When did I claim to be your judge? When did I excommunicate you? When did I say you're not going to heaven?Niki said:
Are you crazy?
Can you have God as your Father, without the Church as your mother?
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Are you crazy?
Interesting reaction. I guess you didn't refer to my prior posts.
FYI, I never stated you could keep me out of heaven. However, according to much of the teaching of your affiliate church, I would not be considered a Christian.
But I guess that's another story.
Cherry picking verses does not support many beliefs entertained, again by your affiliate, however, there is a very decided bias in the way the
specialized interpreters look down their noses at others and dismiss any scripture that states the opposite of the condescending educated
by, again, their specialized institutions many of which declare all those outside the exact doctrine, to be devils.
But let's not get into that.
Well, at least I' not going to ^_^
I quoted from an online article...and it stands...Paul was using an allegorical explanation to make a point. We are allowed to actually read the Bible ourselves
and experience forgiveness directly through communion in prayer with God for the remission of our sins. We don't confess to a man who is just as sinful as we are.
FYI, I never stated you could keep me out of heaven. However, according to much of the teaching of your affiliate church, I would not be considered a Christian.
But I guess that's another story.
Cherry picking verses does not support many beliefs entertained, again by your affiliate, however, there is a very decided bias in the way the
specialized interpreters look down their noses at others and dismiss any scripture that states the opposite of the condescending educated
by, again, their specialized institutions many of which declare all those outside the exact doctrine, to be devils.
But let's not get into that.
Well, at least I' not going to ^_^
I quoted from an online article...and it stands...Paul was using an allegorical explanation to make a point. We are allowed to actually read the Bible ourselves
and experience forgiveness directly through communion in prayer with God for the remission of our sins. We don't confess to a man who is just as sinful as we are.
Selene
New Member
Instead of making false accusations about our Church, it would be best if you simply ask what our Church teach about non-Catholic Christians. The Catholic Church teaches that Protestants and Orthodox Christians are our brothers in Christ despite the imperfect communion between us. That is in our Catechisms (CCC 838).Niki said:
What makes you think that Catholics are NOT allowed to read the Bible? And for your information, Catholics are taught that there is nothing wrong with going directly to God to confess their sins. If we are truly sorry and repentant of our sins and ask God for forgiveness, we know that He will forgive us.
As for going to the priest to ask forgiveness for sins, that is also okay. After all, Christ gave the authority to His Apostles (men) to forgive sins.
John 20:22-23 And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone's sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."
God has always used people as His instrument to carry out His work, so as you can see, we are not going against the Bible by going to our priests for confession. And because God uses people as His instruments, it is actually God who forgives us (through the priests). Furthermore, the Holy Bible also says to go to the priests for confessions and illnesses.
James 5:14-17 Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.
The elders of the Church are the priests. The Bible is telling us that if anyone among us is sick, to call the priests and the Church will pray over them. God will hear their prayer, and if the person who is sick has any sins, their sins will also be forgiven. The Holy Bible says that we can confess our sins to men, so we are not going against the Bible. If you prefer to simply confess your sins to God and not to anyone else, we don't have a problem with that. On the other hand, I don't understand why you have a problem with Catholics going to men to confess their sins. Like you, we also experience the forgiveness of sins directly from God when we go to confess our sins to our priests......because we know that God uses our priests as His instrument. It is actually God who forgives our sins, and we hear His voice speaking through the priest.
That's pretty interesting. You are constantly telling us that we don't have the correct interpretation ...apparently, only YOU have the right interpretation.
So, I would not be calling the kettle black so fast. You sure do get huffy in a hurry. No one is attacking you or your church. The problem is that you
cannot have a conversation with anyone without telling them they are wrong and you are right. So, what do you expect? I don't think you
are right and many others here do not think you are right. I want to know what the Bible says .... no what your interpretation is after you pick out a
verse and take it out of context to try and make it mean what you believe.
Nothing makes me think that. Is there some way you can express yourself with less vitriol? I don't want to discuss your religion...it keeps changing anyway. This thread is not about
how many rights Catholics have. Its about someone believing the church as mother...even though scripture does not teach that.
No, that is not what that verse means. Cherry picking again and taking the verse out of context and putting a different meaning on it does not make it true.
