Catholics

[amadeus]

hey, if Saul could be converted, then so can...anyone, i guess. Ppl are often given the idea that God needs to be defended, and we natch attach our perceptions of God to our religious sect, because the sect has an agenda, right (not saying that agendas are necessarily "bad.")

No, God requires no defense, but sometimes we by our convictions are required to provide one anyway.

 

[bbyrd009]

No, God requires no defense, but sometimes we by our convictions are required to provide one anyway.

sure, even if that is "desired" more than required, i guess.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I guess it depends upon what it means to be faithful. You are judging me by what you think you see now, but you know nothing of what was well over 50 years ago. I was out of church, any church, for 14 years from the time I was last actively Catholic to the time I was actively anything else. There was no direct connection between the two.

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:" Ecc 3:1
A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;" Ecc 3:7

And this still smacks of an ignorance of the faith.
You simply didn't know what the Church actually taught - or you would never have left.

 

[BreadOfLife]

it prolly seems evil in the moment, but we actually need...opposers, in order for truth to be contrasted with lies, or i guess "untruth" would be a better way to put it, as the deceived usually are not lying intentionally, i don't think. So, the deceived serve a purpose.

Yes, you certainly do.
You allow for the truth to expose the deceit.

 

[amadeus]

And the mark of an ungodly person is one who lies about others because it violates those commandments..
I never said that you or anybody else was "hell bound." I never even implied it.

If you guys can put your heads together and TRY to be honest for a change - we might have a fruitful conversation here . . .

If I had been talking about you specifically, I would have mentioned your name or I would have spoken directly to you. Actually, I cannot recall any Catholic on this forum saying anything like "hell bound" with regard to non-Catholics. I certainly have encountered some non-Catholics who at least implied it about those who opposed them. I am sorry that you thought I meant you. For the misunderstanding I do nonetheless sincerely apologize.

 

[amadeus]

And this still smacks of an ignorance of the faith.
You simply didn't know what the Church actually taught - or you would never have left.

Well God does know my heart as He knew it then. Along with King David I'd rather be in God's hands than in any man's because He does know all of the facts and judges fairly.

Give God the glory!

 

[EndTimeWine]

This is not a debate thread, but is a thread where we could learn more about Catholics, these are all pretty basic questions I'm starting this thread of with, but I think a lot of us other Christians have been taught wrongly about the Catholics. Now i would rather hear from Catholics themselves, about what are the differences between Catholics to other Christians are? What makes a Catholic a Catholic? What are the traditions in the Catholic Church? What's the significance of Mary the mother of Jesus to the Catholics? When did the Catholic Church start? What were the original Catholics like compared to today?

Others please feel free to ask questions to our Catholic members on this forum as well, but please try not to turn this into a debate..... If that's possible. Lets give the Catholics a fair go.

I am non-denominational. I like to seek out truth from all denominations. I am simply Christian, my denomination ( using this as a play on words)- is the Body of Christ. I look at the Judaeo Christian faith as a lesson in experiences through time. And how man has claimed the Word in their denominations as something for them to solely understand and interpret and feed to the masses. I believe denominations seek to dominate people through religion. I believe there are and were true believers in the RCC. It has had positive as well as negative influences on people and societies across the globe.The Dogma in which it is built upon is true. Dogma: a principle or set of principles LAID DOWN BY AN AUTHORITY (CHRIST) as incontrovertibly true. This Dogma is there. It is man who has proven to be fallible not the Dogma.And the controversy is because of man not the Dogma. Unfortunately fallible men have caused the RCC to be rejected by many. This has spawned apostates and denominations. These other denominations, because of the heresies of Popes have not only rejected the Popes but much of the dogma of the faith as well.

Rome has served its part in bringing the Dogma of the faith to the world. The RCC is not the first church. The middle eastern Churches are. However, Rome being the Super Power of the time,( became through the introduction of Christianity and its accepting of it), the religious hub of Christianity. With that said, their had to be true followers of Christ in it. Rome for many centuries, was all people had to receive and learn doctrine from.

To discredit completely all RCC doctrine is unintelligent. To assume true Christianity was only established by the Protestants is also unintelligent. Protestantism began in the 12th century and did not become relevant until the 16th century. While the RCC was established centuries before. I would say the legalization in 313 by Emperor Constantine the 1st, began the establishment of Christianity as Romes religion with its subsequent establishment fully in 380. This happened under Emperor Theodosius. 380 is the official RCC . And still yet the Middle Eastern ,(I will call it Orthodox for the sake of argument) is where the RCC received it's first recorded doctrine of the faith. First by the Jews, and for the Jews. For all scripture is delivered through them.

