Christians and Jews are both anti Acts 2:38.

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GodsBeloved11

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baptism is a fruit of being born again, like obedience to God's commandments and good works
 

Truther

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So, we can receive the Spirit and the baptism of the Holy Ghost like unto the apostles, and not be born again?
Correct, this is why people that receive the Holy Ghost in the book of Acts were immediately baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
 

Truther

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Yeah I think once we get born again we want to be baptised...That's how it happened for me anyway
Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins is an essential part of the born-again process. The Holy Ghost does not remit sins. It leads us to water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. We have to keep that in mind.
Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is a burial. We don’t bury living folks alive.
 

robert derrick

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Correct, this is why people that receive the Holy Ghost in the book of Acts were immediately baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
Ok, one final question: exactly where do we receive the Spirit upon the hearing of faith with gladness of heart?

In the heart? The mind?

Where was Cornelius and his believing household baptized of the Holy Ghost? Outer in body only? In the heart?
 

Truther

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Ok, one final question: exactly where do we receive the Spirit upon the hearing of faith with gladness of heart?

In the heart? The mind?

Where was Cornelius and his believing household baptized of the Holy Ghost? Outer in body only? In the heart?
It is called the spirit of truth. It comes inside of us to lead us to the truth. The truth is to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ like Cornelius and his kin folks were. They would not have been baptized if the spirit of truth had not entered them. They were not yet buried with Christ when they receive the spirit. Their burial came immediately following. The spirit is not a burial.
Peter understood this clearly and commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins.
If it was not essential, he would not have immediately commanded them to do it.
 

liafailrock

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On a side road here regarding baptism, I have some interesting things to share. I was baptized in the river just about 2 miles Northeast of me. As a matter of fact, the Lord knows I work well with numbers so I found a lot of 'coincidences' involving both the time and the place. I did not arrange the time, nor the place. Later, I discovered it was 12240 feet from my land to the baptismal site, the same number of days I believe the Lord lived here on this earth. Even more interesting, if you run a line from my house to the site, and simply keep going around the earth straight ahead, it points to Israel (i.e. Israel is in that same direction). It happened on the eve of the Day of Atonement and I also discovered the number 23 permeated throughout the event. Sometimes it's easier for me to understand numbers and mathematical symbols than just saying something, so this affirmed to me that of course I did not plan anything. It's when the Spirit moved me to do so similar as the Gentile people baptized after receiving the Spirit in Acts. Of course living in the northeast United States, I can't say it is the warmest place but the Day of Atonement was late summer so thankfully the water was warm. LOL.
 
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Truther

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On a side road here regarding baptism, I have some interesting things to share. I was baptized in the river just about 2 miles Northeast of me. As a matter of fact, the Lord knows I work well with numbers so I found a lot of 'coincidences' involving both the time and the place. I did not arrange the time, nor the place. Later, I discovered it was 12240 feet from my land to the baptismal site, the same number of days I believe the Lord lived here on this earth. Even more interesting, if you run a line from my house to the site, and simply keep going around the earth straight ahead, it points to Israel (i.e. Israel is in that same direction). It happened on the eve of the Day of Atonement and I also discovered the number 23 permeated throughout the event. Sometimes it's easier for me to understand numbers and mathematical symbols than just saying something, so this affirmed to me that of course I did not plan anything. It's when the Spirit moved me to do so similar as the Gentile people baptized after receiving the Spirit in Acts. Of course living in the northeast United States, I can't say it is the warmest place but the Day of Atonement was late summer so thankfully the water was warm. LOL.
Would I be imposing to ask you if you were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ?
 

robert derrick

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It is called the spirit of truth. It comes inside of us to lead us to the truth. The truth is to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ like Cornelius and his kin folks were. They would not have been baptized if the spirit of truth had not entered them. They were not yet buried with Christ when they receive the spirit. Their burial came immediately following. The spirit is not a burial.
Peter understood this clearly and commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins.
If it was not essential, he would not have immediately commanded them to do it.
It comes inside of us to lead us to the truth

Ok, that just about does it here. All you have is carnal 'reasonings' to justify your false doctrine. Your word 'it' says it all.

Your rejection of Scripture forces you to speak of God sending His new wine of the Spirit into old wineskins not yet cleansed. Them that have received the Spirit of God are not born again of His Spirit, and do not have His Spirit dwelling in their heart, but 'it' is only 'in them' that gladly believe.

That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.


Them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, are sanctified by His Spirit, and have forgiveness of sins and inheritance among the saints. Them that are sanctified in Christ are not still unclean sinners and unforgiven of sins.