Only God can forgive sins, and Christ, being God, has the power to do so as well, but He never communicated any such power to His disciples, nor did they ever assume any such power to themselves. The key to understanding the meaning ofJohn 20:23lies in the previous two verses: “Again Jesus said, ‘Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.’ And with that he breathed on them and said, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit.’” He sent them, as He is sending us, to bring the good news of the way to salvation and heaven to the whole world. Jesus was leaving the earth physically but promised God would be with them in the person of the Holy Spirit living in them. As they proclaimed the gospel, they could honestly tell people who believed in that message that their sins were forgiven, and they could honestly tell people that did not believe in the message that their sins were not forgiven and that they stand condemned in God’s eyes. Jesus said, “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him” (John 3:36).
That is what it really means. The verse in context does not mean you can send someone to heaven or hell. You have no such power and neither did the Apostles.
Sorry. The Bible says to go to the elders...the only priests were in the Old Testament. First of all you say Jesus gave power to forgive sins to the Apostles but here you say
that it is really God who forgives. BUT you say God forgives THROUGH the priests...I hope you don't mean that they are an intermediary between people and God because
the only intermediary is the One appointed by God. Only Jesus work on the cross accomplished forgiveness.
Yes elders. Not priests. Elders are allowed to marry and have children. The Bible does not forbid a servant of the Lord to marry but I sure guess we had better not get
started on that one LOL!
Oh dear. You just had to take it that far. Well, OK.
The reason I left you in Crete was that you might put in order what was left unfinished and appointa elders in every town, as I directed you. 6An elder must be blameless, faithful to his wife, a man whose children believeb and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient. 7Since an overseer manages God’s household, he must be blameless—not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain. 8Rather, he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined. 9He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.
Titus chapter 1
Elders NOT priests and the Bible does NOT ever in one single place say they should not marry. Now a person can choose not to marry, but the Bible does not forbid it
and God made man and woman not two men or even one man.
I think we should leave that subject alone, but since you insist on bringing it up....just another place where you do not follow scripture but instead go waaaay off down another
path and then call it scripture even though the Bible says no such thing. Don;t say another person accuses you when actually the Bible accuses some of what is said here
Gee. That's good you don't have a problem with that. At this time in history.
God has that problem. He is the only One who can forgive because of the sacrifice of His Son. We should ask forgiveness from a person if we sin against them...but the Bible
does not instruct us to go a priest and confess.
I did not respond to your quotes because they do not apply to what I am saying and seemed like a smoke screen set up to avoid the issue. I do not know of anyone who thinks Jesus was referring to everyday use of the terms "father" or "teacher".Selene said:
What I was referring to was the Catholic Church's habit of taking titles that belong to ONLY the head, and applying it to themselves as the body (and then turning it into doctrine). To use a totally different example. The Church teaches that it alone contains the means to come to God, that it alone contains the full teachings of the Apostles, that outside of it is no salvation. In other words it is basically claiming to be "The Way, the Truth and the Life". ONLY Christ is The Way, the Truth, and the Life. Association with the Head does not give the Body the right to make claims that belong exclusively to the Head.
Selene
New Member
We never took God's title. As I have shown you in scripture, St. Paul called himself "father" and "teacher", but you have nothing to say about that as to why St. Paul did that? I provided you scriptures showing that Christ and the Apostles called men on earth who they were not related to as "father" and "teacher".day said:
Niki said:
Where in my post did I say that I am right and you are wrong?? When I give my viewpoint, I provide scripture to support my opinions and beliefs. The fact that you already stated the following statement in your Post #62 is already an accusation that our Church teaches intoleration toward our Christian brothers in other denominations.
Didn't you know that Christ also gave the Apostles the authority to perform miracles, heal the sick and raise the dead (See Acts 9:39). You say that Christ sent the Apostles to preach the good news.....and that is true. However, the FACT that the Apostles were able to heal the sick and raise the dead showed that Christ did MUCH MORE than just send them out to preach the good news. They were given the authority to heal the sick and raise the dead........and yes, they were also given the authority to forgive sins. It's all right there in the Bible.
God has always used people as His instruments to carry out His work. He sent prophets to speak to His chosen people. He worked miracles through them......and yes, He also used men to forgive sins. It's right there in Scripture. Christ told His Apostles that whoever sins they forgive, they are forgiven, and whoever sins they retained they are retained.
John 20:22-23 And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone's sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."
St. James even says that you can confess your sins to the elders of the Church.
James 5:14-17 Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.
"Elders" is another name for priests. The Greek word for "elders" is presbyteros. The Latin translation is "presbyter." Latin is the language of the Roman Catholic Church.
