CAN WE FALL AWAY ?

[GodsGrace]

Why would a Christian even entertain the thought, the knowledge of good and evil at best, you will see that one day. We all go through it trying to keep believers saved some how, vicious cycle.

Hi Soul man,
I don't really understand what good and evil has to do with eternal security.
That "one day" better hurry up and come; I've been a believer over 40 years!

I can't keep a believer saved. A believer is always saved. As long as we believe in the one who saved us, we are saved. If we stop believing in the one who saved us, we can no longer be saved.
Galatians 2:16
16nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

And Paul does state that we must hold firm to this faith:
Hebrews 3:14
14For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

 

[Heb 13:8]

And Paul does state that we must hold firm to this faith:
Hebrews 3:14
14For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

And that's what we do, hold firm. It's just an encouragment letter GG. That is all.

Heb 3:13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called "Today," so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness.

If we stop believing in the one who saved us, we can no longer be saved.

It's impossible for a believer to stop believing because the seed never leaves them. A believer will never stop believing in that day he/she got saved and received the indwelling Holy Spirit. Spiritual abortion of the seed is not biblical, it's only in your imagination. - Heb

 

[Taken]

I agree. I believe the underlying problem is that we sometimes tend to neglect taking the Scriptures as a WHOLE, and sometimes let our own misinterpretation of a few select verses warp out theology

Expect; you're anti-Catholic...you're Wrong...
The Cosmos blah, blah, and a whole rash of attempts to disparage you.....BECAUSE you dare to disagree.....!!! This has been going on repeatedly for this entire OP.

Yawn.
God Bless.
Taken

 

[GodsGrace]

And that's what we do, hold firm. It's just an encouragment letter GG. That is all.

Heb 3:13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called "Today," so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness.

I do believe it's more than encouragement. In every letter of his Paul exhorted the Christians to live a certain life style; as did every writer. It seems to me that it was very important to them to make these proclamations.

We must, then, decide what being hardened by sin's deceitfulness means.
Revelation 21:27 tells us nothing unclean will enter heaven.
Revelation 3:16 tells us God will spit us out of His mouth just for being lukewarm.
Mathew 7:19 JESUS tells us that every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down.

I can post verses from every epistle warning us as to how we are to behave.
And what we are to believe...

John 3:15
15so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

John 5:24
24“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Believes is always in the present tense. We must be believers at the time of our death.

It's impossible for a believer to stop believing because the seed never leaves them. A believer will never stop believing in that day he/she got saved and received the indwelling Holy Spirit. Spiritual abortion of the seed is not biblical, it's only in your imagination. - Heb

I'd love to believe this, but Jesus Himself says that we can believe for a while and then fall away.

Luke 8:13
13“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away. "

 

[soul man]

Hi Soul man,
I don't really understand what good and evil has to do with eternal security.
That "one day" better hurry up and come; I've been a believer over 40 years!

I can't keep a believer saved. A believer is always saved. As long as we believe in the one who saved us, we are saved. If we stop believing in the one who saved us, we can no longer be saved.
Galatians 2:16
16nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

And Paul does state that we must hold firm to this faith:
Hebrews 3:14
14For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

The mind, the knowledge of good and evil, it will not allow grace to function. It is a controller of the nature, when the believer had a sin nature it had to be controlled, hence the law. The new nature does not need to be controlled, the mind needs to be compatible with the new Christ in you nature.

 

[Taken]

I do believe it's more than encouragement. In every letter of his Paul exhorted the Christians to live a certain life style; as did every writer. It seems to me that it was very important to them to make these proclamations.

We must, then, decide what being hardened by sin's deceitfulness means.
Revelation 21:27 tells us nothing unclean will enter heaven.
Revelation 3:16 tells us God will spit us out of His mouth just for being lukewarm.
Mathew 7:19 JESUS tells us that every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down.

I can post verses from every epistle warning us as to how we are to behave.
And what we are to believe...

John 3:15
15so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

John 5:24
24“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Believes is always in the present tense. We must be believers at the time of our death.


I'd love to believe this, but Jesus Himself says that we can believe for a while and then fall away.

Luke 8:13
13“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away. "

Belief is Paramount. And no doubt ....
What each Believes comes with Conditions.