They were not yet buried with Christ when they receive the spirit. Their burial came immediately following. The spirit is not a burial.

And so the carnal mind sees water of the world to be more real than the Spirit of God.

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

It is not the inner new man born of the Spirit that is buried as dead in a type of baptism, but rather the old man of sin in the sinful flesh of the mortal body that is buried, even as the dead body of Christ was buried.

Even as His body was buried, He was yet alive by the Spirit gone into the heart of the earth to preach to the spirits in prison, so even as our old man of sin is buried in the likeness of His dead body, so is our inner man alive in the Spirit, which we have gladly received by faith.

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison.

No man receives the Spirit by hearing of faith is yet dead in sins and trespasses, but born again of the Spirit a new creature and new man in Christ, partaking of the divine nature of God.

You are as carnal in thinking as them that preach a created christ, and see the Spirit of God is nothing but a 'it' force, and not a Person.

And you do so for the same cause: to preach a special doctrine by which to draw away believers from the body of Christ to your own special little separate group, who's reading of Scripture is thoroughly corrupted by pride.

Like the JW's, and the Roman Catholic religion followers, I pretty much have enough from the '2:38' club.
 
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Truther

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It comes inside of us to lead us to the truth

Ok, that just about does it here. All you have is carnal 'reasonings' to justify your false doctrine. Your word 'it' says it all.

Your rejection of Scripture forces you to speak of God sending His new wine of the Spirit into old wineskins not yet cleansed. Them that have received the Spirit of God are not born again of His Spirit, and do not have His Spirit dwelling in their heart, but 'it' is only 'in them' that gladly believe.

That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.


Them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, are sanctified by His Spirit, and have forgiveness of sins and inheritance among the saints. Them that are sanctified in Christ are not still unclean sinners and unforgiven of sins.

They were not yet buried with Christ when they receive the spirit. Their burial came immediately following. The spirit is not a burial.

And so the carnal mind sees water of the world to be more real than the Spirit of God.

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

It is not the inner new man born of the Spirit that is buried as dead in a type of baptism, but rather the old man of sin in the sinful flesh of the mortal body that is buried, even as the dead body of Christ was buried.

Even as His body was buried, He was yet alive by the Spirit gone into the heart of the earth to preach to the spirits in prison, so even as our old man of sin is buried in the likeness of His dead body, so is our inner man alive in the Spirit, which we have gladly received by faith.

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison.

No man receives the Spirit by hearing of faith is yet dead in sins and trespasses, but born again of the Spirit a new creature and new man in Christ, partaking of the divine nature of God.

You are as carnal in thinking as them that preach a created christ, and see the Spirit of God is nothing but a 'it' force, and not a Person.

And you do so for the same cause: to preach a special doctrine by which to draw away believers from the body of Christ to your own special little separate group, who's reading of Scripture is thoroughly corrupted by pride.

Like the JW's, and the Roman Catholic religion followers, I pretty much have enough from the '2:38' club.
Just answer a simple question Robert… Did Peter command the Gentiles per Acts 10 to get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins? If so, why, if it was not essential to immediately be baptized?


Also, this may come as a shock to you, but Romans-Revelation were written to people that were already baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. They were not written to sinners. They are called epistles.
It is called the epistle to the church at Rome for instance. Not to the sinners at Rome.
You cannot skip Acts and teach sinners the book of Romans, etc to find an alternative to Acts 2:38.

What you are doing if you do so is you are stealing somebody’s mail and reading it to somebody it has no business with. It is mail theft at the highest level .
 
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robert derrick

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Just answer a simple question Robert… Did Peter command the Gentiles per Acts 10 to get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins? If so, why, if it was not essential to immediately be baptized?


Also, this may come as a shock to you, but Romans 10 was written to people that were already baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. It was not written to sinners. It is called an epistle.
It is called the epistle to the church at Rome. Not to the sinners at Rome.
You cannot skip Acts and teach sinners the book of Romans.

What you are doing if you do so is you are stealing somebody’s mail and reading it to somebody it has no business with. It is mail theft at the highest level .
The argument is already concluded with you trying to propose receiving the Spirit, but not being born again.

By the Spirit we are born again, sanctified, forgiven of sins, and have inheritance with the saints.

You placing water on the flesh in more importance than having the Spirit in the heart tells the tale.

Carnal minded, having not the Spirit.

