Christians and Jews are both anti Acts 2:38.

[robert derrick]

Them that preach water baptism as a necessary work of salvation, and do so after a formulaic manner, are ministering error and trouble in the body of Christ.

They command a perfection of salvation by the flesh, and they proselytize new converts into their own separate body.

The very title here demonstrates it: Christians and Jews are both anti Acts 2:38.

I.e. others calling themselves Christians by confession of faith of Jesus are not 'really' saved, because they are 'anti' baptism.

It is a false accusation based upon a false doctrine, which is always the end road of all separatists causing division in the body of Christ by 'special' rules and commandments not given by Jesus to His apostles for His body to obey.

The same is done by them claiming unconditional eternally secure salvation, who call others grace 'haters'.

Also the Sabbath commanders declare all non keeping their Sabbath, on their special day, to be breaking the Lord's commandments.

And them that idolize the name Jehovah and His created christ, likewise judge confessors of Jesus' name as God, to be in idolatry.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

That would be more accurate, except that baptism in water is not necessary for baptism of the Holy Ghost, which therefore is not necessary for salvation:

(Acts 10)
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

Saved and baptized with the Holy Ghost by God upon seeing the faith of Jesus in their heart. Then baptized in water.

New wine isn't put into old bottles.

God doesn't save and send His Spirit based upon the beliefs of man, even if those beliefs are supposed to based upon Scripture.

And there is always Scripture where God puts away any dispute about Scripture.

Baptism in water is not necessary for salvation nor receiving the Holy Ghost.

I would say, both are necessary. First baptism by Holy Spirit to receive a powerful new nature that makes us empowered over sin. And by our new conscience, then baptism by water is done from that good conscience. You don't bury a live person, only a dead person.

 

[robert derrick]

I would say, both are necessary. First baptism by Holy Spirit to receive a powerful new nature that makes us empowered over sin. And by our new conscience, then baptism by water is done from that good conscience. You don't bury a live person, only a dead person.

I would say, both are necessary.

The first is necessary for salvation. The second is necessary obedience in salvation.

First baptism by Holy Spirit to receive a powerful new nature that makes us empowered over sin.

The Spirit is not received by unsaved sinners, even as new wine is not put into old bottles.

By the hearing of faith we receive the Spirit of God and are saved by Him through grace.

Dunking comes after.

And by our new conscience, then baptism by water is done from that good conscience.

True. As in all things of faith, it is done because of being saved. Not to become saved.

You don't bury a live person, only a dead person.

The person being dunked as a type of burial is now dead to sin. He is not a believing yet unsaved sinner that needs be dunked to become saved.

As a matter of obedience to the faith and thus a doer of the Word, a saved believer is baptized in water, even as he now does all things by faith of Jesus, whether baptism, giving in support of ministry, assembling with the saints, etc...

To say that salvation is not 'complete' until water baptism, is salvation by works to boast of in sight of men.

Also, the one dunking and speaking words is made part of God's work of salvation. Another source of boasting.

Conclusion:

Water baptism is because we are saved, and is an open part of being accepted into the fellowship of the saints.

Water baptism is for fellowship: to become accepted in the physical church. Water baptism is not to become saved, nor to be born again into the body of Christ.

 

[Truther]

Good questions.

Do you think that the word was Jesus and Jesus was with God and Jesus was God? Yes or no?

The name Jesus was not given for the Word nor made known to man, until He gave it to Joseph in a dream.

The Word was God from everlasting, and was with God in the beginning of creation, and He called Himself the LORD God in the garden with Adam, and Almighty God with Abraham, and the LORD Jehovah with Moses and the children of Israel in the wilderness, and lastly was called Jesus, when The Word came down out of heaven and was made flesh.

At that time God was made flesh and was called Jesus. And Jesus is now the everlasting name of the risen God of Israel, the man Christ Jesus, which is above every name ever named by God.

In John 4:24, Jesus described God as a Spirit?

Question, did Jesus describe God in flesh?

 

[Truther]

Also, was Jesus made or not?

The Word was never 'made' nor created, but rather was made flesh, made of a woman to be a man on earth. The preparing of His body was by the Spirit, even as His body on earth today is born of the Spirit.

The Word was never 'born' of a woman like unto man in sinful flesh, but rather He was born of God by the Spirit to be made like unto sinful flesh (Heb 2:17), but without sin.