Conditions....
1) are numerous, according to mankinds renditions...meaning;
Christian...believe in Christ Jesus AND God the Heavenly Father.
Jew...believe in God and that the Messiah will come.
Muslim...believe in Allah and Mohammad.
Etc.

2) are Precise, according to Gods rendition.
Believe IN Christ Jesus, He has come, He IS the Lord God, and thee Heavenly God Almighty....AND "Heart fully Give your life to Him"..AND YOU WILL BE SAVED AND forever YOU WILL BE WITH Him and He WITH YOU.

Believe in Thee Heavenly Lord God Almighty Lord God Almighty and Continue the same belief until the end of your days.

POINT BEING ~
ANYONE can say....I BELIEVE...
That does not render a COMPLETE picture of a mans Testimony.

ANY MAN can Believe something today, say it, announce it, AND THEN CHANGE HIS "MIND" tomorrow.

THE Paramount DIFFERENCE IS When a man Proclaims....
He Believes IN Jesus Christ AND God and HAS Willingly and "HEART FULLY" Given His LIFIE TO:
Christ the Lord Jesus!

THAT MAN....HAS unequivocally...WITHOUT doubt...FOREVER has BECOME FORGIVEN, SAVED, BORN AGAIN, ALIVE FOREVER, "Converted" ONCE and FOREVER and FOREVER HIS WITH His GOD, AND his GOD WITH him....thee Lord God Almighty!

THAT MAN...WILL NEVER AGAIN BE WITHOUT or Separated FROM God.
BECAUSE...It is BY and THROUGH the POWER of GOD HIMSELF, THAT MAN, IS FOREVER KEPT in FAITH-"FULLNESS" to thee Lord God Almighty.

Fall AWAY?
Lukewarm?
Believe and then Deny?
Doubt?
Wishy Washy?
Milquetoast?
Un trustful?
Follow for awhile and then STOP?

Yes, Yes, Yes......^THAT CAN APPLY TO ANYONE..."WHO" is NOT "CONVERTED"...
"BY AND THROUGH CHRIST"!!

"THEY" are relying "ON" their "OWN POWER" to "BE", "KEEP" and "REMAIN" - faithful.

And "their" renditions ARE numerous, as to "HOW" "THEY" "MUST" remain "FAITHFUL"...
Some say....by going to a Church.
Some say...by following a Churches Teachings
Some say....by following Gods Precepts.
Some say... by following Gods Commands.
Some say... by following Gods Laws.
Some say... by Constant prayer.
Some say... by participating in the Lords Supper.
Some say... by participating in Feasts and Traditions.
Some say... by Works.
Some say... by Cooperation in these things.

The Lord says BY:
By "HEARTFUL" Belief.
By "Repentance" for Disbelief.
By "Willingness" to Choose to GIVE ones LIFE "TO" the Lord and THROUGH HIM, BECOME, CONVERTED...ONCE and FOREVER...and FOREVER KEPT in Faithfulness TO HIM, BY HIM.
THEY BECOME "HIS" Church.
And THEY ARE WHOM The Son of Man, "WiTH" POWER shall CALL UP TO Him, and Glorify THEIR BODY'S.

ALL OTHERS....Shall be Denied PARTICIPATION in the Marriage Supper of Christ and His Bride.

Some WHO are already SAVED, and NOT a Christs Church....ARE they who SHALL be guests and witnesses at the Marriage Supper.

ALL WHO ARE NOT SAVED, shall Be excluded as participants and witnesses.

ALL who ARE "Converted" SHALL Be participants.

The fallen believers, who believed for awhile and then stopped....---> NOT participants OR witnesses.

Bottom Line....
Belief is a Beginning AND can waver.
"Heart'-ful Conviction and one Giving their Life to the Lord is a FOREVER CONVERSION, and FOREVER LIFE "BY" and "THROUGH" the Power of THEE Lord God Almighty.... and CAN NEVER be UNDONE.

Bottom Line....
It is not what men SAY to other men...
It is WHAT an Individual SAYS to Christ the Lord, from his Heart.

God Bless.
Taken

 

[H. Richard]

I do believe it's more than encouragement. In every letter of his Paul exhorted the Christians to live a certain life style; as did every writer. It seems to me that it was very important to them to make these proclamations.