When the Greek word "presbyteros" was translated into Latin, the Latin word is "presbyter." The Old English translation is "priest." (See the Dictionary below).
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/priest?s=t
Well, then you shouldn't have started it.
You should have just asked first. Forbidding marriage is actually against the teachings of the Catholic Church. Let it be clear that the Catholic Church does not forbid marriage. Why? Because there are actually some married priests in the Catholic Church. You didn't know that....did you?? The Eastern Catholics do allow their priests to marry and married pastors who convert to Catholicism are allowed to stay married and still be ordained into the Catholic priesthood. Okay.....now let's take a closer look at what the bible says:
1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
Our Christian brothers often point to this scripture, telling us that bishops and priests can marry. Many times, our Christian brothers tell us that we should not FORCE our priests not to marry. The above scripture says that a bishop MUST be the husband of one wife.......does this mean that the bishop MUST marry?? I don't think so. My Church does not interpret this scripture that way, and I think that even you would agree that no one should be FORCED into marriage.
What the above scripture is really saying is that the bishop (if married) should be the husband of one wife.....NOT two wives or three wives or four wives. Polygamy was a problem in those days, which is the reason why St. Paul made it clear that a man should only be married to one woman.
We don't forbid our priests to marry because that would be against the bible (See 1 Timothy 4:3). On the other hand, we do have a right to establish priestly ordination just like any other Christian church. One of the requirements to ordination in the western Church (which is the Roman Catholic Church) is that our bishops and priests remain single, and they are aware of this. It was their choice to become a priest, knowing the requirements for ordination. The Eastern Catholics, on the other hand, still allow their priests to marry, and the Eastern Catholics are considered part of the Roman Catholic Church because they are in communion with Rome. That is their ordination requirements, and the Pope accepts their ordination requirements. So, this is not a matter of forcing our priests not to marry because no one is forcing them to become a priest in the Roman Catholic Church, and if they wish to be a married priest...... by all means......they can join the Eastern Catholics and still be part of the Roman Catholic Church. So, your gripe is actually about our ordination requirements. <_<
Now, are we going against the Bible in having this as part of the priestly ordination? No. Why? Because there is nothing in the Bible that specifies being married or being single as a requirement for ordination. In fact, being single is highly regarded in the Holy Bible.
Luke 20:34-35 Jesus replied, "The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage,
1 Corinthians 7:8 Now to the unmarried [fn] and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do.
1 Corinthians &:32-34 I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord's affairs—how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife—and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord's affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband.
And of course, we know that Jesus Christ was not married and He's our high priest.
Protestants don't understand the difference between a discipline and a doctrine. A discipline is an ecclesial matter; how the leadership conducts the affairs of the church. A discipline can be changed, a doctrine cannot. Bishops and presbyters marrying is not a doctrine, it's a discipline and can be changed if such a notion prevails at the Vatican.
You just cannot stop using the words like accuser, accusations. I find your responses are overly dramatic. You might calm down abit and not take it personally and then perhaps
the exchange would actually show an interest in the response rather than a defense strategy.
At any rate, the intoleration you speak so flamboyantly of, is well documented as the seat and stronghold of your own faith down through the ages. I don't care to make things personal, but that
is my response to you with regards to your inflammatory comments. Again, you need to stop being so defensive. No one is attacking you personally. I think you might
be having a problem with objectivity.
Yes, the verses are in the Bible but they do not mean what is posted according to you. It appears you believe that the Apostles themselves had the power to heal. The scripture
does not teach that, but rather that God heals in respect of those who follow Him. That is, the healing is in the name of Christ as is any other act of power outside of the possibility
of our own abilities. (my post 64 addresses this misconception also)
No one believes that. Priests in your denom have to be celibate. Seriously...who are you trying to kid. How about the Pope? Is he going to marry someone? That is the
ultimate conclusion of you stating that you do not forbid marriage. Of course you do and that is part of the problem of your priesthood. Better to marry then burn, the scripture states
and Paul acknowledges that not all can be as him...ie not married. You have entire gigantic monasteries full of unmarried men...less now then say 500 years ago, but please, no
one believes the Catholic church allows marriage as you are trying to suggest. I'm not even going to honor you with another response on this one.
Which is why priests have always encouraged their congregations to be fruitful and multiply and multiply and multiply . So there could be more single people.
Laugh? Cry? not sure on this one...unbelievable.
He was born to take away the sin of the world and whosever will may come. He was not born of the will of man, but the will of God.