He was not made, but rather a body was made for Him. By which body He came into the world from heaven (Heb 10:5), and was called Jesus.

That body was conceived and made in the womb of the woman by the Spirit, and the Word came into the world by that body: He came Himself into the body in the womb prepared for Him by the Spirit, and so He was born of God and called the Son of God, the only-begotten of the Father.

The Word was from everlasting with God, who was not called the Son of God, nor was God called His Father, until the Word came into the world to be made flesh.

He made Himself in the likeness of men by the working of the Spirit, and took upon Himself the form of a man, the form of a servant made specially for God. (Phillip 2:7)

God the Father did not 'make' Him, nor God the Spirit, who only prepared the body for Him in the womb of the woman.

God the Father sent Him by command, and He made Himself of no reputation, but rather to be a servant in the body of a man made of a woman.

He created all things by command of His word to the Spirit, Who did the work of creation. And so in like manner by command the Spirit made a body for Him, and by Himself entered into that body in the womb, which was made of a woman by the Spirit.

A babe in the womb is made of a woman, made of the flesh of the woman, even as the woman was first made of the flesh of a man, that flesh of the rib.

And so, even as God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into him to become a living soul, so the Spirit formed the body of man of the flesh of a woman, and the Word of Life entered into that body to make Himself in the form of a servant:

The way, the truth, and the life breathed in that body in the womb and in the world, and breathed out of that body from the cross: all by Himself and by His own will in obedience to the commandment of His Father.


Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.


The Father gave the commandment and sent Him into the world thereby, but the Son did so by Himself and His own power. It was done in this way the same as God had always done since the beginning of creation: by commandment and working of the Spirit.

The Word was not created nor made, but rather created and made a new thing on earth:

How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man. (Jerem 31:22)

God made Himself in the form of a man in the womb of a woman, to fulfill the prophecy of Abraham that He should provide Himself a burnt offering for the sins of the whole world.

Per the verse you quoted, did God make Himself a body or did God make another’s body for Himself to dwell in?

Also, did God become a burnt offering Himself?

God offered up Himself?

Or, did God allow another Adam to offer up to Himself that was His biological son?

 

[Truther]

No, baptism DOTH NOW save us.

Nope. I referred to the whole Scripture, and did not take anything out of context, as you are now doing.

The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Baptism is a figure of what has already occurred, and has been compared to the death, burial, and resurrection of us in Christ Jesus.

Baptism is a figurative act in answer to an already purified conscience by faith of Jesus as Lord.

You said exactly the opposite.

The teaching of the Scripture is the opposite of what you say it is.

Also, we don't bury folks that have already been saved.

You're being facetious, right?

There is always Scripture that puts an end to any dispute about Scripture:

We receive the Spirit and Holy Ghost baptism by hearing of faith:

This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? (Gal 3)

The Spirit is not received by the unsaved, nor is new wine put into old bottles.

In like manner did the house of Cornelius receive the Holy Ghost by hearing with faith.

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

They received Him in the same way as the apostles.

And so he commanded that they be baptized in water, and not be forbidden to be baptized in the same way they had been, which would compel receiving them as brethren in the faith, though having been Gentiles.

Baptism is commanded to the ministry as a matter of commanded acceptance into the church and family of God, for any who confess Jesus as Lord.

To preach baptism as necessary for salvation and receiving of the Spirit is to make perfect by the flesh.

It frustrates salvation by grace through faith, by adding works of a law to it.

As the separatist Jews did with circumcision, so Oneness Pentecosts do with baptism.

You make it your life's mission to preach baptism as such, even as the Judaizers did with circumcision.

You bring unnecessary trouble into the body of Christ and separate yourselves from others by it.

You also trouble them that are newly saved and confess Jesus, by bringing in another gospel that commands water baptism to be 'really' saved, and you do so in a formulaic manner that would bind them to your separation.

No doubt you take pride in gaining any such proselyte to yourselves.

I would never preach baptism in water as necessary work of salvation of the soul.

The command of Peter per Acts 2:38 is another gospel?

No, those that preach to ignore Acts 2:38 are preaching another gospel.

It all starts for sinners at Acts 2:38, as it was at Pentecost unto today.

It never changed to God or the Apostles.

It changed via modernists.

 

[robert derrick]

The command of Peter per Acts 2:38 is another gospel?

No, those that preach to ignore Acts 2:38 are preaching another gospel.