You have not the Word of God abiding in you. Your doctrine of fleshly pride has separated you from the Spirit and the fellowship of the saints in the body of Christ:

Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
 

robert derrick

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If so, why, if it was not essential to immediately be baptized?

Being saved, it is essential to be a doer of the Word at all times, so soon as it is known to do.

but Romans 10 was written to people that were already baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. You cannot skip Acts and teach sinners the book of Romans.

Tell that to Paul, since he is plainly preaching how to be saved:

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

And so he is telling them to be saved, since water baptism doesn't do it.
 

Truther

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The argument is already concluded with you trying to propose receiving the Spirit, but not being born again.

By the Spirit we are born again, sanctified, forgiven of sins, and have inheritance with the saints.

You placing water on the flesh in more importance than having the Spirit in the heart tells the tale.

Carnal minded, having not the Spirit.

You have not the Word of God abiding in you. Your doctrine of fleshly pride has separated you from the Spirit and the fellowship of the saints in the body of Christ:

Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
OK, enough of the unscriptural threats. Stick to business. If the pope gets the Holy Ghost and remains the pope, is he saved?
 

robert derrick

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OK, enough of the unscriptural threats. Stick to business. If the pope gets the Holy Ghost and remains the pope, is he saved?
No threat. Just Scripture based upon your doctrine and it's results:

You have rejected any believer confessing Jesus as brother and sister, who have not conformed to your law, and especially them who refuse to do so, after you have tried to proselytize them. Therefore, you have separated yourself, which is due to not having the Spirit. (Jude 19)

You are also as them that spy out the liberty of other believers, to try and proselytize them to your law. You care nothing for the confession of the faith of Jesus and a life well pleasing to Him, but only conformity to your law, and lie in wait to pounce upon them and bring them into your law's bondage:

And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage (Gal 2)

Your 'business' is now useless to continue because of how utterly carnal minded you are made by your '2:38' salvation by carnal law.

You don't even know what you are saying anymore, because you have no clue what you are talking about.

If anyone receives the Spirit and is baptized by the Holy Ghost by the faith of Jesus, then they are by Scripture no longer unclean vessels and old wineskins, but sanctified saints to Christ Jesus: brethren of the Firstborn.

You do as the Judaizers of old did with circumcision of the flesh:

And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. (Acts 10)

If they had any title beforehand, then their new title is that of saint in Christ Jesus.

This is the serious business at hand, but I know you are far past Scriptural admonition, therefore, Scripture instructs me to reject you for the heretic you are, and let you go your way.

If anyone becomes born again and saved by faith of Jesus, then they would proceed to rid themselves of past relationships and religious idolatries and oaths that are not of Christ.

Only from a carnal mind in bondage to a false law, can anyone believe a believer of Jesus can receive the Spirit of God by faith, and only have the Spirit 'in them', but not be born again of the Spirit, until they obey your carnal law.

Which is exactly as the same spirit of the 'sacraments' of the Roman religion to be saved.

No Scripture speaks of receiving the Spirit by hearing of faith, yet not being born again of the Spirit.
 

robert derrick

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Would I be imposing to ask you if you were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ?

Such as these are as other proselytizers to another gospel.

It is plain they care nothing for confession of faith, but only submission to their false doctrine.

But they are very 'courteous' about their inquisitions.

It's like the inquisitioning of old: Is not the Blessed Sacrament the veritable and Sacred blood of Christ??!!

Though they do lack the teeth behind it.

I am wondering if the beast with all those heads are all 'Christian' sects and cult groups joined together against them that do not hold to their special little rules. Once they are rid of, then they turn on themselves in the end.

I.e. a common cause of ministerial and spiritual warfare against them that believe Jesus only and obey follow His voice only according to the Scriptures.

Circumcision Judaizers, Roman Catholics, Pentecostal 'holiness' groups, Mormons, JW's, 2:38 Baptizers, Scientologists.

That's Seven heads of the same beast: Separate themselves in isolation from all other confessors of Jesus as heretics, and condemned as apostate any 'brother or sister' that depart from their special group to be join the unity of the body of Christ.
 

Truther

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No threat. Just Scripture based upon your doctrine and it's results:

You have rejected any believer confessing Jesus as brother and sister, who have not conformed to your law, and especially them who refuse to do so, after you have tried to proselytize them. Therefore, you have separated yourself, which is due to not having the Spirit. (Jude 19)

You are also as them that spy out the liberty of other believers, to try and proselytize them to your law. You care nothing for the confession of the faith of Jesus and a life well pleasing to Him, but only conformity to your law, and lie in wait to pounce upon them and bring them into your law's bondage:

And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage (Gal 2)

Your 'business' is now useless to continue because of how utterly carnal minded you are made by your '2:38' salvation by carnal law.