Priests are human beings. Not God. They are obviously not above the temptations of their flesh as has come to light but let's not go there. It's too inconvenient.
In other words, there is only one God and it's not the priest in the local parish . According to scripture, he would be better off with one wife. As God intended from
the beginning by actually creating ONE of each.
Ahhh. Nothing like a little condescension . I can't wait to see you walk on water. yes. I'm being sarcastic. Yes I think it very fitting considering you exposed the truth aboutThis Vale Of Tears said:
how you are taught that yours is the only truth. Of course, it is not politically correct to say it. It just shows up when you can't help it and find it convenient to explain the
difference in interpretation.
How do you settle things? Like this: Oh those Protestants. What do they know anyway.
That seems to be the way that those of unlike faith to you, are ultimately addressed by your religious system. I guess one does not have to explain things to the satisfaction
of us stupid Protestants if one is inclined to believe we are incapable of said explanation.
Well, the Pope is still an infallible human being as are we all. There is only One God and anyone can know Him. Not just one faith no matter how much gold they have
stored in the basement.
Niki,
There are disagreements between Catholics and Protestants, there is no denying it, however, I think it is important to make sure we understand the actually teachings of the traditions we are disagreeing with. There is a tendency for people on both sides to misrepresent the teachings of the opposing tradition.
You pointed out Vale's comment about Protestants not understanding the difference between a discipline and a doctrine, for example - one the other side, Protestants often label Catholics as brainwashed by the Vatican. Neither generalization is very helpful because they are not accurate.
So I guess, we all need to examine our intentions for engaging in conversations about the differences - are we doing it to clarify teachings or just to fight.
There are disagreements between Catholics and Protestants, there is no denying it, however, I think it is important to make sure we understand the actually teachings of the traditions we are disagreeing with. There is a tendency for people on both sides to misrepresent the teachings of the opposing tradition.
You pointed out Vale's comment about Protestants not understanding the difference between a discipline and a doctrine, for example - one the other side, Protestants often label Catholics as brainwashed by the Vatican. Neither generalization is very helpful because they are not accurate.
So I guess, we all need to examine our intentions for engaging in conversations about the differences - are we doing it to clarify teachings or just to fight.
Hi aspen...I appreciate your moderate comments. My only purpose with regards to this thread is to refute the unbiblical interpretations and responses as
made evident by certain responders.
Please don't defend Vale. His comment shows the attitude at the heart of being unable to discuss things without the introduction of those Protestants
just don't understand that us Catholics have the real truth. From Selene, I am told I accuse if I disagree. I think you know that sort of attitude does nothing
but add fuel to the fire.
Selene considers disgreement an accusation...she generally turns things into a personal disagreement instead of leaving things in the realm of a discussion.
Vale generally takes the stance of "you don't know what you are talking about" and in once post asked if I was crazy.
So please aspen, I have respect for the way you interact here in the forums, but I am afraid I disagree with how many posts are considered an attack by one
person and another dismisses everything with a Protestants do not understand.
I don't understand why Selene cannot stay on point and why Vale has adopted a superior attitude.
This is and always has been the problem when two major Christian beliefs come together. Sooner or later Protestants are told they are inferior and sooner or
later Catholics are told they are not biblical and have accepted man made tradition in place of scripture.
The final nonsense is being told that Catholic priests are allowed to marry. And she appears to believe it!!!
Here is a recent article:
The only exception to a priest being allowed to marry is a man coming from another denom, who is already a Pastor (or similar) who is already married and wants to convert to Catholicism
Otherwise, priests have never been allowed to marry.
It seems Miss Selene has an answer for everything and whitewashes the truth just to present herself as always right.
That, is an attitude that makes for very difficult objectivity. When one person writes flying in your face untruths in order to call the other person, who has pointed out
something that cannot be denied, wrong, then surly the point is really only about being right in a personal way and not about truth at all.
I find this interesting
made evident by certain responders.
Please don't defend Vale. His comment shows the attitude at the heart of being unable to discuss things without the introduction of those Protestants
just don't understand that us Catholics have the real truth. From Selene, I am told I accuse if I disagree. I think you know that sort of attitude does nothing
but add fuel to the fire.
Selene considers disgreement an accusation...she generally turns things into a personal disagreement instead of leaving things in the realm of a discussion.
Vale generally takes the stance of "you don't know what you are talking about" and in once post asked if I was crazy.
