Christians and Jews are both anti Acts 2:38.

[robert derrick]

Jesus said He was going to raise Himself. I take it literally. So did the disciples, literally, from the looks of the scripture.

Excellent point. It throws out any notion of a 'created' Christ that is not God.

Jesus Christ was the God of Israel made flesh by laying down His power and eternal life, to be conceived in a woman's womb by the Spirit, to become the only begotten Son of the Father.

After He was crucified and died on the cross, He then went by that same Spirit into the earth for 3 days, until His preaching there was finished, and then He took back to Himself His life and power to raise His own body from the dead:

He left His body at the cross, went into hell to preach, and returned to His body by the power of His own resurrection from the dead.

When He purposely left His body, by breathing out His soul, the battle-hardened Centurion declared He must be the Son of God, because no man can purposely breathe out their last breath, by the power of their own will, so that their soul departs from that body.

The Father did not take His Son out of His body, which is what happens with every persons on earth:

Behold, all souls are mine.

 

[MatthewG]

The disciples then selves only understood in part they never fully understood. They only seen half. They didn’t understand fully until after resurrection and eating and supping with Jesus. He also told them to not leave Jerusalem until they had received the power from on high that was going to be sent from the Father.

Jesus opened their mind to understand scriptures the only scriptures in that time where the Old Testament Scriptures.


“Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and He said to them, “So it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations (tribes at that time), beginning from Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. And behold, I am sending the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.” And He led them out as far as Bethany, and He lifted up His hands and blessed them. While He was blessing them, He parted from them and was carried up into heaven. And they, after worshiping Him, returned to Jerusalem with great joy, and were continually in the temple praising God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:45-53‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

 

[MatthewG]

“Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬


“And all the country of Judea was going out to him, and all the people of Jerusalem; and they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins. John was clothed with camel’s hair and wore a leather belt around his waist, and his diet was locusts and wild honey. And he was preaching, saying, “After me One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to bend down and untie the straps of His sandals. I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:5-8‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

To the notion of the original post: Jesus is the one whom sends the Holy Spirit from the Father when one lets Jesus in by opening the door.


“Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3:20‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

 

[Truther]

Ok, that makes sense because Jesus and His Father are one. None of that takes away from Him resurrecting Himself. Was He just a mouthpiece?
And if someone else had led a perfect life, would they be elevated to Godhood, too? What do you think was special about Jesus?

They are not one, as, the same person. They are one, as in, unified. Read John 17.

 

[Truther]

Right. Really got me there. Another good job of another non-answer.

And the lie you make in the process is idiot-level childish.

Adios.

Before you leave, would you have told the 3000 at Pentecost to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins? Just Gotta know. Thank you.

 

[robert derrick]

Before you leave, would you have told the 3000 at Pentecost to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins? Just Gotta know. Thank you.

I'm not leaving the topic. Only you, until you address the post I made, which included acknowledging Acts 2:38 is exactly what God told them at that time, with no need for alternate translation. Your attempt at accusing someone of changing Scripture is pathetically obvious. A real Pharisee would have done better.

So, until you do so, there is nothing more to discuss.

Adios. Sayonara, Rivadarchi. Hasta Luego. Bye Bye.

 

[robert derrick]

“Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬


“And all the country of Judea was going out to him, and all the people of Jerusalem; and they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins. John was clothed with camel’s hair and wore a leather belt around his waist, and his diet was locusts and wild honey. And he was preaching, saying, “After me One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to bend down and untie the straps of His sandals. I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:5-8‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

To the notion of the original post: Jesus is the one whom sends the Holy Spirit from the Father when one lets Jesus in by opening the door.


“Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3:20‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Jesus is the one whom sends the Holy Spirit from the Father when one lets Jesus in by opening the door.

True, but He won't sup with any, until they are baptized in water first, by one of His special emissaries to instruct them in 2:38.

The Spirit is recieved by the hearing of faith. And salvation is known by confession from the heart.

2:38 lawyers were forced to suggest them receiving the Spirit and being baptized with the Holy Ghost were still not forgiven of sins, until Peter commanded they be dunked in water.

Which means of course all of NT teaching is false: we are not really saved by grace through faith, an unclean vessel can receive the Spirit and remain inwardly unclean, the unsaved carnal mind can receive the Spirit and the things of the Spirit, just not the sanctification of the Spirit, he that believes the Son can have enteral life without remission of sins, etc...

Every cult-making rule does two things: divides and then attempts to conquer by proselytizing other believers.

It first makes up a rule of law for salvation that is not taught by Scripture. This really really special all-saving rule thereby separates them from the rest of average schlub believers, who only think they are saved by Jesus. And they proceed to judge all believers as unsaved, who do not become their proselytes, and two-fold more children of hell than they.