We must, then, decide what being hardened by sin's deceitfulness means.
Revelation 21:27 tells us nothing unclean will enter heaven.
Revelation 3:16 tells us God will spit us out of His mouth just for being lukewarm.
Mathew 7:19 JESUS tells us that every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down.

I can post verses from every epistle warning us as to how we are to behave.
And what we are to believe...

John 3:15
15so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

John 5:24
24“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Believes is always in the present tense. We must be believers at the time of our death.




I'd love to believe this, but Jesus Himself says that we can believe for a while and then fall away.

Luke 8:13
13“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away. "

***

God knows that mankind is living in sinful flesh and He also knows we can not stop sinning by our efforts. Therefore He has issued the GOSPEL OF GRACE. A gospel where He has paid for all of mankind's sins, past, present and future. Pay attention ==== the only sin that condemns in this age of God's grace is the sin of unbelief. unbelief in the fact that God has already paid for the sins of those who have placed their faith, belief, trust, and confidence in what HE has already accomplished.

What has happened is that religions no longer teach the above. In religion it is all about being self-righteous. Just live a good life and you will make it. Trusting in the fact that Jesus (GOD) paid for your sins gives glory to God's Son.

No one will come to faith in Jesus until they realize they can not save themselves by trying to be good and doing the works their religion teaches. I, personally, am not guilty of the sins of the world. I am guilty of only my sins of the flesh. I KNOW I am lost without the work of the cross. The story of "the lost sheep" tells us that only those that realize they are lost will call to Jesus to save them. As long as a person thinks they are saved by their faith in their religion they will not come to Jesus and He will say to them, He never knew them.

Listen to what Jesus said;
Matt 19:25-26
25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, "Who then can be saved?"
26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
NKJV

He made it possible under grace.

 

[twinc]

***

God knows that mankind is living in sinful flesh and He also knows we can not stop sinning by our efforts. Therefore He has issued the GOSPEL OF GRACE. A gospel where He has paid for all of mankind's sins, past, present and future. Pay attention ==== the only sin that condemns in this age of God's grace is the sin of unbelief. unbelief in the fact that God has already paid for the sins of those who have placed their faith, belief, trust, and confidence in what HE has already accomplished.

What has happened is that religions no longer teach the above. In religion it is all about being self-righteous. Just live a good life and you will make it. Trusting in the fact that Jesus (GOD) paid for your sins gives glory to God's Son.

No one will come to faith in Jesus until they realize they can not save themselves by trying to be good and doing the works their religion teaches. I, personally, am not guilty of the sins of the world. I am guilty of only my sins of the flesh. I KNOW I am lost without the work of the cross. The story of "the lost sheep" tells us that only those that realize they are lost will call to Jesus to save them. As long as a person thinks they are saved by their faith in their religion they will not come to Jesus and He will say to them, He never knew them.

Listen to what Jesus said;
Matt 19:25-26
25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, "Who then can be saved?"
26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
NKJV

He made it possible under grace.

exactly right imho = how He does this/did this is not so well known or realised but is awesome and most wonderful - He had to get round the wiles and snares of the devil and our own inability to really really truly simply simply belief which He told us is very very difficult if not impossible to do for adults imho - twinc

 

[GodsGrace]

***

God knows that mankind is living in sinful flesh and He also knows we can not stop sinning by our efforts. Therefore He has issued the GOSPEL OF GRACE. A gospel where He has paid for all of mankind's sins, past, present and future. Pay attention ==== the only sin that condemns in this age of God's grace is the sin of unbelief. unbelief in the fact that God has already paid for the sins of those who have placed their faith, belief, trust, and confidence in what HE has already accomplished.

What has happened is that religions no longer teach the above. In religion it is all about being self-righteous. Just live a good life and you will make it. Trusting in the fact that Jesus (GOD) paid for your sins gives glory to God's Son.

No one will come to faith in Jesus until they realize they can not save themselves by trying to be good and doing the works their religion teaches. I, personally, am not guilty of the sins of the world. I am guilty of only my sins of the flesh. I KNOW I am lost without the work of the cross. The story of "the lost sheep" tells us that only those that realize they are lost will call to Jesus to save them. As long as a person thinks they are saved by their faith in their religion they will not come to Jesus and He will say to them, He never knew them.

Listen to what Jesus said;
Matt 19:25-26
25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, "Who then can be saved?"
26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
NKJV

He made it possible under grace.

I agree with all you've said.

