Christian Meditation and Interfaith Dialog

[Dr. Jonathan Österman]

Christian Meditation and Interfaith Dialog

Richard Rohr, as a Catholic priest and Franciscan monk, will offer a concise history of how Western Christianity once had, soon lost, tried to retrieve, and now is roundly rediscovering its own traditional understanding of unitive consciousness (Non-Duality) via the early Christian meditation of self-emptying. The Christian contemplative mind was usually a subtext, and yet it was always clearly there too, and much closer to the surface, but only for those exposed to the mystical base that was revealed in the Gospel of John, the Desert Fathers, and what was generally referred to as the apophatic or wisdom stream of Christianity. These had been our many saints and mystics. This possibility was brought to the fore by Thomas Merton in the middle of the last century, and is now flowing in many positive directions. It is now our task to rediscover the early Christianity that revelled in “the cloud of unknowing”, and the very notion of deep Mystery itself. Richard Rohr is a globally recognized ecumenical teacher bearing witness to the universal awakening within Christian mysticism and the Perennial Tradition. He is a founder of the Center for Action and Contemplation (CAC) in Albuquerque, New Mexico. His teachings are grounded in the Franciscan practices of Christian meditation of self-emptying:

https://quantumantigravity.wordpress.com/4Dave

 

[Gordon]

Hi Jonathan, I've spent some time in the past following the catholic mystics and found reason to reevaluate their purpose in my life. The basis of the mystics is one of looking for Jesus within our flesh. In this manner we experience an spiritual empowerment or a spiritual suppression of our senses specific to our initial request. However after reevaluating the very basics of Christianity I found that a revelation of what Jesus did on the Cross becomes the place that our efforts to improve one's self are resolved. I've written three books on the subject which are dependent on how Jesus also changes us at the Cross. Books are free in PDF. Many Blessings

 

[TonyChanYT]

the early Christian meditation of self-emptying.

Can you cite a reference?

 

[Gordon]

Can you cite a reference?

A reference to the books or to the Bibles mention?

 

[Dr. Jonathan Österman]

Can you cite a reference?

A reference to the books or to the Bibles mention?

A reference to your books, Gordon.

 

[Gordon]

A reference to your books, Gordon.

Out from the Shadow of Other Gods

Every Christian is desperate for a true relationship and life changing experience with God, but our most prevalent model of success and failure has been religion. The things that have been taught us have had more to do with man’s search for a god, rather than in God showing us His ways. There is a place where religion dies and genuine relationship begins. The first in a series, the author provides a platform for change and a simple yet powerful way out from the trappings of humanities religion. Ministering with honor to the pastor as well as to the prodigal and revealing a surprising bounty of Jesus in every page. Get ready to be encouraged, challenged, and renewed in your walk of faith.

The Shadow of the Spiritual

Got Spirit?

That’s an interesting question, but after two thousand years of Christian history, maybe we should be asking “which spirit?” Though the Christian faith has been provided with a sure foundation in Christ, our propensity to get worldly or even religious has actually pushed us past safe boundaries. There is a quagmire of spiritual alternatives all vying for our attention, yet none of them has anything to do with a true faith in Jesus. “The Shadow of the Spiritual” is meaty, thought provoking, in-depth look into the rising tide of spiritual pollution within the Church. Its lingering effects remain oppressive and damaging to any believer who desires a pure expression of relationship with the Son of God. This self help book is a must read for any Christian wanting to understand how improper spiritual connections get formed, fed and how unhealthy spiritual bondage gets passed around. Yet, by embracing a simple biblical truth, we can separate ourselves from all sorts of added trouble. The second in a series, the author provides a platform for change and a simple yet powerful way out from the trappings of humanities many fallen exploits.

Lord I Want To Change!

Is It time for a change? The Christian life is not always an easy life. Though we are assured that all things have become new, “New life” may end up looking a lot like the old one. This is due to our inability to properly transition away from certain worldly influences. A growing number of our troubles include the weight of family dysfunction, years of social conditioning and any number of personal failures remaining a black mark on our record. All of these issues have a tendency to warp our sense of “self” and we walk through life emotionally crippled; yet Jesus has other plans for us. The Bible provides the Christian a “get out of jail free card”. Jesus offers us a simple and effective way of escape out from the trappings of a difficult past. If you have ever wondered whether there is more to the Christian life, then get ready to be encouraged, challenged, and set free in your walk of faith.

