Christian Meditation and Interfaith Dialog

[Gordon]

​

Christian mystical Non-Duality means that we have never been separated from God, because the kingdom of God has always been deep within us. We have been children of God all along, and forever after, and God will never disown us, despite naturally being, like a loving mother, compassionately angry with us whenever we happen to harm ourselves with our sins, and threatening us with eternal Hell to sober us up. Because, being spiritually immature, we all, in essence, live lives of the prodigal son (or daughter) from the Biblical parable, God being a stern, but loving and forgiving Father, has been kindly allowing us to keep reincarnating for as long as we need in order to purify our mind by spiritually growing in our unconditional Love for all living creatures, because Christ urged us to love even our enemies. For in God’s Heaven, there is only Divine Love and perfect harmony, all revelling in the Non-Dual divine Glory of God’s Holy Light. ​

“Silent night, holy night, all is calm, all is bright.” — all is Light. ​

Jesus does us one better and there is no need for reincarnation.. God sent Jesus as a sacrifice for our sins and anyone that asks Him for salvation stands as clean and righteous before God. Righteousness comes from Him and His righteousness is ours though we still make wrong choices at times. Those poor choices represent strongholds in our lives that bind us up in physical, emotional, intellectual and spiritual ways. This is how Jesus cleanses us of those poor choices. He tells us to:
Colossians 3:5-10 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips.

Paul adds support for how we actually put to death our sordid behavior; it is by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:12-13 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

 

[TonyChanYT]

Jesus was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God is coming, and he answered, “The kingdom of God is not coming with things that can be observed; nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’ For, in fact, the kingdom of God is within you.” — Luke 17:20–21​

Father Laurence Freeman OSB wrote:​

” There is in Christian mystical literature an understanding and a description, a recognition of what we could call Enlightenment experiences. Evagrius Ponticus, one of the more intellectual, theological and philosophical of the Desert Fathers, speaks about meditation as the way ‘in which we come to see the Holy Light of our own spirit’. He is describing a level of consciousness of the journey to God. We could say that it’s about seeing one’s mind clearly without self-analysis or self-reflection, without the intervention of conceptual thinking. Is it just about seeing the world differently? Or is it about the actual doors of perception that we have been cleansing, we have been purifying, we have been transforming in meditation? And, as they are being transformed, as we perceive differently, we realize ourselves to be more and more permeated by the Holy Light that silently dwells deep within ourselves, because the kingdom of God is within us. And this Holy Light also starts radiating and permeating the natural external world.”​

Thanks for the quotation.

Define "Christian meditation of self-emptying".

 

[amigo de christo]

This is the same stuff the eastern religions do. i wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

Read your Bible and pray. You don't need any mystical experience .

 

[amigo de christo]

You are taking Bible verses and trying to work them into your ideas.
You are tying Eastern mysticism into Christianity,. 2 different animals

 

[amigo de christo]

Good questions. We are to try the spirits that come to us.

1 John 4:1-5
4 Beloved, believe NOT every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

This is new age emptying mediatation prayer . as you KNOW already . cassandra also spotted it fast .
THEY have been working this through the church realm under certain terms , main one is called contemplative prayer .
THEY are sneaky sister . the lambs MUST ALWAYS TEST THE SPIRITS INDEED .

 

[Dr. Jonathan Österman]

Define "Christian meditation of self-emptying".

It all depends how you define your "define" in this context.

From your other rude reply to me, I can tell that you are full of your self.

 

[TonyChanYT]

From your other rude reply to me, I can tell that you are full of your self.

Can you quote my words to prove the above accusation?

 

[Dr. Jonathan Österman]

This is new age emptying mediatation prayer .
THEY have been working this through the church realm under certain terms ,
main one is called contemplative prayer .

Who are they ?

 

[Dr. Jonathan Österman]

Can you quote my words to prove the above accusation?

What have you proven recently ?
Show us your proofs, pal.