It all starts for sinners at Acts 2:38, as it was at Pentecost unto today.

It never changed to God or the Apostles.

It changed via modernists.

Just to clarify: Those that preach Acts 2:38 to become saved are preaching another gospel.

We don't ignore Acts 2:38, any more than any other Scripture. We rightly apply it.

And you do not in a way that purposely divides the body of Christ, and proselytizes converts to your own sect of separation:

For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

And it's all based on the false doctrine of Oneness, which is directly refuted by John 17:22

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.

For all believers to be Oneness as the father and Son are Oneness, they must all be one and the same member of His body, which would be the one and same body of the Father.

You reject this Scripture, in order to believe a lie, in order to believe yourselves specially elite in the faith of Jesus, which is the pride of all such that separate themselves, having not the Spirit in the unity of the body of Christ. (Jude 19)

 

[Truther]

Just to clarify: Those that preach Acts 2:38 to become saved are preaching another gospel.

We don't ignore Acts 2:38, any more than any other Scripture. We rightly apply it.

And you do not in a way that purposely divides the body of Christ, and proselytizes converts to your own sect of separation:

For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

And it's all based on the false doctrine of Oneness, which is directly refuted by John 17:22

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.

For all believers to be Oneness as the father and Son are Oneness, they must all be one and the same member of His body, which would be the one and same body of the Father.

You reject this Scripture, in order to believe a lie, in order to believe yourselves specially elite in the faith of Jesus, which is the pride of all such that separate themselves, having not the Spirit in the unity of the body of Christ. (Jude 19)

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


...Peter's gospel.

What does your gospel tell the 3000 at Pentecost to do?

 

[Truther]

Also Robert, they are unified as one(Father inside the son per John 17).

Which you do not believe either.

You think the Father is alongside the son, not inside the son.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The first is necessary for salvation. The second is necessary obedience in salvation.

Possibly. I've been baptized four times already. But the last one was the one that God spoke to me and told me, "now be baptized in water." So, yes, I was already His, and I obeyed His voice. The first three didn't count in God's eyes.

The Spirit is not received by unsaved sinners, even as new wine is not put into old bottles.

By the hearing of faith we receive the Spirit of God and are saved by Him through grace.

The Spirit IS the One who acts in behalf of repentant unsaved sinners to supernaturally cleanse them of all unrighteousness which includes their carnal nature, and then God enters a clean vessel making a new nature that partakes of God's nature. The unsaved sinners repent because of the faith they receive from hearing the Word of God.

What many believe when they say "by faith" is "no experience." I can't say that. I felt it, and also the removal of my carnal nature was like a great weight lifted off of me - I felt like I was floating, even had to look at my feet to see if they were still on the ground. And the joy that entered me made my cheeks hurt like they had been atrophied and now were being used in a non-stop smile. But the best part was listening to God speak to me and what He said (8 sentences seared into me that I'll never forget.)

And by our new conscience, then baptism by water is done from that good conscience.

True. As in all things of faith, it is done because of being saved. Not to become saved.

You don't bury a live person, only a dead person.

The person being dunked as a type of burial is now dead to sin. He is not a believing yet unsaved sinner that needs be dunked to become saved.

I agree.

As a matter of obedience to the faith and thus a doer of the Word, a saved believer is baptized in water, even as he now does all things by faith of Jesus, whether baptism, giving in support of ministry, assembling with the saints, etc...

It is what your new nature does naturally as it communes with the Spirit and does without opposition from the old carnal nature that is now dead and gone. We don't have to ask ourselves "what would Jesus do?", we already know and naturally do it without hesitation.

 

[Truther]

Obey Acts 2:38, folks.

 

[robert derrick]

Possibly. I've been baptized four times already. But the last one was the one that God spoke to me and told me, "now be baptized in water." So, yes, I was already His, and I obeyed His voice. The first three didn't count in God's eyes.



The Spirit IS the One who acts in behalf of repentant unsaved sinners to supernaturally cleanse them of all unrighteousness which includes their carnal nature, and then God enters a clean vessel making a new nature that partakes of God's nature. The unsaved sinners repent because of the faith they receive from hearing the Word of God.