 

[GodsGrace]

Belief is Paramount. And no doubt ....
What each Believes comes with Conditions.

Conditions....
1) are numerous, according to mankinds renditions...meaning;
Christian...believe in Christ Jesus AND God the Heavenly Father.
Jew...believe in God and that the Messiah will come.
Muslim...believe in Allah and Mohammad.
Etc.

2) are Precise, according to Gods rendition.
Believe IN Christ Jesus, He has come, He IS the Lord God, and thee Heavenly God Almighty....AND "Heart fully Give your life to Him"..AND YOU WILL BE SAVED AND forever YOU WILL BE WITH Him and He WITH YOU.

Believe in Thee Heavenly Lord God Almighty Lord God Almighty and Continue the same belief until the end of your days.

POINT BEING ~
ANYONE can say....I BELIEVE...
That does not render a COMPLETE picture of a mans Testimony.

ANY MAN can Believe something today, say it, announce it, AND THEN CHANGE HIS "MIND" tomorrow.

THE Paramount DIFFERENCE IS When a man Proclaims....
He Believes IN Jesus Christ AND God and HAS Willingly and "HEART FULLY" Given His LIFIE TO:
Christ the Lord Jesus!

THAT MAN....HAS unequivocally...WITHOUT doubt...FOREVER has BECOME FORGIVEN, SAVED, BORN AGAIN, ALIVE FOREVER, "Converted" ONCE and FOREVER and FOREVER HIS WITH His GOD, AND his GOD WITH him....thee Lord God Almighty!

THAT MAN...WILL NEVER AGAIN BE WITHOUT or Separated FROM God.
BECAUSE...It is BY and THROUGH the POWER of GOD HIMSELF, THAT MAN, IS FOREVER KEPT in FAITH-"FULLNESS" to thee Lord God Almighty.

Fall AWAY?
Lukewarm?
Believe and then Deny?
Doubt?
Wishy Washy?
Milquetoast?
Un trustful?
Follow for awhile and then STOP?

Yes, Yes, Yes......^THAT CAN APPLY TO ANYONE..."WHO" is NOT "CONVERTED"...
"BY AND THROUGH CHRIST"!!

"THEY" are relying "ON" their "OWN POWER" to "BE", "KEEP" and "REMAIN" - faithful.

And "their" renditions ARE numerous, as to "HOW" "THEY" "MUST" remain "FAITHFUL"...
Some say....by going to a Church.
Some say...by following a Churches Teachings
Some say....by following Gods Precepts.
Some say... by following Gods Commands.
Some say... by following Gods Laws.
Some say... by Constant prayer.
Some say... by participating in the Lords Supper.
Some say... by participating in Feasts and Traditions.
Some say... by Works.
Some say... by Cooperation in these things.

The Lord says BY:
By "HEARTFUL" Belief.
By "Repentance" for Disbelief.
By "Willingness" to Choose to GIVE ones LIFE "TO" the Lord and THROUGH HIM, BECOME, CONVERTED...ONCE and FOREVER...and FOREVER KEPT in Faithfulness TO HIM, BY HIM.
THEY BECOME "HIS" Church.
And THEY ARE WHOM The Son of Man, "WiTH" POWER shall CALL UP TO Him, and Glorify THEIR BODY'S.

ALL OTHERS....Shall be Denied PARTICIPATION in the Marriage Supper of Christ and His Bride.

Some WHO are already SAVED, and NOT a Christs Church....ARE they who SHALL be guests and witnesses at the Marriage Supper.

ALL WHO ARE NOT SAVED, shall Be excluded as participants and witnesses.

ALL who ARE "Converted" SHALL Be participants.

The fallen believers, who believed for awhile and then stopped....---> NOT participants OR witnesses.

Bottom Line....
Belief is a Beginning AND can waver.
"Heart'-ful Conviction and one Giving their Life to the Lord is a FOREVER CONVERSION, and FOREVER LIFE "BY" and "THROUGH" the Power of THEE Lord God Almighty.... and CAN NEVER be UNDONE.

Bottom Line....
It is not what men SAY to other men...
It is WHAT an Individual SAYS to Christ the Lord, from his Heart.

God Bless.
Taken

This is all very nice, but I quoted scripture, including what Jesus said, to which you have not replied.

Honestly, I trust what Jesus said more than what you say.