And they always approach believers like spies, to see if those believers are conformed to their rule of salvation. They play friendly and nice in 'fellowship', until they see opportunity to spring upon them their really specially cherished and secret rule to really be saved by.

An antichrist, like Satan who comes as an angel of light, does not come to people as they truly are in honest sincerity, but rather they come with a hidden agenda to shine on them their special salvation plan.

And so, an antichrist rides in on his great whited horse to save a person's day, when they thought their day of salvation by faith had already come.

An antichrist departs from the apostles' doctrine, and then returns to other believers in Jesus to dispel them of their 'weak' salvation, because an antichrist has one that is much much better than written in Scripture.

That is how they have been given a mouth by the dragon to speak really great things, that are blasphemies against the true doctrine of Christ.

It's also why God calls all such as Mystery Babylon the Great. They come with a really great mystery about salvation in Christ, that most other believers need to be clued in on.

If anyone has a better definition of an antichrist, of which there are many gone forth to really save the saved, I'm all ears.

 

[MatthewG]

“Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh, who was declared the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness by the resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles in behalf of His name, among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ; to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the world. For God, whom I serve in my spirit in the preaching of the gospel of His Son, is my witness as to how unceasingly I make mention of you, always in my prayers requesting if perhaps now, at last by the will of God, I will succeed in coming to you. For I long to see you so that I may impart some spiritual gift to you, that you may be established; that is, that I may be encouraged together with you while among you, each of us by the other’s faith, both yours and mine. I do not want you to be unaware, brothers and sisters, that often I have planned to come to you (and have been prevented so far) so that I may obtain some fruit among you also just as among the rest of the Gentiles. I am under obligation both to Greeks and to the uncultured, both to the wise and to the foolish. So, for my part, I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome. For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written: “But the righteous one will live by faith.””
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:1-17‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

 

[MatthewG]

Guess in true response @robert derrick

Jesus will sup with anyone who openly lets him in willingly believing in the heart that Jesus was put to death on the cross dying, being buried and resurrected by God.

When it comes to people who do not believe or have a hard heart, God will give them over to their wants and desires because they do choose it. God is a Good God, and if the desire of the heart for those who don’t want him God will give them up to those desires. He doesn’t force them to do anything.

Though God still calls out to those people even after this life… in my belief. Every tounge will confess Jesus is Lord but they can go against that as long as they want to until they have a change of mind/heart.

 

[robert derrick]

Guess in true response @robert derrick

Jesus will sup with anyone who openly lets him in willingly believing in the heart that Jesus was put to death on the cross dying, being buried and resurrected by God.

When it comes to people who do not believe or have a hard heart, God will give them over to their wants and desires because they do choose it. God is a Good God, and if the desire of the heart for those who don’t want him God will give them up to those desires. He doesn’t force them to do anything.

Though God still calls out to those people even after this life… in my belief. Every tounge will confess Jesus is Lord but they can go against that as long as they want to until they have a change of mind/heart.

Jesus will sup with anyone who openly lets him in willingly believing in the heart that Jesus was put to death on the cross dying, being buried and resurrected by God.

True. I was playing devil's advocate for the 2:38 lawyers.

Baptism doesn't save by water. God saves by faith.

We are begotten by the Word of God and washed clean by the water of the Word, not by baptism in the water of this world.

 

[MatthewG]

That is cool, you can still be Baptized if you desire as an outward expression of inward faith.

Jesus most assuredly baptizes us in the Holy Spirit in fire.

People make the choice to follow Christ or not.

It’s a hard road going down the strait (narrow and hard to get through) which is to be shared with others in love, in which is by faith.

@robert derrick God bless.

 

[Truther]

I'm not leaving the topic. Only you, until you address the post I made, which included acknowledging Acts 2:38 is exactly what God told them at that time, with no need for alternate translation. Your attempt at accusing someone of changing Scripture is pathetically obvious. A real Pharisee would have done better.

So, until you do so, there is nothing more to discuss.

Adios. Sayonara, Rivadarchi. Hasta Luego. Bye Bye.

I know that you believe Acts 2:38 exists in the Bible, but you want to talk around it.

So, simply, would you have quoted the same identical words as Peter did to the 3000 or would you have said anything different if you were asked, "what shall we do"?

This is your statement of faith.

I would have quoted the exact same thing as Peter did to the 3000 if I were the man speaking, as my statement of faith to this forum.

Howabout you, Robert?

 

[robert derrick]

I know that you believe Acts 2:38 exists in the Bible, but you want to talk around it.

So, simply, would you have quoted the same identical words as Peter did to the 3000 or would you have said anything different if you were asked, "what shall we do"?