Free PDF Versions ———————- Send an E-mail message to [email protected] and in the “subject” heading abbreviate the title of the book you want. I’ll send it shortly.

• Out from the shadow of Other Gods = ofs
• The Shadow of the Spiritual = sos
• Lord I want to Change = Lwc

 

[Dr. Jonathan Österman]

Can you cite a reference?

According to the World Community for Christian Meditation ( WCCM.org ), the following is the reason why the early Christian Desert Fathers (Christian mystics) had practised silent meditation of self-emptying:

" During a still & silent Christian meditation retreat, you’ll have a short talk in the morning, a one to one with your companion or mentor during the week – that’s a very important part of the balancing and the integration of what mystical experiences will come to you. But otherwise you will be in silence. The talk is the least important part of the retreat. As you start experiencing the natural state of mind, you will also begin to see the necessary distinction between mind and heart. You will also begin to glimpse the fact that your mind and your ego (self) are very intertwined. In fact, it might even seem to you that they are one and the same thing. They are not the same thing, and they are not bad in themselves, but they can very easily and quickly become over-agitated, dysfunctional and simply too active. Meditation day by day begins to reduce that activity, and reveals the false reality (illusion) of the ego (self)."

More references are provided here: https://quantumantigravity.wordpress.com/4Dave

 

[Gordon]

According to the World Community for Christian Meditation ( WCCM.org ), the following is the reason why the early Christian Desert Fathers (Christian mystics) had practised silent meditation of self-emptying:

" During a still & silent Christian meditation retreat, you’ll have a short talk in the morning, a one to one with your companion or mentor during the week – that’s a very important part of the balancing and the integration of what mystical experiences will come to you. But otherwise you will be in silence. The talk is the least important part of the retreat. As you start experiencing the natural state of mind, you will also begin to see the necessary distinction between mind and heart. You will also begin to glimpse the fact that your mind and your ego (self) are very intertwined. In fact, it might even seem to you that they are one and the same thing. They are not the same thing, and they are not bad in themselves, but they can very easily and quickly become over-agitated, dysfunctional and simply too active. Meditation day by day begins to reduce that activity, and reveals the false reality (illusion) of the ego (self)."

More references are provided here: https://quantumantigravity.wordpress.com/4Dave

With Respect I say that the history of mankind is replete with spiritual support. When Adam and Eve partook of the fruit they were coxed into taking it by the serpent/the Devil/the dragon. This invited all mans attempts at dominion to now be supported by the presence of other powers which empower,enhance and subdue his works . The effects of the Cross on our walk with God literally breaks the chains of our past spiritual associations. This includes how we choose to enter into faith and faith practices. A rule of thumb is, if man is in pursuit of God then he misses out on how God once pursued us and showed us away to be made new and in tune with Him. I'm not saying religious concepts don't work, but I am saying that after years of going from one religious practice after the other I finally asked God to just come find me. The result was a peace and rest I had never known and the bible became enough of a teacher when I need answers for life and faith. Many blessings

 

[TonyChanYT]

According to the World Community for Christian Meditation ( WCCM.org ), the following is the reason why the early Christian Desert Fathers (Christian mystics) had practised silent meditation of self-emptying:

" During a still & silent Christian meditation retreat, you’ll have a short talk in the morning, a one to one with your companion or mentor during the week – that’s a very important part of the balancing and the integration of what mystical experiences will come to you. But otherwise you will be in silence. The talk is the least important part of the retreat. As you start experiencing the natural state of mind, you will also begin to see the necessary distinction between mind and heart. You will also begin to glimpse the fact that your mind and your ego (self) are very intertwined. In fact, it might even seem to you that they are one and the same thing. They are not the same thing, and they are not bad in themselves, but they can very easily and quickly become over-agitated, dysfunctional and simply too active. Meditation day by day begins to reduce that activity, and reveals the false reality (illusion) of the ego (self)."