 

[GodsGrace]

Belief is Paramount. And no doubt ....
What each Believes comes with Conditions.

Conditions....
1) are numerous, according to mankinds renditions...meaning;
Christian...believe in Christ Jesus AND God the Heavenly Father.
Jew...believe in God and that the Messiah will come.
Muslim...believe in Allah and Mohammad.
Etc.

2) are Precise, according to Gods rendition.
Believe IN Christ Jesus, He has come, He IS the Lord God, and thee Heavenly God Almighty....AND "Heart fully Give your life to Him"..AND YOU WILL BE SAVED AND forever YOU WILL BE WITH Him and He WITH YOU.

Believe in Thee Heavenly Lord God Almighty Lord God Almighty and Continue the same belief until the end of your days.

POINT BEING ~
ANYONE can say....I BELIEVE...
That does not render a COMPLETE picture of a mans Testimony.

ANY MAN can Believe something today, say it, announce it, AND THEN CHANGE HIS "MIND" tomorrow.

THE Paramount DIFFERENCE IS When a man Proclaims....
He Believes IN Jesus Christ AND God and HAS Willingly and "HEART FULLY" Given His LIFIE TO:
Christ the Lord Jesus!

THAT MAN....HAS unequivocally...WITHOUT doubt...FOREVER has BECOME FORGIVEN, SAVED, BORN AGAIN, ALIVE FOREVER, "Converted" ONCE and FOREVER and FOREVER HIS WITH His GOD, AND his GOD WITH him....thee Lord God Almighty!

THAT MAN...WILL NEVER AGAIN BE WITHOUT or Separated FROM God.
BECAUSE...It is BY and THROUGH the POWER of GOD HIMSELF, THAT MAN, IS FOREVER KEPT in FAITH-"FULLNESS" to thee Lord God Almighty.

Fall AWAY?
Lukewarm?
Believe and then Deny?
Doubt?
Wishy Washy?
Milquetoast?
Un trustful?
Follow for awhile and then STOP?

Yes, Yes, Yes......^THAT CAN APPLY TO ANYONE..."WHO" is NOT "CONVERTED"...
"BY AND THROUGH CHRIST"!!

"THEY" are relying "ON" their "OWN POWER" to "BE", "KEEP" and "REMAIN" - faithful.

And "their" renditions ARE numerous, as to "HOW" "THEY" "MUST" remain "FAITHFUL"...
Some say....by going to a Church.
Some say...by following a Churches Teachings
Some say....by following Gods Precepts.
Some say... by following Gods Commands.
Some say... by following Gods Laws.
Some say... by Constant prayer.
Some say... by participating in the Lords Supper.
Some say... by participating in Feasts and Traditions.
Some say... by Works.
Some say... by Cooperation in these things.

The Lord says BY:
By "HEARTFUL" Belief.
By "Repentance" for Disbelief.
By "Willingness" to Choose to GIVE ones LIFE "TO" the Lord and THROUGH HIM, BECOME, CONVERTED...ONCE and FOREVER...and FOREVER KEPT in Faithfulness TO HIM, BY HIM.
THEY BECOME "HIS" Church.
And THEY ARE WHOM The Son of Man, "WiTH" POWER shall CALL UP TO Him, and Glorify THEIR BODY'S.

ALL OTHERS....Shall be Denied PARTICIPATION in the Marriage Supper of Christ and His Bride.

Some WHO are already SAVED, and NOT a Christs Church....ARE they who SHALL be guests and witnesses at the Marriage Supper.

ALL WHO ARE NOT SAVED, shall Be excluded as participants and witnesses.

ALL who ARE "Converted" SHALL Be participants.

The fallen believers, who believed for awhile and then stopped....---> NOT participants OR witnesses.

Bottom Line....
Belief is a Beginning AND can waver.
"Heart'-ful Conviction and one Giving their Life to the Lord is a FOREVER CONVERSION, and FOREVER LIFE "BY" and "THROUGH" the Power of THEE Lord God Almighty.... and CAN NEVER be UNDONE.

Bottom Line....
It is not what men SAY to other men...
It is WHAT an Individual SAYS to Christ the Lord, from his Heart.

