Catholics

[bbyrd009]

but his word is not error,

i guess a lot of this depends upon one's definitions for some various terms, that we all seem to have differing definitions of.
So, in this case, it depends upon how "Word" is defined, etc.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Hi Micheal........So well put ! And yes: Of course He is even in corrupted places, He can, after what he accomplished on the cross and immediately after. He can go to absolutely anywhere where a 'heart' is calling out to Him, there is only one thing He told me and showed me a few different ways, that He cannot do / or cannot stand with, and that is this ....He cannot stand WITH a person in opposition to Him and He cannot BE with a person, who outright disbelieves or rejects Him, as He would then have to be in opposition to Himself and stand rejecting Himself, and clearly He cannot disbelieve in Himself... He makes me laugh a lot, because honestly, it's embarrassing in a way to me, how I can complicate some things, and once He explains it, I realize, that even a 10 year old would completely understand it. He has NEVER made me feel bad, I do that all by myself. I just have to hold on to Him for dear life at all times and when I don't understand something, I will ask and wait for the answer, too easy ! So nice to have met you here.........Blessings and Peace in and through Him..............Pia

Thank you for your kindness. Albert Einstein said, "When the answer is simple, God is speaking." Humans complicate things because they try to make reality fit their imagination and we know what the Lord says about the imagination of men.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Hello 'michaelpardo'.......How lovely to read your response to this. Wouldn't it really be something when the time comes when we will all get it into our 'thick' heads ( lol) that to fight each other, is in exact opposition to His will and profits nothing. Well answered !..........Peace In Him.......Pia

I hope to see it as unification of the body is part of my mission.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Several issues are in play here: Vatican I, teachings/misuse of statues, rosaries; however, you've mentioned nothing related to worship. As far as Vatican I is concerned - it is very likely that I would have never joined the Catholic Church before 1965 because I believe the church placed too much power in the hands of the clergy. People who worship statues are engaged in superstitious, pagan practices. People who pray in front of a statue and ask a Saint to pray for them/with them are Catholic/Coptic/Orthodox/Anglican. The difference between asking for prayer and worshipping has been explained at nausium, all over this board so I am not going to repeat it; it is safe to say that Catholics and Protestants disagree on this topic. A frustration for me, is when people from other groups insist that I am practicing my own beliefs incorrectly - it is disrespectful and reminds me of the reframing that occurs in extreme politics.

Once again, people have a tendency to be superstitious, regardless of creed.

Ideally we should never be an offense to a brother or sister in the Lord, but young Christians sometimes are very much like young lions and the play of young lions gets serious when they start reaching maturity and seek a natural position of dominance. If the Lord has blessed men for following the traditions of their fathers (and he has in more than one of His peoples: consider the Chinese) then its safe to assume that He honors those who seek Him within the confines of their own tradition. Even the Hebrew saints were confined under the restrictions of the Law and under the ministry of angels until the arrival of Christ and His kingdom. The fact that they rejected Him initially remained part of His sovereign plan, but clearly the Lord has continued to bless the Jewish people in the world, even while under the afflictions that He imposed for their faithlessness and rejection of Him. In other words, God really likes it when people honor their fathers and mothers, even if they aren't Christian or Jewish. My understanding of the official stance of Rome is that the leadership of the RCC anticipates that the protestants will eventually come back under their authority. Since many modern protestants are former Roman Catholics, I doubt that this will ever happen (if you had a valid reason to leave, why would you ever go back?)
I attempt to minister to and to correct Roman Catholic brothers or sisters, only so that they may know the fullness of a personal relationship with their God, yet this never seemed to be a big concern among the priesthood (and would tend to make them obsolete.)
I think that its awful that there should be such animosity within the family of God, but I suspect that this is the work of the tares among the wheat and there isn't much to be done about it until the angels start sorting things out.

 

[michaelvpardo]

So that gives the church permission to worship the sun?

You sound kind of young and I don't mean that as a criticism because we all were young once. The Roman Catholics don't worship the sun, they just use symbols to represent God and His attributes which were also used by pagan religions such as that of the Egyptian Pharaoh Akhenaten, who attempted to introduce a monotheistic system of belief in Egypt back around 1300 BC. Akhenaten used the rays of the sun as symbolic of God's grace and favor shining down upon the world, but saw the sun as a symbol representing God, as the Hebrews did as well. This greatly annoyed the priests of Ra, actual sun worshipers, and after Akhenaten's death they went to great pains to eradicate his beliefs and the memory of his works. When the RCC priest lifts up the host in that widget that has rays coming out of it, he has in mind lifting up Christ as the bread of life. Who are you or I to judge the validity of some symbolic tradition? I'm only offended when tradition thwarts the grace of God.

 

[michaelvpardo]

No disrespect toward your mother - but she was wrong and didn't really understand her faith - IF what you're saying is true.