More references are provided here: https://quantumantigravity.wordpress.com/4Dave

Your point is self-emptying. Your reference quotation does not contain the string "empty".

To save the effort of your readers, this is how to do referencing in a scholarly manner:

1. Give the source/citation.
2. Provide the URL link to the source if available.
3. Indent the quoted text.
4. Bold the relevant keywords that are important to the point that you are making.
5. Be concise and to the point.

This is what I do for others who read my posts. It is a standard high-school scholarship. If you practice this, I guarantee you: it will improve your analytical thinking. In any case, no one is required to do it here.

 

[Cassandra]

According to the World Community for Christian Meditation ( WCCM.org ), the following is the reason why the early Christian Desert Fathers (Christian mystics) had practised silent meditation of self-emptying:

" During a still & silent Christian meditation retreat, you’ll have a short talk in the morning, a one to one with your companion or mentor during the week – that’s a very important part of the balancing and the integration of what mystical experiences will come to you. But otherwise you will be in silence. The talk is the least important part of the retreat. As you start experiencing the natural state of mind, you will also begin to see the necessary distinction between mind and heart. You will also begin to glimpse the fact that your mind and your ego (self) are very intertwined. In fact, it might even seem to you that they are one and the same thing. They are not the same thing, and they are not bad in themselves, but they can very easily and quickly become over-agitated, dysfunctional and simply too active. Meditation day by day begins to reduce that activity, and reveals the false reality (illusion) of the ego (self)."

More references are provided here: https://quantumantigravity.wordpress.com/4Dave

This is the same stuff the eastern religions do. i wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

Read your Bible and pray. You don't need any mystical experience .

 

[Cassandra]

Is this you? Is this you? Zbigniew Modrzejewski - Natural Philosophy Wiki

Are you a Gelupa monk?
Zbigniew Modrzejewski, born in Poland in 1964, ordained ( according to spiritual guidance of Ven. Lama Kyabje Zopa Rinpoche, with direct encouragement and blessings of Khensur Denma Locho Rinpoche ) by Geshe Sopa Rinpoche as getsul (novice) Lhundrub Jinpa in the Gelug tradition of Lama Tsong Khapa on the 26th of November 2000, year of the Iron Dragon at Kopan Monastery in Kathmandu, Nepal.

Ven. Lhundrub Jinpa

Ven. Lhundrub Jinpa, pierwszy mnich tradycji Gelug w Polsce

lhundrubjinpa.tripod.com

How is that Christian?

 

[Dr. Jonathan Österman]

Free PDF Versions ———————- Send an E-mail message to [email protected] and in the “subject” heading abbreviate the title of the book you want. I’ll send it shortly.

• Out from the shadow of Other Gods = ofs
• The Shadow of the Spiritual = sos
• Lord I want to Change = Lwc

Welcome to Shadow Free Ministries!​

Gordon Brownlee wrote:

" Every Christian is desperate for a true relationship and life changing experience with God, but our most prevalent model of success and failure has been religion. The things that have been taught us have had more to do with man’s search for a god, rather than in God showing us His ways. There is a place where religion dies and genuine relationship begins. The first in a series, Gordon provides a platform for change and a simple yet powerful way out from the trappings of religion."
Gordon's Shadow Free Ministries: Shadow Free Ministries


Yes, there is a place where religion dies and Gordon's Shadow Free Ministries begin.

Gordon, every Christian who longs for a true relationship and life changing experience of God, takes example of the early Christian Desert Fathers (Christian mystics) and practises their silent meditation: https://quantumantigravity.wordpress.com/4dave/

 

[Cassandra]

Welcome to Shadow Free Ministries!​

Gordon Brownlee wrote:

" Every Christian is desperate for a true relationship and life changing experience with God, but our most prevalent model of success and failure has been religion. The things that have been taught us have had more to do with man’s search for a god, rather than in God showing us His ways. There is a place where religion dies and genuine relationship begins. The first in a series, Gordon provides a platform for change and a simple yet powerful way out from the trappings of religion."
Gordon's Shadow Free Ministries: Shadow Free Ministries


Yes, there is a place where religion dies and Gordon's Shadow Free Ministries begin.