You don't even know what you are saying anymore, because you have no clue what you are talking about.

If anyone receives the Spirit and is baptized by the Holy Ghost by the faith of Jesus, then they are by Scripture no longer unclean vessels and old wineskins, but sanctified saints to Christ Jesus: brethren of the Firstborn.

You do as the Judaizers of old did with circumcision of the flesh:

And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. (Acts 10)

If they had any title beforehand, then their new title is that of saint in Christ Jesus.

This is the serious business at hand, but I know you are far past Scriptural admonition, therefore, Scripture instructs me to reject you for the heretic you are, and let you go your way.

If anyone becomes born again and saved by faith of Jesus, then they would proceed to rid themselves of past relationships and religious idolatries and oaths that are not of Christ.

Only from a carnal mind in bondage to a false law, can anyone believe a believer of Jesus can receive the Spirit of God by faith, and only have the Spirit 'in them', but not be born again of the Spirit, until they obey your carnal law.

Which is exactly as the same spirit of the 'sacraments' of the Roman religion to be saved.

No Scripture speaks of receiving the Spirit by hearing of faith, yet not being born again of the Spirit.
So you are saying that the pope, or Mormon, or a Jehovah witness that receive the gift of the Holy Ghost can remain how they are and they will be saved, correct?
 

Truther

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Would I be imposing to ask you if you were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ?

Such as these are as other proselytizers to another gospel.

It is plain they care nothing for confession of faith, but only submission to their false doctrine.

But they are very 'courteous' about their inquisitions.

It's like the inquisitioning of old: Is not the Blessed Sacrament the veritable and Sacred blood of Christ??!!

Though they do lack the teeth behind it.

I am wondering if the beast with all those heads are all 'Christian' sects and cult groups joined together against them that do not hold to their special little rules. Once they are rid of, then they turn on themselves in the end.

I.e. a common cause of ministerial and spiritual warfare against them that believe Jesus only and obey follow His voice only according to the Scriptures.

Circumcision Judaizers, Roman Catholics, Pentecostal 'holiness' groups, Mormons, JW's, 2:38 Baptizers, Scientologists.

That's Seven heads of the same beast: Separate themselves in isolation from all other confessors of Jesus as heretics, and condemned as apostate any 'brother or sister' that depart from their special group to be join the unity of the body of Christ.
Would I be imposing to ask you if you were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ?

Such as these are as other proselytizers to another gospel.

It is plain they care nothing for confession of faith, but only submission to their false doctrine.

But they are very 'courteous' about their inquisitions.

It's like the inquisitioning of old: Is not the Blessed Sacrament the veritable and Sacred blood of Christ??!!

Though they do lack the teeth behind it.

I am wondering if the beast with all those heads are all 'Christian' sects and cult groups joined together against them that do not hold to their special little rules. Once they are rid of, then they turn on themselves in the end.

I.e. a common cause of ministerial and spiritual warfare against them that believe Jesus only and obey follow His voice only according to the Scriptures.

Circumcision Judaizers, Roman Catholics, Pentecostal 'holiness' groups, Mormons, JW's, 2:38 Baptizers, Scientologists.

That's Seven heads of the same beast: Separate themselves in isolation from all other confessors of Jesus as heretics, and condemned as apostate any 'brother or sister' that depart from their special group to be join the unity of the body of Christ.
Those that obey Acts 2:38 are all that?

If Peter were alive, he would think it the other way.
 

Truther

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The main problem with those that reject Peter’s very first command is simple… They think that remission of sins is prior to baptism. This renders the sacrifice of Jesus as moot. For without the shedding of blood is no remission of sins. Peter said Acts 2:38 was specifically for the remission of sins. These anti-baptismalists are anti- sacrifice by default.
 

robert derrick

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Those that obey Acts 2:38 are all that?

If Peter were alive, he would think it the other way.
Those that preach obedience to their carnal law of Acts 2:38 to be saved are all that.

They join the Juadaizers of circumcision. The Roman Catholics of Sacraments. The Mormons of Joseph Smith. The JW's of a created christ. The scientologists of mystical brotherhood. The Pentecosts of 'holiness' living.

What do they all have in common? Special rules to be saved, and if not obeyed, then rejected as brothers and sisters in Christ.

Is this not so?

And Peter is alive. And he is not the rock of the church. Jesus is.

Your carnal mind keeps creeping out.