What many believe when they say "by faith" is "no experience." I can't say that. I felt it, and also the removal of my carnal nature was like a great weight lifted off of me - I felt like I was floating, even had to look at my feet to see if they were still on the ground. And the joy that entered me made my cheeks hurt like they had been atrophied and now were being used in a non-stop smile. But the best part was listening to God speak to me and what He said (8 sentences seared into me that I'll never forget.)


I agree.



It is what your new nature does naturally as it communes with the Spirit and does without opposition from the old carnal nature that is now dead and gone. We don't have to ask ourselves "what would Jesus do?", we already know and naturally do it without hesitation.

Sounds good to me.

What many believe when they say "by faith" is "no experience."

I have had many experiences and revelations, which are blessings from God, especially the comfort of the Holy Spirit.

Living by faith is not based upon spiritual 'experiences' but is the practical experience of obedience to God's Word, whether we 'feel' like it or not.

And so, in temptation we resist doing the evil, and rather choose the good.

They call it not by feeling, but by faith.

Scripture calls it walking by faith, not by sight.

 

[robert derrick]

Obey Acts 2:38, folks.

If saved.

As well as all the Scriptures of God.

Let's not idolize one Scripture above another.

 

[robert derrick]

Also Robert, they are unified as one(Father inside the son per John 17).

Which you do not believe either.

You think the Father is alongside the son, not inside the son.

They are inside One Another, and we are in them, and are all made one in unity.

Not the one and same Person, whether God or believers.

The Son is not the Father, and I am not you.

 

[robert derrick]

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


...Peter's gospel.

/QUOTE]
What does your gospel tell the 3000 at Pentecost to do?

Repent ye and believe the gospel (Mark 1:18)

By which hearing of faith, they were saved by grace at that very moment, in which God saw the faith of His Son in their hearts.

Then they went on as saved believers added to the church of Christ, to obey the Lord's commandment to be baptized in water. And in this case, they would receive the Holy Ghost after obedience to the faith, which had saved them upon hearing and believing.

In the case of Cornelius, the Holy Ghost was received after being saved by grace through faith of hearing, and then they were commanded to be baptized.

Even as there is a definite work of salvation by God between Repent and be baptized, there is also a definite time span between repent, and be baptized in the sight of men.

To repent and believe and be saved by the hearing of faith is the gospel of the cross.

To be baptized with water to become saved is another gospel of man.

Repent ye and believe the gospel of the cross, only.

 

[Truther]

If saved.

As well as all the Scriptures of God.

Let's not idolize one Scripture above another.

Oh, so we are to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of our sins after we are saved? How can we pull that one off?

 

[Truther]

Robert,You said exactly opposite of what Peter said at Pentecost. Your last statement at the end of your post was reverse theology.

 

[Truther]

They are inside One Another, and we are in them, and are all made one in unity.

Not the one and same Person, whether God or believers.

The Son is not the Father, and I am not you.

Here is how it works. Sinners are not in God. Only those that God is in(inside)are in God. It’s really that easy.
So when Jesus says to “get in God”, he means for God to get in them. Just like God was in(inside)Jesus, Jesus was in God.

 

[Truther]

Possibly. I've been baptized four times already. But the last one was the one that God spoke to me and told me, "now be baptized in water." So, yes, I was already His, and I obeyed His voice. The first three didn't count in God's eyes.



The Spirit IS the One who acts in behalf of repentant unsaved sinners to supernaturally cleanse them of all unrighteousness which includes their carnal nature, and then God enters a clean vessel making a new nature that partakes of God's nature. The unsaved sinners repent because of the faith they receive from hearing the Word of God.

What many believe when they say "by faith" is "no experience." I can't say that. I felt it, and also the removal of my carnal nature was like a great weight lifted off of me - I felt like I was floating, even had to look at my feet to see if they were still on the ground. And the joy that entered me made my cheeks hurt like they had been atrophied and now were being used in a non-stop smile. But the best part was listening to God speak to me and what He said (8 sentences seared into me that I'll never forget.)


I agree.



It is what your new nature does naturally as it communes with the Spirit and does without opposition from the old carnal nature that is now dead and gone. We don't have to ask ourselves "what would Jesus do?", we already know and naturally do it without hesitation.

Question, are any of these four baptismal experiences in your life, in the name of Jesus Christ by immersion for the remission of your sins?

 

[robert derrick]

Oh, so we are to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of our sins after we are saved? How can we pull that one off?

By doing so.

God pulls off salvation by grace through faith. Men pull off water baptism by obedience to the faith.

Simple.