Gordon, every Christian who longs for a true relationship and life changing experience of God, takes example of the early Christian Desert Fathers (Christian mystics) and practises their silent meditation: https://quantumantigravity.wordpress.com/4dave/

Why did you change your avatar after I asked you about it?

 

[Gordon]

Welcome to Shadow Free Ministries!​

Gordon Brownlee wrote:

" Every Christian is desperate for a true relationship and life changing experience with God, but our most prevalent model of success and failure has been religion. The things that have been taught us have had more to do with man’s search for a god, rather than in God showing us His ways. There is a place where religion dies and genuine relationship begins. The first in a series, Gordon provides a platform for change and a simple yet powerful way out from the trappings of religion."
Gordon's Shadow Free Ministries: Shadow Free Ministries


Yes, there is a place where religion dies and Gordon's Shadow Free Ministries begin.

Gordon, every Christian who longs for a true relationship and life changing experience of God, takes example of the early Christian Desert Fathers (Christian mystics) and practises their silent meditation: https://quantumantigravity.wordpress.com/4dave/

Go back further to the ministry of Paul the Apostle. He shows you how to separate spiritual truth from spiritual error.

The Purpose Driven Death

There is one pivotal event that all believers look to which define them as Christian. That event is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. Without it we have no chance of gaining salvation, relationship with God or any hope of changing our sinful heart. This valuable sequence of events...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Why did you change your avatar after I asked you about it?

Good questions. We are to try the spirits that come to us.

1 John 4:1-5
4 Beloved, believe NOT every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

 

[Dr. Jonathan Österman]

This is what I do for others who read my

Jesus was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God is coming, and he answered, “The kingdom of God is not coming with things that can be observed; nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’ For, in fact, the kingdom of God is within you.” — Luke 17:20–21​

Father Laurence Freeman OSB wrote:​

” There is in Christian mystical literature an understanding and a description, a recognition of what we could call Enlightenment experiences. Evagrius Ponticus, one of the more intellectual, theological and philosophical of the Desert Fathers, speaks about meditation as the way ‘in which we come to see the Holy Light of our own spirit’. He is describing a level of consciousness of the journey to God. We could say that it’s about seeing one’s mind clearly without self-analysis or self-reflection, without the intervention of conceptual thinking. Is it just about seeing the world differently? Or is it about the actual doors of perception that we have been cleansing, we have been purifying, we have been transforming in meditation? And, as they are being transformed, as we perceive differently, we realize ourselves to be more and more permeated by the Holy Light that silently dwells deep within ourselves, because the kingdom of God is within us. And this Holy Light also starts radiating and permeating the natural external world.”​

 

[Dr. Jonathan Österman]

Read your Bible and pray. You don't need any mystical experience .

Be still, and know that I am God. — Psalms 46:10​

When our mind calmly meditates, we abide in stillness, in the silent presence of the occult Holy Light of the Omnipresent mind of God, and in the Holy Peace of God, which surpasses our conceptual thinking and understanding (Philippians 4:7), and thus we become more and more Enlightened by allowing our mind to gently and humbly bask in the glory of God’s all-pervading mystical Holy Light of His divine radiant luminous consciousness that is also hidden deep within our own mind being our True Self and our birth-right to have eternal life in God’s Heaven with our Lord Jesus Christ. We all are children of God’s Holy Light, because the kingdom of God is within us all.​

Father Laurence Freeman OSB wrote:​

” There is in Christian mystical literature an understanding and a description, a recognition of what we could call Enlightenment experiences. Evagrius Ponticus, one of the more intellectual, theological and philosophical of the Desert Fathers, speaks about meditation as the way ‘in which we come to see the Holy Light of our own spirit’. He is describing a level of consciousness of the journey to God. We could say that it’s about seeing one’s mind clearly without self-analysis or self-reflection, without the intervention of conceptual thinking. Is it just about seeing the world differently? Or is it about the actual doors of perception that we have been cleansing, we have been purifying, we have been transforming in meditation? And, as they are being transformed, as we perceive differently, we realize ourselves to be more and more permeated by the Holy Light that silently dwells deep within ourselves, because the kingdom of God is within us. And this Holy Light also starts radiating and permeating the natural external world.”​