 

[Dr. Jonathan Österman]

NEW YORK TIMES BESTSELLER • Richard Rohr, as a Catholic priest and Franciscan monk, in his long-awaited book explores what it means that Jesus was called “Christ,” and how this forgotten truth can restore hope and meaning to our lives. In his decades as a globally recognized teacher, Richard Rohr has helped millions realize what is at stake in matters of faith and spirituality. Yet Rohr has never written on the most perennially talked about topic in Christianity: Jesus. Most know who Jesus was, but who was Christ? Too often, Rohr writes, our understandings have been limited by culture, religious debate, and the human tendency to put one’s self at the center. Drawing on scripture, history, and spiritual practice, Rohr articulates a transformative view of Jesus Christ as a portrait of God’s constant, unfolding work in the world. Jesus’ life was meant to declare that humanity has never been separate from God. When we recover this fundamental truth, faith becomes less about proving Jesus was God, and more about learning to recognize God’s presence all around us, and in everyone we meet. Thought-provoking, practical, and full of deep hope and vision, The Universal Christ is a landmark book from one of our most beloved spiritual writers, and an invitation to contemplate how God loves and liberates all that exist, including all the Buddhists.​

Jesus was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God is coming, and he answered, “The kingdom of God is not coming with things that can be observed; nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’ For, in fact, the kingdom of God is within you.” — Luke 17:20–21​

Christian mystical Non-Duality means that we have never been separated from God, because the kingdom of God has always been deep within us. We have been children of God all along, and forever after, and God will never disown us, despite naturally being, like a loving mother, compassionately angry with us whenever we happen to harm ourselves with our sins, and threatening us with eternal Hell to sober us up. Because, being spiritually immature, we all, in essence, live lives of the prodigal son (or daughter) from the Biblical parable, God being a stern, but loving and forgiving Father, has been kindly allowing us to keep reincarnating for as long as we need in order to purify our mind by spiritually growing in our unconditional Love for all living creatures, including all the Buddhists, because Christ urged us to love even our enemies. For in God’s Heaven, there is only Divine Love and perfect harmony, all revelling in the Non-Dual divine Glory of God’s Holy Light. ​

 

[TonyChanYT]

What have you proven recently ?
Show us your proofs, pal.

Great questions

See e.g., The Paraclete was released if and only if Jesus died

If you cannot prove your accusation, can you at least quote my words and argue against them to support the accusation?

 

[Dr. Jonathan Österman]

You don't need any mystical experience .

Nobody is forcing you to have a mystical experience.

Cassandra, you failed to realize that Christian meditation is ‘pure prayer’ where we lay aside our own agendas, the words and notions by which you try to confine and limit God for me.

I do need mystical experiences, because :

” Father John Main OSB reintroduced the lost practice of early Christian mystical meditation practised by the Desert Fathers to the contemporary church in the West. He formed a Benedictine community to which lay people came to learn the art of Christian mystical meditation. His bestselling books, are composed of simple and inviting talks he gave to many hundreds of groups right up until his death in 1982. Today, through the worldwide network he founded, the World Community for Christian Meditation (WCCM), people in all walks of life are discovering the transformative power of being silent before God. The prayer of silence is ‘pure prayer’ where we lay aside our own agendas, the words and notions by which we confine and limit God, and we allow God’s mysterious and silent presence deep within us to become not only a reality, but the reality that gives meaning shape and purpose to everything we do, everything we are.”​

• Amazon.com

 

[Dr. Jonathan Österman]

If you cannot prove your accusation, can you at least quote my words and argue against them to support the accusation?

I don't have to prove anything to anybody, pal.

You haven't proven anything to me, because,
clearly, you have no idea what proof is.
Maybe you can prove to Dr. Richard Dawkins that God exists,
or that the Bible is, in fact, the Word of God ?
After you convert Dr. Richard Dawkins, then I will take you seriously.