So please aspen, I have respect for the way you interact here in the forums, but I am afraid I disagree with how many posts are considered an attack by one
person and another dismisses everything with a Protestants do not understand.
I don't understand why Selene cannot stay on point and why Vale has adopted a superior attitude.
This is and always has been the problem when two major Christian beliefs come together. Sooner or later Protestants are told they are inferior and sooner or
later Catholics are told they are not biblical and have accepted man made tradition in place of scripture.
The final nonsense is being told that Catholic priests are allowed to marry. And she appears to believe it!!!
Here is a recent article:
The only exception to a priest being allowed to marry is a man coming from another denom, who is already a Pastor (or similar) who is already married and wants to convert to Catholicism
Otherwise, priests have never been allowed to marry.
It seems Miss Selene has an answer for everything and whitewashes the truth just to present herself as always right.
That, is an attitude that makes for very difficult objectivity. When one person writes flying in your face untruths in order to call the other person, who has pointed out
something that cannot be denied, wrong, then surly the point is really only about being right in a personal way and not about truth at all.
I find this interesting
Niki,
Thanks for your response. I think people react differently when they feel defensive - I can get really sarcastic and over generalize - I have to always try to take a step back and realize that I might be over identifying with my beliefs. I am just talking about me, btw, not you, Vale, or Selene.
Also, you do not have to share your purpose or intentions to me - you can post whatever you want, for whatever reason; all I am saying is that I think clarifying intentions to ourselves helps to maintain distance between or thoughts and ideas and who we are so that we do not feel attacked or like we need to attack. It helps me, anyway.
As far as priests not marrying, personally, I think it is an outdated practice, but I do not believe it is at the root of the abuse in the RCC or anti-biblical. From the history I have read, it grew out of the need to stop the clergy from willing church property to their children. It is not popular with Catholics, but it is my educated opinion.
Does it affect my decision to be Catholic? No. I am comfortable with disagreement on issues that I see as minor and besides, if I am wrong about my opinion, God and I will have a good laugh about it someday.
In the meantime, I will continue to practice loving my neighbor and discussing doctrine as my hobby.
Thanks for your response. I think people react differently when they feel defensive - I can get really sarcastic and over generalize - I have to always try to take a step back and realize that I might be over identifying with my beliefs. I am just talking about me, btw, not you, Vale, or Selene.
Also, you do not have to share your purpose or intentions to me - you can post whatever you want, for whatever reason; all I am saying is that I think clarifying intentions to ourselves helps to maintain distance between or thoughts and ideas and who we are so that we do not feel attacked or like we need to attack. It helps me, anyway.
As far as priests not marrying, personally, I think it is an outdated practice, but I do not believe it is at the root of the abuse in the RCC or anti-biblical. From the history I have read, it grew out of the need to stop the clergy from willing church property to their children. It is not popular with Catholics, but it is my educated opinion.
Does it affect my decision to be Catholic? No. I am comfortable with disagreement on issues that I see as minor and besides, if I am wrong about my opinion, God and I will have a good laugh about it someday.
In the meantime, I will continue to practice loving my neighbor and discussing doctrine as my hobby.
Niki and Aspen2,
How refreshing to read your last posts! I had quit coming to this website some time ago because of the name-calling and belittling of anyone with an opinion different than the dominant players. I have ventured back because I too like to discuss doctrine in a "hobby" not "life and death" way. I enjoy learning what other people believe and I usually am enriched by their perspective. Hopefully, more and more people will adopt the discussion rather than instruction format and make this a really fantastic site.
How refreshing to read your last posts! I had quit coming to this website some time ago because of the name-calling and belittling of anyone with an opinion different than the dominant players. I have ventured back because I too like to discuss doctrine in a "hobby" not "life and death" way. I enjoy learning what other people believe and I usually am enriched by their perspective. Hopefully, more and more people will adopt the discussion rather than instruction format and make this a really fantastic site.
Selene
New Member
Are you referring to the Inquisition....something that happened hundreds of years ago?? Is the Inquisition still happening today that you feel that you have to make this statement below?Niki said:
If you look at MY post #63, (which is before YOUR Post #64) this is what I posted to you.
From Selene: Taken from Post #63: God has always used people as His instrument to carry out His work, so as you can see, we are not going against the Bible by going to our priests for confession. And because God uses people as His instruments, it is actually God who forgives us (through the priests). Furthermore, the Holy Bible also says to go to the priests for confessions and illnesses.