What were the beliefs of the early church? When that is established you can credit or discredit all others by the first churches teachings. I will address MARY! This seems to be a bone of contention for Protestants and a quarrelsome debate between the RCC and them.The bottom line is, the WORD OF GOD MUST SUPPORT ALL DOCTRINES ascribed to by man. Does scripture support veneration of Mary? Yes!

Have a bible on hand. I am not going to do a data drop of knowledge which is available through reading scripture along with commentary. Luke1:26-35, the arch angel Gabriel in these verses says, "Hail full of grace, the Lord is with you!' The angel is venerating Mary, and exclaiming she is full of grace. VENERATION: to show great respect and love, adoration. She is also venerated by Elisabeth, whom she visited, Luke1:42, and she EXCLAIMED with a loud cry, "Blessed are YOU AMONG women, and BLESSED is the FRUIT of your womb! This is veneration in the true sense of the word. And is the sum of the Rosary which is scriptural and is not sinful, no matter how many times the scriptural words are said, it does take away from their holiness.

Is Mary a visitor of souls? Yes! As she was purposed by Christ to be and this is verified by scripture through the visitation to Elisabeth. Ones role never changes in Christ. A title given to Mary, "THE IMMACULATE CONCEPTION". This was revealed to Bernadette Soubirous at Lords. Is this a true apparition? Well, lets look at what the faithful are to do to test spirits, 1 John4:1-3, Beloved do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see if whether they are of God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you will no the Spirit of God, : every spirit which confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit which does not confess Jesus is not of God. This is the spirit of antichrist, of which you heard that it was coming, and now it is in the world already.

So, we learn John says test the SPIRITS to see if they are of God. This suggest people can receive visitations from those of the Spirit of God. Is Mary of the Spirit of God? what happened when Bernadette saw the "Beautiful Lady" as she called her? Bernadette upon the second time of this happening to her threw HOLY WATER at the apparition and said, "If you are not of God go away". Mary precedes to take out Rosary beads and lead Bernadette in the confession of faith which states , Christ has come in the flesh, which is the statement " BLESSED IS THE FRUIT OF YOUR WOMB,JESUS" which is a statement exclaimed by Elisabeth to Mary and is to confess CHRIST HAS COME IN THE FLESH! SEAL OF APPROVAL! THIS APPARITION GETS AN (A+)
for authenticity.

When Mary revealed she is the "IMMACULATE CONCEPTION" she did not reveal what this meant. Here in lies the problem for the RCC. The RCC teaches Mary is the Immaculate conception because she was conceived without the stain of original sin. This is true, but the timing of when this happened is off. The RCC says she was conceived without sin in her mothers womb. This is not true. If it were it would mean Mary was conceived by the Holy Spirit in her mothers womb, she was not. She was conceived by natural conception, Christ is the only one conceived outside of natural conception through supernatural conception. Also, because she was conceived by natural conception the stain of original was there. For her to be without this her whole family lineage would have to be sinless which contradicts Romans3:23-24, since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, they are JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE as a gift through the redemption which is in Christ, Jesus. It is by grace we are saved. What did Gabriel say to Mary ?, "Hail Mary FULL OF GRACE"? And the song of Mary, she says: Luke 1:46-55, " My soul magnifies the Lord and MY SPIRIT REJOICES IN GOD MY SAVIOR, for he has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden. For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed; for He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name.

I'll end there to elaborate on this. Mary calls God her Savior. She became the Immaculate Conception because she immaculately conceived by the Holy Spirit. When the power of God overshadowed her, she herself had to be made immaculate to hold within her the Son of the Most high. The Word could only be in a spotlessly clean vessel. She is the Lords first work of Christianity. She is the Immaculate Conception. She was instantly transformed at the Immaculate Conception and Incarnation of Christ. Scripture supports this Dogma.

Pope Pius IX instituted this Dogma in 1854, However, it is not the correct definition as to how and why she is the Immaculate Conception. Also, Romans 9:20 states: But who are you, a man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, 'Why have you made me thus?" Has the potter no right over the clay , to make out of the same LUMP on vessel for beauty and another for menial use?
We are all of the same LUMP, but Mary is used for beauty. And the fullness of that beauty is of God. We should not deny or question the will of God.
As I said, I am non denominational. God has purposed me to give clarity to the faithful. The Rev.12 sign is the signal to let us know we are in a new season for the the Body Of Christ. A time for edifying and soundness is upon us. I have much more to reveal about Mary's role for the Body of Christ.

In conclusion, the first church venerated her and so will the last. I know which apparitions are true, and the meaning of the messages for the elect who embrace her. Mary has always appeared to the little people and laity, not to the high positioned. Her messages tend to be rejected by the Higher Archy, until they see how the lower stationed people rejoice over her messages. Mary always admonishes those in high positions in her messages. She only seeks to preserve the true faithful. Rev,17-18 is at hand and is about the Harlot Vatican which has become Masonic and is going to fall! When this happens the Hallelujah will commence, Rev19. the wedding feast of the Lamb! Blessed are those who are called to it!