I simply told you what I honestly think of you
in the context of self-emptying Christian meditation,
and you conveniently took it out of that context.

So far, all your posts in this thread were OFF-TOPIC.

You came here to disrupt this serious and much needed Interfaith Dialog, and to me, this is evidence that you don't practise what you preach, pal.

So, either stay ON-TOPIC, or go paraclete yourself in your own thread, which nobody reads.

THIS IS MY LAST REPLY TO YOU, TonyChanYT.

 

[TonyChanYT]

I don't have to prove anything to anybody, pal.

Are you in the habit of making accusations without proof?

 

[Gordon]

Nobody is forcing you to have a mystical experience.

Cassandra, you failed to realize that Christian meditation is ‘pure prayer’ where we lay aside our own agendas, the words and notions by which you try to confine and limit God for me.

I do need mystical experiences, because :

” Father John Main OSB reintroduced the lost practice of early Christian mystical meditation practised by the Desert Fathers to the contemporary church in the West. He formed a Benedictine community to which lay people came to learn the art of Christian mystical meditation. His bestselling books, are composed of simple and inviting talks he gave to many hundreds of groups right up until his death in 1982. Today, through the worldwide network he founded, the World Community for Christian Meditation (WCCM), people in all walks of life are discovering the transformative power of being silent before God. The prayer of silence is ‘pure prayer’ where we lay aside our own agendas, the words and notions by which we confine and limit God, and we allow God’s mysterious and silent presence deep within us to become not only a reality, but the reality that gives meaning shape and purpose to everything we do, everything we are.”​

• Amazon.com

"we lay aside our own agendas, the words and notions by which you try to confine and limit God" I realize the intent is innocent yet when we are confronted by the mediation of men and their methods it becomes a diversion away from Jesus as our only focus and makes the journey all about us. IE we are doing this in order to gain something for ourselves.
2 Corinthians 11:3-5 says; But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

 

[Dr. Jonathan Österman]

"we lay aside our own agendas, the words and notions by which we try to confine and limit God"

I realize the intent is innocent yet when we are confronted by the mediation of men and their methods it becomes a diversion away from Jesus as our only focus and makes the journey all about us. IE we are doing this in order to gain something for our selves.

It might be so for some people, and this is precisely the reason why we have the early Christian meditation of self-emptying:

" Richard Rohr, as a Catholic priest and Franciscan monk, will offer a concise history of how Western Christianity once had, soon lost, tried to retrieve, and now is roundly rediscovering its own traditional understanding of unitive consciousness (Non-Duality) via the early Christian meditation of self-emptying. The Christian contemplative mind was usually a subtext, and yet it was always clearly there too, and much closer to the surface, but only for those exposed to the mystical base that was revealed in the Gospel of John, the Desert Fathers, and what was generally referred to as the apophatic or wisdom stream of Christianity. These had been our many saints and mystics. This possibility was brought to the fore by Thomas Merton in the middle of the last century, and is now flowing in many positive directions. It is now our task to rediscover the early Christianity that revelled in “the cloud of unknowing”, and the very notion of deep Mystery itself. Richard Rohr is a globally recognized ecumenical teacher bearing witness to the universal awakening within Christian mysticism and the Perennial Tradition. He is a founder of the Center for Action and Contemplation (CAC) in Albuquerque, New Mexico. His teachings are grounded in the Franciscan practices of Christian meditation of self-emptying."