God Bless.
Taken

PS
I do believe we are to follow God's precepts and His laws.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You seem to love the cosmic rapist remark very much. Good to know we r here to kindly discuss topics. My God changes the hearts of men, after all if the heart of the king is in his hand, whose isn't? What about when God hardened Pharaohs heart? Was that Pharaohs choice? We only come to see the Glory of God after he reaveals it to us, and changes our wills. I think you misunderstand our position in this universe; we are Gods creation. And by right of creation, He owns us all. You seem to think that mans will is perfectly untainted, so let me ask you this: why do some choose and not others? How is it fair that some were raised in the church, and others on the streets, and yet your god expects us all to "be smart enough" to make the right choice. How is this fair and just? What about the heathen in Africa? How can they pass the test when they don't even get to study? Why are you so fixated on being able to stake a claim in your salvation??!

Apparently you are totally ignorant of what the Catholic Church teaches - so allow me to educate you.

First of all - the Church doesn't go around telling people WHO is "saved" and who isn't because that is between the individual and GOD. I see this all the time from Protestants - especially when somebody decides to walk away fro, their faith. "They were never 'saved' to begin with!"
Really?? WHO gave YOU the right to make that determination??
Certainly NOT God . . .

Secondly - the Church teaches that outside the Church there is no salvation.
This does NOT mean that only "card carrying" Catholics will go to Heaven - but also:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation. (CCC 847).

When Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for the reactions to the curing of the Blind Man - they said:
John 9:40-42
Some of the Pharisees who were with him heard this and said to him, “Surely we are not also blind, are we?”
Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you are saying, ‘We see,’ so your sin remains.

As for God intervening as in the Case of Pharoah or Moses or David or Mary - these are exceptions - and you never base a doctrine on the exception, but the NORM.

 

[Nancy]

Belief is Paramount. And no doubt ....
What each Believes comes with Conditions.

Conditions....
1) are numerous, according to mankinds renditions...meaning;
Christian...believe in Christ Jesus AND God the Heavenly Father.
Jew...believe in God and that the Messiah will come.
Muslim...believe in Allah and Mohammad.
Etc.

2) are Precise, according to Gods rendition.
Believe IN Christ Jesus, He has come, He IS the Lord God, and thee Heavenly God Almighty....AND "Heart fully Give your life to Him"..AND YOU WILL BE SAVED AND forever YOU WILL BE WITH Him and He WITH YOU.

Believe in Thee Heavenly Lord God Almighty Lord God Almighty and Continue the same belief until the end of your days.

POINT BEING ~
ANYONE can say....I BELIEVE...
That does not render a COMPLETE picture of a mans Testimony.

ANY MAN can Believe something today, say it, announce it, AND THEN CHANGE HIS "MIND" tomorrow.

THE Paramount DIFFERENCE IS When a man Proclaims....
He Believes IN Jesus Christ AND God and HAS Willingly and "HEART FULLY" Given His LIFIE TO:
Christ the Lord Jesus!

THAT MAN....HAS unequivocally...WITHOUT doubt...FOREVER has BECOME FORGIVEN, SAVED, BORN AGAIN, ALIVE FOREVER, "Converted" ONCE and FOREVER and FOREVER HIS WITH His GOD, AND his GOD WITH him....thee Lord God Almighty!

THAT MAN...WILL NEVER AGAIN BE WITHOUT or Separated FROM God.
BECAUSE...It is BY and THROUGH the POWER of GOD HIMSELF, THAT MAN, IS FOREVER KEPT in FAITH-"FULLNESS" to thee Lord God Almighty.

Fall AWAY?
Lukewarm?
Believe and then Deny?
Doubt?
Wishy Washy?
Milquetoast?
Un trustful?
Follow for awhile and then STOP?

Yes, Yes, Yes......^THAT CAN APPLY TO ANYONE..."WHO" is NOT "CONVERTED"...
"BY AND THROUGH CHRIST"!!

"THEY" are relying "ON" their "OWN POWER" to "BE", "KEEP" and "REMAIN" - faithful.

And "their" renditions ARE numerous, as to "HOW" "THEY" "MUST" remain "FAITHFUL"...
Some say....by going to a Church.
Some say...by following a Churches Teachings
Some say....by following Gods Precepts.
Some say... by following Gods Commands.
Some say... by following Gods Laws.
Some say... by Constant prayer.
Some say... by participating in the Lords Supper.
Some say... by participating in Feasts and Traditions.
Some say... by Works.
Some say... by Cooperation in these things.

