ScottA
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That is not at all what Jesus said. He specifically said, "among those born of women."
CHRistian CHRonology: This Rock WILL Prevail Against the Gates of Hell!
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ScottA
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Yes, the best of many. But Jesus did not even mention Mary in His rating of who is greatest among those born of women.
Which would only be right for you to concede.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
To CAPten-T.I.ME,
Everything, all His plans are carried out precisely in order, in a timely fashion. From six days of creation to all of mankinds historical events _ falling in order _ within 7000 years. All Jesus words were precise and given at the right times.
But let's examine these words and allow me to interpret them:
" When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”
So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it." MATT. 16:13-18
Jesus' main point starts with asking the disciples, "Who do people say He is?" Other disciples offer a few answers. But then he asks them what they think and
Peter speaks up first (not that the other disciples did not know this as well), identifying Who Jesus is, information revealed to all of them supernaturally by God, the Father. So Jesus identifies who Peter is, Simon Bar Jonah (in the same way, to give an example), then Jesus claims that this revelation about Who He is - is the rock, (the supernatural revelation of Christ that will start the Church, and build it as it spreads to all the world). Our Church/ religion is Christianity. This was His main point, the context. It is all about Jesus.
Supportive scriptures:
It is important to read the whole context along with any scripture
Matt. 21:42 confirms that Jesus is The Rock, "The Chief Cornerstone". But read Matt. 21:33-43, the context as well.
"Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
‘The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the Lord’s doing,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’?
Everything, all His plans are carried out precisely in order, in a timely fashion. From six days of creation to all of mankinds historical events _ falling in order _ within 7000 years. All Jesus words were precise and given at the right times.
But let's examine these words and allow me to interpret them:
" When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”
So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it." MATT. 16:13-18
Jesus' main point starts with asking the disciples, "Who do people say He is?" Other disciples offer a few answers. But then he asks them what they think and
Peter speaks up first (not that the other disciples did not know this as well), identifying Who Jesus is, information revealed to all of them supernaturally by God, the Father. So Jesus identifies who Peter is, Simon Bar Jonah (in the same way, to give an example), then Jesus claims that this revelation about Who He is - is the rock, (the supernatural revelation of Christ that will start the Church, and build it as it spreads to all the world). Our Church/ religion is Christianity. This was His main point, the context. It is all about Jesus.
Supportive scriptures:
It is important to read the whole context along with any scripture
Matt. 21:42 confirms that Jesus is The Rock, "The Chief Cornerstone". But read Matt. 21:33-43, the context as well.
"Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
‘The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the Lord’s doing,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’?
Jesus is the rock of salvation
But Peter the rock on which the church is built!
Christ cannot be both builder and that which is being built!
you cannot give the keys of jurisdictional authority to a confession!
or power to bind and loose
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Peter ... the rock? He denied Jesus three times - some rock. If He was the rock, God wouldn't have needed Paul, who wrote five times as much scripture as Peter. We would have seen Peter take the lead in that regard. Peter didn't have half the brains as Paul AND we even see Paul rebuking Peter for appeasing and going along with the Judaizers who were insisting that the Gentiles needed to be circumsized and keep the law. Paul being an expert in that area and obviously a higher ranking Apostle ( the highest I would say) knew different. Peter once again put his foot in his mouth and needed to be corrected.
It's a shame, Catholism got that wrong for all these centuries.
I always thought there was something fishy about that guy.
they had not yet received the power of the HS
Peter and the apostles not Peter alone as his witnesses acts 1:8 and the apostles continue till Christ returns
who is the chief pastor / teacher?
Saint of God
Active Member
Saint of God
Active Member
If peter is the rock that the church is built upon then Peter must be the head of the Church. Who does the scripture say is the head of the church?
Ephesians 5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Saint of God
Active Member
Saint of God
Active Member
Well, that is proof that Peter is not the rock the church is built upon, since Jesus was referring to something there and then. Not something that had to be added later.
Then you cannot argue that Peter alone is the rock that the church is built upon
Jesus is ...
of course God does have a mother
the divine nature does not have a mother but Jesus Christ who is God has a mother
Christ ascended to heaven so who did he appoint to represent him as the visible head of the church on earth?
Saint of God
Active Member
Who is God's mother?
If Jesus is God and Jesus' Mother is Mary. Who is Jesus' Father?
Saint of God
Active Member
There is not only one pastor. But if you think that is some kind of argument. How many epistles (meals) do we have from Peter?
Saint of God
Active Member
Jesus did not appoint any head...What he said was
Luke 9:48
And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great.
Was Peter the least of the apostles?
Saint of God
Active Member
That is correct God is a spirit therefore Jesus cannot be God. Jesus was born of a woman.
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