Can we know the day and hour of Jesus' return?

[Scott Downey]

There is ZERO scripture that says there is a post trib rapture.

The only 'rapture' Jesus taught is the post trib rapture, every single thing He teaches for that is post trib.

There is no other gathering of His people taught by Him, prove it to yourself, all you need do is read what He says.

 

[Scott Downey]

Indeed. The word "tribulation" occurs 21 times in the New Testament (NKJV). In many of the verses containing the word, it is taught that Christians go through tribulation. For example, Jesus told the disciples:

Jhn_16:33 (NKJV) These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."

Look how John refers to himself and his readers in Revelation 1:

Rev_1:9 (NKJV) I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation also talks of the company of the redeemed, that "multitude which no man can number, as those who came out of the great tribulation, not those who escaped the great tribulation by being raptured before it happened:

(Rev 7:9-17 NKJV) After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!" All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying: "Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom, Thanksgiving and honor and power and might, Be to our God forever and ever. Amen." Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?" And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."

All need do is read Mark 13 to understand rapture is post trib, he never says anything about gathering His people before that, never, not once.

 

[Scott Downey]

All Day of the Lord verses, old and new testament point to the destruction of the ungodly sinners, and the preservation of the righteous, on this earth. Some will survive tribulation of the last days.

 

[Scott Downey]

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Thessalonians 4 - New King James Version

Plea for Purity - Finally then, brethren, we urge and exhort in the Lord Jesus that you should abound more and more, just as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God; for you know what commandments we gave you through the Lord Jesus. For this is the will of God, your...

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The Comfort of Christ’s Coming​

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen [b]asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who [c]sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are [d]asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

!!!!!
This is the rapture passage often quoted. The only important thing is that it happens with the coming of Christ.
Christ said he would come again in glory with His angels, there is no secret rapture, this one mentions the trumpet of God and voice of an archangel, it is loud and visible event to all people. Some believers have remained alive...

Every eye shall see Him coming on the clouds of heaven, believing and unbelieving.

Matthew 26
63 But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, “I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!”

64 Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

65 Then the high priest tore his clothes, saying, “He has spoken blasphemy! What further need do we have of witnesses? Look, now you have heard His blasphemy!

 

[Scott Downey]

The church is looking for the blessed hope and appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, as the next major event to come.

This appearing is the second coming....

Bible Gateway passage: Titus 2 - New King James Version

Qualities of a Sound Church - But as for you, speak the things which are proper for sound doctrine: that the older men be sober, reverent, temperate, sound in faith, in love, in patience; the older women likewise, that they be reverent in behavior, not slanderers, not given to much wine...

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11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

15 Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you.

 

[CrowCross]

The only 'rapture' Jesus taught is the post trib rapture, every single thing He teaches for that is post trib.

There is no other gathering of His people taught by Him, prove it to yourself, all you need do is read what He says.

With Noah: They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage...with Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built.....do you think this is what the end of the 7 year tribulation will look like?

Have you not read Rev 6?
8 Then I looked and saw a pale green horse. Its rider’s name was Death, and Hades followed close behind. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill by sword, by famine, by plague, and by the beasts of the earth.

Have you not read Rev 8? Here is a small portion of it...
7Then the first angel sounded his trumpet, and hail and fire mixed with blood were hurled down upon the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, along with a third of the trees and all the green grass.

8Then the second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned to blood, 9a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.

10Then the third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star burning like a torch fell from heaven and landed on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water. 11The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter like wormwood oil,aand many people died from the bitter waters.

Are you really going to tell me...as you said...."During the tribulation period the world keeps on functioning although the times are hard."?????????

With Noah: They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage...with Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built.....do you think this is what the end of the 7 year tribulation will look like?

Of course not...The only time that meets this criteria is a pre-trib rapture.

 

[Scott Downey]

With Noah: They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage...with Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built.....do you think this is what the end of the 7 year tribulation will look like?

Have you not read Rev 6?
8 Then I looked and saw a pale green horse. Its rider’s name was Death, and Hades followed close behind. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill by sword, by famine, by plague, and by the beasts of the earth.

Have you not read Rev 8? Here is a small portion of it...
7Then the first angel sounded his trumpet, and hail and fire mixed with blood were hurled down upon the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, along with a third of the trees and all the green grass.

8Then the second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned to blood, 9a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.

10Then the third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star burning like a torch fell from heaven and landed on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water. 11The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter like wormwood oil,aand many people died from the bitter waters.

Are you really going to tell me...as you said...."During the tribulation period the world keeps on functioning although the times are hard."?????????

With Noah: They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage...with Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built.....do you think this is what the end of the 7 year tribulation will look like?

Of course not...The only time that meets this criteria is a pre-trib rapture.

There is not 2 raptures, just one gathering taught in scripture.

Your stuck...Revelation is full of symbolic language and how do you suppose these things using angels and such are manifested on this old earth? Circumstances occur, as in natural disasters and wars.

This world keeps functioning, people eat, work, and go through the motions of daily life, as best they can.

The great TRIBULATION actually ends, after which people say Peace and Safety!

I take it from your words, the great tribulation is never ending, just worse and worse and worse until the return of Christ?

Well that is ungodly nonsense, Christ never taught that, plainly just a lie. For the elect's sake God shortens the tribulation days, meaning they end for the very purpose of saving people alive until the return of Christ, which includes the ELECT, His very own people are the elect.

Something you refuse to acknowledge, as in your doctrine they were lifted off planet years before. But there they all are.

Mark 13
19 For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be. 20 And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days.

21 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘Look, He is there!’ do not believe it. 22 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the [g]elect. 23 But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand.

The Coming of the Son of Man​

24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His [h]elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

v27 is this rapture... Our gathering to Him includes all things in Christ in heaven and on earth, all of us wherever we are meet with Him.

 

[Scott Downey]

Ephesians 1:10
that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.

 

[Scott Downey]

Jesus says HE COMES AS A THIEF, the world is saying PEACE AND SAFETY! Then Jesus appears, the world burns, and they are judged.

KJ21
“Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.”

Mathew 24
42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what [g]hour your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what [h]hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

1 Thess 5
2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.