The Bible tells us that those in Heaven take our prayers to God (Rev. 5:8) - and Rev. 8:5 shows the Angels in Heaven doing the SAME thing.
It's not because God is "too busy". It is the SAME intercession as when we ask somebody on earth to pray for us because we are ALL part of the same Body.

Can YOU show me a verse of Scripture that teaches that those in Heaven have been kicked out of the Body of Christ??

If she was wrong, wasn't it the responsibility of the church to teach her the truth? My mom wasn't unique, the RCC has millions of people who don't know their left hand from their right when it comes to sound doctrine, and this by design. I don't hold the laity responsible for their ignorance, but those who have joined the priest hood for a life of ease or luxury and without the smallest faith (and many have over the centuries) will be judged harshly at His coming. Unfortunately this is always the case with the church regardless of denomination and the evangelical church in the western world suffers the same issues as the RCC, dealing with false gospels, prosperity doctrines, get out of jail for free doctrines (I liked monopoly when I was young), works based salvation (you must tithe or you can't possibly be faithful) and the like. I have no idea what you mean by your last question as this is nothing I stated or implied, but like my wife, you seem to be a bit confused and possibly have some reading comprehension problems.

 

[Job]

The Roman Catholics don't worship the sun, they just use symbols to represent God and His attributes which were also used by pagan religions such as that of the Egyptian Pharaoh Akhenaten,

If the RCC is using pagan sun worship symbols in their worship services, they most definitely are worshiping the sun.

 

[BreadOfLife]

If she was wrong, wasn't it the responsibility of the church to teach her the truth? My mom wasn't unique, the RCC has millions of people who don't know their left hand from their right when it comes to sound doctrine, and this by design. I don't hold the laity responsible for their ignorance, but those who have joined the priest hood for a life of ease or luxury and without the smallest faith (and many have over the centuries) will be judged harshly at His coming. Unfortunately this is always the case with the church regardless of denomination and the evangelical church in the western world suffers the same issues as the RCC, dealing with false gospels, prosperity doctrines, get out of jail for free doctrines (I liked monopoly when I was young), works based salvation (you must tithe or you can't possibly be faithful) and the like. I have no idea what you mean by your last question as this is nothing I stated or implied, but like my wife, you seem to be a bit confused and possibly have some reading comprehension problems.

If your mother was wrong - she didn
't learn those erros from the Church. It sounds like she fashioned her own set of beliefs that deviated from Church doctrine.
If she had questions - then she shoulod have approached her priest. The Church cannot be held responsilble when one of its members veers away from doctrine.

As for the life of "ease & luxury" that you say priests are accustomed to - I don't know what you're using ass a reference but that is NOT the case with the parishes I've been in contact with.
The priests are hard-working men with almost zero time for anything other than servicing the needs of the parish - and they are usually overwhelmed by the sheer size of the parish.

As for my question - I don't have a "reading comprehension" problem. I asked it because YOU said that we asked the saints to pray for us because we believe that God is "too busy" to deal with the minutia of our lives.

Asking fellow members of the Body of Christ to pray for us is repeated over and over in Scripture - so my question stands:
Can YOU show me a verse of Scripture that teaches that those in Heaven have been kicked out of the Body of Christ??

Finally - your bizarre view that the fact that many people don't know their faith is "by design" is preposterous.
You actually believe that the Church confuses people on purpose??

What would be the logic in that??

 

[michaelvpardo]

You mean, even though the Catholic Church proclaimed that Scripture was the inerrant Word of God for 1500 years prior to the Protestant Revolt - that didn't make you understand??

If a pope denies the creation story in favor of evolution and at least one has, then by his denial he has proclaimed the scripture errant (every spoken word is one by which we are judged.) The truth, which you cannot suppress, is that the church frequently supports and frequently obviates what the scripture says, just like the pharisees did with the law of Moses. E.G.: God said this in scripture, but what He said is not what He meant and we are the only ones that can tell you what He meant (absolute hogwash.) You might ask for examples, so give me any current document on church doctrine from any of the last 3 popes and I'll be happy to point out the transgressions. I find it almost humorous that the RCC doctrines commonly found offensive among the saints are mainly those which separate men from God or put distance between men and God. No man has the right to come between you and your God, and no man except Jesus can intercede between you and your God, and He is happy to do it. Hallelujah what a savior! Amen.

 

[michaelvpardo]

If the RCC is using pagan sun worship symbols in their worship services, they most definitely are worshiping the sun.

I don't think you understand what worship is. Worship is expressed at times with the body (in symbolic ways) but is an act of the heart and unless you know a person's heart there is no way to judge their actions.