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, you certainly do.
You allow for the truth to expose the deceit.

exactly. And All are deceived, so it would be incorrect for me to say unequivocally that i am in truth, or that you are deceived. I might as likely be the one deceived in a given situation, and "truth" is really only discerned between the two opinions, iow you need both, i think. One is useless without the other. I can state "I have the truth, and you better listen to me" all i like, this does not make what i said truth, even if it is backed up by a Scripture!

pretty weird, guess i better get my duckies in a row for that one lol

 

[bbyrd009]

You simply didn't know what the Church actually taught

i think Inquisition, Indulgences, and Indiscretions all pretty much speak for themselves; not that a Catholic cannot come to the Church of Living Stones if they seek and knock though. And still call themselves a Catholic, if they like, who cares? As long as they have grasped true confession, rebound, Passover, etc.

 

[ScottA]

We didn't make the choice to build the Church on Peter - Jesus did.
YOUR problem is with Him - not me . . .

Jesus chose to presented two paths to follow. You chose Peter, rather than the spirit of God. Bad [finite] choice. But - go ahead...blame Jesus. See what that gets you.

No - the plain fact of the matter is that YOU and most of Protestantism rejected what the Holy Spirit revealed in favor of what mere men decided.
You guys chose to delete those 7 Books that Jesus and the NT writers all quoted from or alluded to over 150 times in the NT.

Good luck with that . . .

We don't have providence over God's word - He does. So...now you blame God for our choice. Nice.

 

[bbyrd009]

If I had been talking about you specifically, I would have mentioned your name or I would have spoken directly to you.

ha ya, i noticed the same thing going on at "the deceived serve a purpose."

gee, i wonder what hell is, lol

 

[amadeus]

sure, even if that is "desired" more than required, i guess.

This may also be so.

 

[amadeus]

ha ya, i noticed the same thing going on at "the deceived serve a purpose."

gee, i wonder what hell is, lol

I try not to get into hell in a conversation because some say it is quite hot.

Nonetheless I believe that very often that is exactly where we are while we are here. Jesus did come from the Father down to hell, did he not? He came to us in our hell to open the Way to a better place.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Jesus chose to presented two paths to follow. You chose Peter, rather than the spirit of God. Bad [finite] choice. But - go ahead...blame Jesus. See what that gets you.

I chose to believe in what Jesus told Peter.
YOU chose to reject what He said to him i, favor of what your Protestant Fathers decided.

God will not be mocked - nor will he be disobeyed.

We don't have providence over God's word - He does. So...now you blame God for our choice. Nice.

I don't blame God for your rejection of His Word.
On the contrary - YOU chose to follow what prideful, rebellious men decided in the 16th century instead of what the Holy Spirit revealed in the 4th century.

 

[BreadOfLife]

exactly. And All are deceived, so it would be incorrect for me to say unequivocally that i am in truth, or that you are deceived. I might as likely be the one deceived in a given situation, and "truth" is really only discerned between the two opinions, iow you need both, i think. One is useless without the other. I can state "I have the truth, and you better listen to me" all i like, this does not make what i said truth, even if it is backed up by a Scripture!

pretty weird, guess i better get my duckies in a row for that one lol

If your "church" is wrong about ANY doctrinal matter - then you're not part of Christ's Church because His is never wrong about teaching on faith and morals.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well God does know my heart as He knew it then. Along with King David I'd rather be in God's hands than in any man's because He does know all of the facts and judges fairly.

Give God the glory!

That's just just it - you HAVE put our faith in men instead of God when you chose to leave His Church and follow the aberrant teachings of your Protestant Fathers.

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't blame God for your rejection of His Word.

so nice of you; and we do not blame you for not having found Word yet, just so you know.

 

[bbyrd009]

instead of what the Holy Spirit revealed in the 4th century.

ah, are you referring to the Inquisition, or the Crusades, or Indulgences, or just what here, BoD?
Defend your Whore some more for us, if you will
Show us how perfect you are

 

[bbyrd009]

If your "church" is wrong about ANY doctrinal matter

but you do not know what "Church" means, either, so i prefer to go by your fruit, wadr

when you chose to leave His Church

see? You are enmeshed in a cult, in a way that many Catholics are not.

 

[bbyrd009]

and follow the aberrant teachings of your Protestant Fathers.

um, i don't think amadeus considers himself a Protestant?

But you don't care, because that doesn't fit your monologue, right.

Wait for it, we oughtta be hearing about the "10,000 perpetually-splintering sects" here any minute, lol. So retarded.