Jesus was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God is coming, and he answered, “The kingdom of God is not coming with things that can be observed; nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’ For, in fact, the kingdom of God is within you.” — Luke 17:20–21​

Christian mystical Non-Duality means that we have never been separated from God, because the kingdom of God has always been deep within us. We have been children of God all along, and forever after, and God will never disown us, despite naturally being, like a loving mother, compassionately angry with us whenever we happen to harm ourselves with our sins, and threatening us with eternal Hell to sober us up. Because, being spiritually immature, we all, in essence, live lives of the prodigal son (or daughter) from the Biblical parable, God being a stern, but loving and forgiving Father, has been kindly allowing us to keep reincarnating for as long as we need in order to purify our mind by spiritually growing in our unconditional Love for all living creatures, including all the Buddhists, because Christ urged us to love even our enemies. For in God’s Heaven, there is only Divine Love and perfect harmony, all revelling in the Non-Dual divine Glory of God’s Holy Light.​

NEW YORK TIMES BESTSELLER • " Richard Rohr, as a Catholic priest and Franciscan monk, in his long-awaited book explores what it means that Jesus was called “Christ,” and how this forgotten truth can restore hope and meaning to our lives. In his decades as a globally recognized teacher, Richard Rohr has helped millions realize what is at stake in matters of faith and spirituality. Yet Rohr has never written on the most perennially talked about topic in Christianity: Jesus. Most know who Jesus was, but who was Christ? Too often, Rohr writes, our understandings have been limited by culture, religious debate, and the human tendency to put one’s self at the center. Drawing on scripture, history, and spiritual practice, Rohr articulates a transformative view of Jesus Christ as a portrait of God’s constant, unfolding work in the world. Jesus’ life was meant to declare that humanity has never been separate from God. When we recover this fundamental truth, faith becomes less about proving Jesus was God, and more about learning to recognize God’s presence all around us, and in everyone we meet. Thought-provoking, practical, and full of deep hope and vision, The Universal Christ is a landmark book from one of our most beloved spiritual writers, and an invitation to contemplate how God loves and liberates all that exist, including all the Buddhists."​

 

[Cassandra]

"we lay aside our own agendas, the words and notions by which you try to confine and limit God" I realize the intent is innocent yet when we are confronted by the mediation of men and their methods it becomes a diversion away from Jesus as our only focus and makes the journey all about us. IE we are doing this in order to gain something for ourselves.
2 Corinthians 11:3-5 says; But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

Exactly.

Nobody is forcing you to have a mystical experience.

Cassandra, you failed to realize that Christian meditation is ‘pure prayer’ where we lay aside our own agendas, the words and notions by which you try to confine and limit God for me.

I do need mystical experiences, because :

” Father John Main OSB reintroduced the lost practice of early Christian mystical meditation practised by the Desert Fathers to the contemporary church in the West. He formed a Benedictine community to which lay people came to learn the art of Christian mystical meditation. His bestselling books, are composed of simple and inviting talks he gave to many hundreds of groups right up until his death in 1982. Today, through the worldwide network he founded, the World Community for Christian Meditation (WCCM), people in all walks of life are discovering the transformative power of being silent before God. The prayer of silence is ‘pure prayer’ where we lay aside our own agendas, the words and notions by which we confine and limit God, and we allow God’s mysterious and silent presence deep within us to become not only a reality, but the reality that gives meaning shape and purpose to everything we do, everything we are.”​

• Amazon.com

I sure don't know why Fathers Main's input is important here. Am I supposed to say, "Oh, OK". If this was a true deal, God would've had it written about in the Bible.
No one is limiting God. But we are not putting words in His mouth, either.
And a New York Times Bestseller? Is that supposed to be the definitive thing?

Are you a gelupa monk?

 

[TonyChanYT]

meditation of self-emptying

What is that? Can you give an example?

 

[Dr. Jonathan Österman]

The basis of the mystics is one of looking for Jesus within our flesh.

And the following is the reason why Christian mystics
have been looking for Jesus within their flesh :

Jesus was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God is coming, and he answered, “The kingdom of God is not coming with things that can be observed; nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’ For, in fact, the kingdom of God is within you.” — Luke 17:20–21​

No worries Gordon, I will be looking for Jesus within your books of your Shadow Free Ministries.

 

[Cassandra]

What is that? Can you give an example?

I bet it starts out with concentrating on your breathing...