Did you not read my post?? It is clear from my post that I stated that God uses people as His instruments to carry out His works. It has always been God where the powers of healing, raising the dead, and forgiveness of sins comes from. Christ gave His Apostles the authority to do all these things, but the power has always come from God. And now, YOU are telling me that it's God who heals instead of the Apostles?? <_<
Niki,
if you look under this whole thread, you will see that YOU were the first one to start attacking the Catholic Church instead of sticking to the subject of the thread. It goes back to YOUR Post #54. Everyone under this thread was talking about the "New Jerusalem" being a "Church" and a "Mother." I stated in my posts that both Catholics and some Protestants view the "New Jerusalem" as a Church and posted some Protestant commentaries on the "New Jerusalem." Then Vale came in and answered your post. This is what Vale stated in his post #53:
There was nothing in Vales' post saying anything negative about any Protestant denomination. He was speaking of the Heavenly Jerusalem and some of the things you may have missed.
And this is YOUR response to him, which is post #54. Look at what I placed in bold in your post. Look at how you started out your response. Everyone under this thread was speaking about the New Jerusalem and did not say anything negative about any denomination. It was YOU who did that:
As you can see in YOUR own post....YOU were the FIRST one who started the attack on the Catholic Church. Nothing in this post says anything about the "Heavenly Jerusalem".
I've been doing discussion boards for over a decade and I've noticed one governing trait in all of them.....us humans! Yes, we go through cycles and moods. Sometimes we're diplomatic and echumenical, sometimes snotty, sometimes contrite, sometimes on the attack, and all of us prolific in misunderstandings, insecurities, and blindnesses.day said:
I've learned not to take any of it personally, especially when I even find myself doing the very same thing I pounced on somebody else for doing!
Pilgrimer
Active Member
That depends on what you mean by "the church."
If by "the church" you mean a particular denominational body, then yes, it is possible to have God as our Father without having a particular denominational body as our mother.
But if by "the church" you mean the worldwide body of believers regardless of denominational affiliation, then no, you can't have God as your father without being a part of the body of Christ.
The tragedy is that far too many of those who are members of the various denominational bodies are in fact strangers to God and aliens to His Kingdom.
In Christ,
Pilgrimer
If by "the church" you mean a particular denominational body, then yes, it is possible to have God as our Father without having a particular denominational body as our mother.
But if by "the church" you mean the worldwide body of believers regardless of denominational affiliation, then no, you can't have God as your father without being a part of the body of Christ.
The tragedy is that far too many of those who are members of the various denominational bodies are in fact strangers to God and aliens to His Kingdom.
In Christ,
Pilgrimer
Selene
New Member
I've also been doing discussion boards, and I've learned never to take any attacks personally.This Vale Of Tears said:
aspen2 said:
Hi aspen
No problem re the posting...I didn't think you were being nosy or anything. I don't have an agenda ^_^
Priests not marrying are not the focus of this thread, just another point I made regarding extra-biblical teaching and by the way, I believe one of the articles
I linked to actually mentions that as being extra-biblical. I'm not trying to get points here, I'm just saying it seems there is a very big diversity in how your
faith is interpreted yet that same faith will point at Protestants and say that very thing. So...I get irked when someone represents themself as the bearer
of the truth when y'all can't even agree among yourselves...and I'm aware that neither do we and that is my point.
Telling someone they cannot marry is not in the Bible. The Cahtolic church has definately said this to it's priests and if they haven't then why don't they marry?
Again, one of the links in my post has this as the intro: Britain's most senior Roman Catholic, Cardinal Keith O'Brien, has spoken out on the issue of celibacy, saying priests should be allowed to marry and have children.
So I'm not imagining things....unless the Cardinal is also delusional. That's what I mean. Denial over well known facts or saying you don't understand is sheer nonsense
in the light of the massive amounts of info that are there for any and all to peruse. (I'm not meaning this at you personally...but certain people here make this there MO)
Loving your neighbor has God's blessing....and I guess you cannot change anyone's elses behavior anymore than I can.
Thanks
I tend to believe you. Thanks ... however, that is as generous as I'm getting because the latest post addressed to me, which I am going to ignore becauseThis Vale Of Tears said:
it's a ridiculous merry go round, does not have, and never has once it gets wound up, an impartial source. I've had the pleasure in another forum but
that's another story. I'm still in that forum...someone else left because everyone kept telling her to calm down and be nice.
No, I don't use the same name, so no use looking
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