.....

That man is prepared...by His OWN Freewill To ...call on the Lord and Confess his heartfelt Belief and Repent...... OR Not.

Scripture says:
1) Be sure of your choice
2) Let Your YES be Yes

You are making a permanent Choice TO Willfully Surrender your Life TO the Lord Forever.

How precisely can you tell me THAT Can be Undone, By Any man?

God Bless,
Taken

So committing to a relationship with Jesus is a loss of freewill?

 

[Nancy]

Hi Nancy ~
I think there was a bit of a dilemma going on in some responses to you, regarding CHOOSING, and effecting Salvation.

Bottom line is the Lord PROVIDES all men the OPTION to become Saved. His Provisions are BY Him Calling a man....

The Lord is not using the phone, or texting or whispering in a mans ear.....He has provided His Word for all to Hear, and it is the man WHO chooses to hear, or not.

And it is the man who chooses to continue hearing, to believe what he hears....or not.

And it is the man who chooses to Call on the Lord and Confess his sins, his repentance, and his "FREEWILL" Choice to become Converted....or not.

Some are saying AFTER a Conversion OCCURS, a man CAN REJECT God....which is FALSE.

Their basis is they maintain their FREEWILL.

The FACT IS, they EXERCISED THEIR FREEWILL to Become Converted!

What exactly can such a man then CHANGE?
His MIND? They never say, but the implication is there.

Problem with Changing their MIND, is IT IS NEVER the thoughts of a mans MIND that a man becomes Converted!
The Freewill Confession to the Lord is Alwasy from the thoughts of the HEART!

So are some teaching, the Freewill thoughts of a mans HEART can be Changed AFTER a Conversion?

How can that BE? Part of the Conversion is the man Having his HEART Circumcised, with the OLD....THAT he CONFESSED WITH, Being CUT OFF....DEAD.

Thus How does an OLD, DEAD, Heart then able to Supersede Gods Power and revive this OLD DEAD HEART, so it can exercise its FREEWILL Rejection of God? They never say!

The Lord has provided all men OPTIONS....and details HOW a man can CHOOSE His OPTIONS....and the results of the OPTIONS a man CHOOSES.

A man WHO chooses to heartfully Call on the Lord and Confess & Repent IS making a PERMANENT FREEWILL Choice.....that SHALL NOT be possible to UNDO.

If a man IS WISHY WASHY .... gee, do some really think the Lord is FOOLED, and SAVES a man, ONLY to have the man Reject Him?

Ludicrous! And they teaching thereof, False.

The Lord is not offering to SAVE our Freewill...His offer is to ACCEPT a man Exercising his Freewill, and beforehand notifiying the man....to be Sure of ones choice, and Know the Lord Accepts your Yes Choice as YES, period. It's not some man-made contract that men can wiggle out of in a man-made court, with man-made rules, whining they didn't read the fine print.

God Bless,
Taken

Yes Taken, I believe all of that. Was there something in particular, that I said you are that you question?

 

[aspen]

um.... I'm Presbyterian.... He's a Nonconformist. Yeah, um that's not true. In fact, I purposely selected a minister who was NOT of my denomination.



What happens to those heathen in Africa?


See! We're LEARNING!!! Yes, whomever God will say, he will.


Oh, now this is quite simple. When it boils down to it who is responsible for you coming to faith God or you? Who makes the final call?

USA? America? Evangelical presbyterian?

 

[Nancy]

USA? America? Evangelical presbyterian?

?? lol- not getting this.

 

[aspen]

?? lol- not getting this.

There are lots of different Presbyterians....I was just wondering which branch Mjh29 belongs to

 

[GodsGrace]

There are lots of different Presbyterians....I was just wondering which branch Mjh29 belongs to

I do believe all Presbyterians are reformed ... Calvinist.

 

[Helen]

There are lots of different Presbyterians....I was just wondering which branch Mjh29 belongs to

I am so glad that I am not "an anything"....I have no box.
I'm probably a mixture of many things...as we walk through life, we choose what we put onto our spiritual plates. Much is just thrown over my shoulder..