 

[Gordon]

Jesus was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God is coming, and he answered, “The kingdom of God is not coming with things that can be observed; nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’ For, in fact, the kingdom of God is within you.” — Luke 17:20–21​

Father Laurence Freeman OSB wrote:​

” There is in Christian mystical literature an understanding and a description, a recognition of what we could call Enlightenment experiences. Evagrius Ponticus, one of the more intellectual, theological and philosophical of the Desert Fathers, speaks about meditation as the way ‘in which we come to see the Holy Light of our own spirit’. He is describing a level of consciousness of the journey to God. We could say that it’s about seeing one’s mind clearly without self-analysis or self-reflection, without the intervention of conceptual thinking. Is it just about seeing the world differently? Or is it about the actual doors of perception that we have been cleansing, we have been purifying, we have been transforming in meditation? And, as they are being transformed, as we perceive differently, we realize ourselves to be more and more permeated by the Holy Light that silently dwells deep within ourselves, because the kingdom of God is within us. And this Holy Light also starts radiating and permeating the natural external world.”​

Which do you want, to be self enlightened or filled with the Holy Spirit? I reiterate that religious practice is about "us" and not about being renewed in the knowledge of our Savior. At some point you will come to the conclusion that self perfection isn't a high enough goal in life.

 

[Dr. Jonathan Österman]

​

Christian mystical Non-Duality means that we have never been separated from God, because the kingdom of God has always been deep within us. We have been children of God all along, and forever after, and God will never disown us, despite naturally being, like a loving mother, compassionately angry with us whenever we happen to harm ourselves with our sins, and threatening us with eternal Hell to sober us up. Because, being spiritually immature, we all, in essence, live lives of the prodigal son (or daughter) from the Biblical parable, God being a stern, but loving and forgiving Father, has been kindly allowing us to keep reincarnating for as long as we need in order to purify our mind by spiritually growing in our unconditional Love for all living creatures, because Christ urged us to love even our enemies. For in God’s Heaven, there is only Divine Love and perfect harmony, all revelling in the Non-Dual divine Glory of God’s Holy Light. ​

“Silent night, holy night, all is calm, all is bright.” — all is Light. ​

 

[Cassandra]

Be still, and know that I am God. — Psalms 46:10​

When our mind calmly meditates, we abide in stillness, in the silent presence of the occult Holy Light of the Omnipresent mind of God, and in the Holy Peace of God, which surpasses our conceptual thinking and understanding (Philippians 4:7), and thus we become more and more Enlightened by allowing our mind to gently and humbly bask in the glory of God’s all-pervading mystical Holy Light of His divine radiant luminous consciousness that is also hidden deep within our own mind being our True Self and our birth-right to have eternal life in God’s Heaven with our Lord Jesus Christ. We all are children of God’s Holy Light, because the kingdom of God is within us all.​

Father Laurence Freeman OSB wrote:​

” There is in Christian mystical literature an understanding and a description, a recognition of what we could call Enlightenment experiences. Evagrius Ponticus, one of the more intellectual, theological and philosophical of the Desert Fathers, speaks about meditation as the way ‘in which we come to see the Holy Light of our own spirit’. He is describing a level of consciousness of the journey to God. We could say that it’s about seeing one’s mind clearly without self-analysis or self-reflection, without the intervention of conceptual thinking. Is it just about seeing the world differently? Or is it about the actual doors of perception that we have been cleansing, we have been purifying, we have been transforming in meditation? And, as they are being transformed, as we perceive differently, we realize ourselves to be more and more permeated by the Holy Light that silently dwells deep within ourselves, because the kingdom of God is within us. And this Holy Light also starts radiating and permeating the natural external world.”​

You are taking Bible verses and trying to work them into your ideas.
You are tying Eastern mysticism into Christianity,. 2 different animals