 

[BreadOfLife]

If a pope denies the creation story in favor of evolution and at least one has, then by his denial he has proclaimed the scripture errant (every spoken word is one by which we are judged.) The truth, which you cannot suppress, is that the church frequently supports and frequently obviates what the scripture says, just like the pharisees did with the law of Moses. E.G.: God said this in scripture, but what He said is not what He meant and we are the only ones that can tell you what He meant (absolute hogwash.) You might ask for examples, so give me any current document on church doctrine from any of the last 3 popes and I'll be happy to point out the transgressions. I find it almost humorous that the RCC doctrines commonly found offensive among the saints are mainly those which separate men from God or put distance between men and God. No man has the right to come between you and your God, and no man except Jesus can intercede between you and your God, and He is happy to do it. Hallelujah what a savior! Amen.

WHICH Pope "denied" the Creation story in favor of evolution??
This is a false and indefensible statement.

By the way - I know exactly what you're talking about - but as usual, the anti-Catholic garbage some spewing forth instead of the facts.
Anyway - I'd like to hear YOU explain yourself.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Why not wait for them to prove their counter point?


You post as someone who is not that aware of Catholic doctrine. Maybe just here to argue with Christians?
The reason I make that observation is, you didn't know about Mary the Queen of Heaven as pertains to Catholic teachings. In fact you defamed that as something heathens believe. Irony not withstanding, now you have said what I quote of you above.

If you think you're standing up for the actual Roman Catholics here you're very mistaken in those two instances where you demonstrate great ignorance of their faith.
Your observation concerning saints in the church for instance. No saint was ever a good person. It's interesting that you'd make that statement when actual Roman Catholics pray to dead people called saints. By authority of the Pope who decreed they are that. Catholics pray to what are dead people. That's necromancy. And they ask them to give them a boon acting as emissaries on their behalf to God their Father.
Why can't they just ask God?
Because they're trained to pray to Saints.

Maybe learn something about the RCC faith before trying to defend it here. Because thus far, you're not very good at faking what you clearly do not know to those who do know about the Roman Catholic faith.

Roman Catholic Practices

Having attended Catechism as a child through my first confession, my first communion, my confirmation and actually being a Roman Catholic under law, I think that I know something of RCC practice (at least as it was about 20 years ago). Would you like to see a picture of me trying to look dutiful and holy with my rosary wrapped around my hands and my confirmation pin on my child's sports jacket? I speak of what I know, but you transgress.

 

[michaelvpardo]

WHICH Pope "denied" the Creation story in favor of evolution??
This is a false and indefensible statement.

By the way - I know exactly what you're talking about - but as usual, the anti-Catholic garbage some spewing forth instead of the facts.
Anyway - I'd like to hear YOU explain yourself.

John Paul for one, though I admired him.

 

[michaelvpardo]

WHICH Pope "denied" the Creation story in favor of evolution??
This is a false and indefensible statement.

By the way - I know exactly what you're talking about - but as usual, the anti-Catholic garbage some spewing forth instead of the facts.
Anyway - I'd like to hear YOU explain yourself.

I will meet you any time and any place to explain myself, but your reading comprehension is so poor that it must be in person.

 

[Job]

I don't think you understand what worship is. Worship is expressed at times with the body (in symbolic ways) but is an act of the heart and unless you know a person's heart there is no way to judge their actions.

1 Thessalonians 5
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.


If they're using things that are strictly forbidden in the scriptures, I don't need to know their heart. It's already on full display.

k

 

[michaelvpardo]

1 Thessalonians 5
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.


If they're using things that are strictly forbidden in the scriptures, I don't need to know their heart. It's already on full display.

k

Did you know that some Jewish folks remain Jews because they will not break away from their families and be disowned? Only a fool would blame people for their leadership and you don't seem a fool. What is it that you are trying to accomplish by making war against people who lift up the name of Jesus Christ?

 

[Job]

What is it that you are trying to accomplish by making war against people who lift up the name of Jesus Christ?

I'm not warring against people. I'm bringing to light the pagan practices of the RCC.

 

[michaelvpardo]

1 Thessalonians 5
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.


If they're using things that are strictly forbidden in the scriptures, I don't need to know their heart. It's already on full display.

k

Just a little biblical support for the young:
Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts; and then each one's praise will come from God. 1 Corinthians 4:5
Learn wisdom, its more valuable than gold.

 

[michaelvpardo]

I'm not warring against people. I'm bringing to light the pagan practices of the RCC.

You and a thousand others. Is it really necessary? Does any born again believer really think that they can fall from the truth? Does anyone who has spent any time looking at world history not know about the RCC's pagan practices? The church was built mainly from pagans (gentiles) so you have to expect a lot of trash in the mix. Another parable He spoke to them: "The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal till it was all leavened.'' Matthew 13:33
My apologies to John McArthur and like-minded, but leaven in scripture is never used for something good, but rather as that which corrupts and inflates.

 

[BreadOfLife]

John Paul for one, though I admired him.

There were 2 John Pauls (L & II).
a. Which one?
b. Can you post his quote where he rejected the Creation story and embraced evolution?

Unless you can't produce this evidence - your words are nothing more that the typical anti-Catholicism than infests this board on a daily basis.