The Lord says BY:
By "HEARTFUL" Belief.
By "Repentance" for Disbelief.
By "Willingness" to Choose to GIVE ones LIFE "TO" the Lord and THROUGH HIM, BECOME, CONVERTED...ONCE and FOREVER...and FOREVER KEPT in Faithfulness TO HIM, BY HIM.
THEY BECOME "HIS" Church.
And THEY ARE WHOM The Son of Man, "WiTH" POWER shall CALL UP TO Him, and Glorify THEIR BODY'S.

ALL OTHERS....Shall be Denied PARTICIPATION in the Marriage Supper of Christ and His Bride.

Some WHO are already SAVED, and NOT a Christs Church....ARE they who SHALL be guests and witnesses at the Marriage Supper.

ALL WHO ARE NOT SAVED, shall Be excluded as participants and witnesses.

ALL who ARE "Converted" SHALL Be participants.

The fallen believers, who believed for awhile and then stopped....---> NOT participants OR witnesses.

Bottom Line....
Belief is a Beginning AND can waver.
"Heart'-ful Conviction and one Giving their Life to the Lord is a FOREVER CONVERSION, and FOREVER LIFE "BY" and "THROUGH" the Power of THEE Lord God Almighty.... and CAN NEVER be UNDONE.

Bottom Line....
It is not what men SAY to other men...
It is WHAT an Individual SAYS to Christ the Lord, from his Heart.

God Bless.
Taken

This is what I believe is referred to as the "saving grace". If one has sincerely surrendered all to God Almighty, and believed in Jesus and agreed with God that we are sinners in need of the ONLY Savior available to us...we cannot help but to be truly changed persons. Sin does not fit the believer anymore. Once our eyes ad ears are opened, how could one EVER go back? It's the seeds that are not allowed to take root that fall on rocky ground...those were never truly saved...IMO. Good post @Taken.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Psalms 91:11-12
Satan is very knowledgeable of Scriptures.
Men can also be very knowledgeable of Scriptures.
Knowing the Scriptures does not mean Believing, Trusting, Following or submitting oneself to a Conversion.
Satan twisted Scriptural meaning, men twist Scriptural meaning, you inparticular twist Scriptural meaning for men in Scripture and AND For men who do not agree with your understanding.

You have copied these Scriptures umpteen times and been answered umpteen times while repeatedly claiming no one answered you.

Why not be honest and say you have repeatedly asked and no one has come forward to answer you with an answer that you explained as your understanding?

And, as you have been repeatedly shown - Epignosis isn't about simply "knowing",
There are already Greek words for that (Oida, Gnosis).

No - as I have educated YOU and Stranger and APAK and everybody else who refuses to accept - Epignosis is a FULL, experiential and complete knowledge. As I presented earlier - the consensus of PROTESTANT scholarship agrees and goes even further.

The Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament refers to Epignosis as "Christian Faith". As eminent Protestant theologian J. N. Lightfoot commented:
"Hence also epignosis is used especially of the knowledge of God and of Christ, as being the perfection of knowledge” (St. Paul’s Epistles to the Colossians and Philemon, page 138).

You can try to wriggle your way out of this until the cows cone home but you will NEVER be able to change the meaning of the term, "Epignosis" . . .

 

[Heb 13:8]

In every letter of his Paul exhorted the Christians to live a certain life style; as did every writer.

And that's what sanctification and discipline do, that is their purpose. Are you denying the power of God?

We must, then, decide what being hardened by sin's deceitfulness means.

It means to quench the spirit, not the seed GG.

Revelation 21:27 tells us nothing unclean will enter heaven.

Meaning that we are clean not by our works, but by His blood. If you are covered under His blood you are considered righteous by what He did on the cross for you. Overcoming is through belief, not works. Being "born of God" is a permanent condition of teh heart.

1 John 5:4-5 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Rev 21:27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Revelation 3:16 tells us God will spit us out of His mouth just for being lukewarm.

This is figurative language describing His anger towards the corporate church, not the individual conception of the seed in each person.

Mathew 7:19 JESUS tells us that every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down.

Matt 7:15-23 is referring to those that try to enter the kingdom through works salvation, Matt 7:22. In Matt 7:15, the sheep are believers in Christ and the wolves are nonbelievers... https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/sheep-wolves-illustration.26291/

I can post verses from every epistle warning us as to how we are to behave.