This is your statement of faith.

I would have quoted the exact same thing as Peter did to the 3000 if I were the man speaking, as my statement of faith to this forum.

Howabout you, Robert?

Acts 2:38 is Scripture of truth. The law of Acts 2:38, made by man, for any and all salvation in Christ is not.

Simple.

I have offered my explanation of Acts 2:38, as an isolated Scripture amidst the sea of Scriptures proving water baptism is not necessary for salvation, but is commanded for fellowship in Christ.

You have no response.

End of story.

 

[robert derrick]

The quip of 2:38 lawyers is that no one buries the living.

Which is true, but only the dead, which is the body of them that are dead to sins.

The new creatures alive in Christ cannot possibly be buried in water of this world, nor can they be born thereby.

The only water that washes clean of sins is that of the Word, upon hearing of faith and receiving of the Spirit.

No one alive to sin and dead to Christ, can receive the Spirit of God, but only the alive in Christ by hearing and believing the gospel of the cross preached.

That gospel is of none effect for them hearing but not mixed with faith; therefore, it is by the hearing of faith, that we receive the Spirit and are washed from the filthy things of the flesh.

Them that are saved by grace through faith, have no need of water baptism for remission of sins, but do have commandment of water baptism for being recieved openly into the body of Christ.

If any then return to open sin, putting the Lord to open shame, then such company of the saints is forbidden once again.

No believer in Christ, confessing Jesus as Lord, can be forbid the water of fellowship by baptism, but any known as a believer, and yet is an open fornicator, covetous, etc... is forbid fellowship in the body of Christ, no matter how much water they were dunked in.

We are saved by the faith of Jesus preached in His gospel, not by the water baptism Jesus commands to His believers. It is the gospel of the cross that saves them that believe, not the commandment of baptism to them that believe Jesus.

 

[Pythagorean12]

I see many Christians attacking the Jewish beliefs for rejecting Christ but the reality is, that Christians that do not obey Acts 2:38 are as disobedient as the Jews that rejected Peter in the first century.

There is no difference to God.

We are either part of the 1st century church via Acts 2:38 obedience or we are not via disobedience to Acts 2:38.

If we disobey it, we are not of the 3000 at Pentecost, but we are as the Sanhedrin and it's "followers of God".

There is no grey area with God. Peter provided no grey area to the murderers of Jesus, nor to us in the modern world.

I am amazed at the voluntary blindness I see towards the solution to the sinners of Acts these days.

It would be a cold day in hell when most modern Christians would get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins as Peter commanded them in Acts 2:38.

Peter has been shunned by the Christian community right before the return of Christ, in these days.

Blindness in part has not just happened to Israel as per Romans 11, but to Christians also.

Well of course the Jews don't obey Acts 2:38.

 

[Truther]

Acts 2:38 is Scripture of truth. The law of Acts 2:38, made by man, for any and all salvation in Christ is not.

Simple.

I have offered my explanation of Acts 2:38, as an isolated Scripture amidst the sea of Scriptures proving water baptism is not necessary for salvation, but is commanded for fellowship in Christ.

You have no response.

End of story.

You just said Peter(man) made Acts 2:38 up. You just said baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is not for the remission of sins as Peter commanded per Acts 2:38.

This means you would have said something completely different than what Peter said to the 3000 at Pentecost.

This means you are not of the 3000, but some modern belief system of Acts skippers.

This also means your sins are yet to be remitted.

 

[Truther]

Well of course the Jews don't obey Acts 2:38.

Nor do most modern Christians.

There is no difference between Jewish sinners and Christian sinners.

 

[Pythagorean12]

Nor do most modern Christians.

There is no difference between Jewish sinners and Christian sinners.

Of course there is. The Jewish sinners don't believe Jesus saves.

 

[Truther]

Of course there is. The Jewish sinners don't believe Jesus saves.

Christian sinners are only Christian in name only.(CINO)

 

[Pythagorean12]

Christian sinners are only Christian in name only.(CINO)

Your narrative pertained to nominal people when you referred to sinners who are called Christian.

Actual born again Christians are no longer referred to by Christ or his gospel as sinners.

The nominal ones will balk at that statement due to their own awareness of their guilt as those who claim the name of salvation and Christ yet still wilfully sin.

While the born again holy spirit indwelt redeemed elect believe Jesus. Who said those who are indwelt do not make a habit of sinning. Unlike the nominals.
However, the BA's have Jesus as our advocate in Heaven. That when we dostumble, we are still in grace.
Because God chose us. We did not choose him. And he knew us before we were born. He sees all things and knows our heart because he chose us to be in him before anything was made.