That's good you're doing that, but "behaving or not behaving" affects sanctification and discipline. It does not remove the seed of salvation from the believer. You're trying to remove the seed after the seal has been placed on a believer, and it's just not biblical. Eph 1:13-14.

John 3:15
15so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

And belief in the death, burial, resurrection only comes once.

Believes is always in the present tense. We must be believers at the time of our death.

When it's in the present tense, the apostle is telling you to accept Christ now. We are free to accept Christ prior to our death.

I'd love to believe this, but Jesus Himself says that we can believe for a while and then fall away.

Luke 8:13
13“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away. "

Let me know if you see the contradiction (of non-osas) in the Synoptic Gospels.

Matt 13:21 (does not use the word believe) (it uses trouble/persecution)
Mark 4:17 (does not use the word believe) (it uses trouble/persecution)
Luke 8:13 (uses the word believe) (aphistémi/depart)
Rom 8:35, 38-39 (nothing can separate us, even trouble/persecution)
1 Tim 4:1 ( aphistémi/depart)

Matt 13:21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Mark 4:17 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Luke 8:13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

Rom 8:35, 38-39 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Tim 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

Luke 8:13 / Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - which for a while believe: their faith is a temporary one, like that of Simon Magus; which shows it is not true faith; for that is an abiding grace, Christ, who is the author, is the finisher of it, and prays for it, that it fail not. The Persic version renders it, "in the time of hearing they have faith"; and such sort of hearers there are, who, whilst they are hearing, assent to what they hear, but when they are gone, either forget it, or, falling into bad company, are prevailed upon to doubt of it, and disbelieve it. The Arabic version renders it, "they believe for a small time"; their faith do not continue long, nor their profession of it, both are soon dropped:

God bless

 

[aspen]

Yes we can fall away. If we stop practicing loving others, we become self absorbed, once again. Self absorption leads to bitterness and isolation and death.

 

[Taken]

PS
I do believe we are to follow God's precepts and His laws.

IF you were / are a Jew under the LAW "AND" Have submitted to Christ Jesus....

"HE" "has" redeemed you from the curse of the Law.
(The curse of the Law, are consequences for violations of the Law).
Gal 3:13

IF you (are saved) and follow Gods Precepts..
YOU shall receive blessing and CALLED...Great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Matt 5:19

IF you (are saved) and do not follow Gods Precepts you shall miss out on receiving blessings and be CALLED...Least in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Matt 5:19

The Receiving of Salvation is paramount, to which these verses Apply.

IOW, as I have stressed repeatedly, APPLICATION of particular VERSES is dependent upon what INDIVIDUAL men actually "DO", rather than what they "say".

Absolutely God wants men to follow His Precepts......Yet we also know NOT ALL MEN DO....even SAVED MEN.

There IS a consequence for Saved Men who do not follow Gods Precepts....

1) it Affects blessings they could have received.
2) it puts them in a LESSER position once they ARE in Heaven.


However the TRUTH IS, All Saved men SHALL forever Be with the Lord God....some shall be greatly blessed with important positions...others not.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

This is all very nice, but I quoted scripture, including what Jesus said, to which you have not replied.

Honestly, I trust what Jesus said more than what you say.

I never asked anyone to believe what I say.
What I say, is Scripturally Based. Go see if what I say IS from Scripture or not, then challenge what you disagree with.

Do what Scripture says....

Some of the things I speak of, and their Scriptural basis;

Rom 10:9
Rom 10:10
Rom 10:13
John 14:1
Matt 13:15
Matt 18:3
Mark 4:12
Acts 3:19
John 14:16
Rom 11:36
Rom 11:36
Heb 10:14
1 John 3:9
Gal 6:5
Heb 5:13

You have a particular objection to what I say?

Give a particular comment to something specific.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[aspen]

If you believe in free choice, how can you believe that we cannot choose to end a relationship with anyone, including Jesus?

 

[twinc]

If you believe in free choice, how can you believe that we cannot choose to end a relationship with anyone, including Jesus?

we had no free choice in our creation nor do we have one in our salvation - as Christians asnd children of God we are saved despite the wiles and snares of devils and despite ourselves this is the lost good news and glad tidings of great joy imho - twinc