Christians are not under the New Covenant

[Ronald Nolette]

he is not a negotiator but a mediator

mediator
[ˈmēdēˌādər]
NOUN

1. a person who attempts to make people involved in a conflict come to an agreement; a go-between.

Never said he was a negotiator, gthough th eterms are very synonymous. techinically a mediator is a go between when a conflict is present and a negotiator is a go between i a disagreement of terms of a contract.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The prophecies of bringing the two houses together was fulfilled. As above, many of the House of Judea and the House of Israel became the seed of the "Christian Church". The Jews did have the privilege of being the first to believe in the NC as the following verses indicate as you can see...Act 2:41, 4:4, 5:14, 6:7, 8:6
- So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
- But many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to about five thousand.
- And more than ever believers were added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women,
- And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were obedient to the faith.
- And the multitudes with one accord gave heed to what was said by Philip,..

and I do not disagree with that. But being the first to believe in Christ does not fulfill the prophecy of Jeremish 31:31-34, th eprophecy contains 0 about who gets to believe first.

the prophecy of the two houses being one is in Exodus and not Jeremiah! Israel is still not one house but two!

(Note: Edited for brevity) I told you all of this before...."In Peter's sermon, the first words to the Jewish crowd in Acts 2:14 & 22 were....
...But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words.
..."Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs which God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know--

It is sad how badly you will butcher grammar to twist Gods Word to your will. Peter was in Jerusalem, which is in Judea, Judea is not a house of Israel but one of twelve lands of Israel!

Then he goes further to address all Israelis (all 12 tribes who may have been there) no where does this show the divided tribes had been united!

Do you still continue to deny scripture proof of Jeremiah's 31 prophecy and Ezekiel's 2 sticks prophecy along with undeniable supporting lexicons and Vine's Dictionary in regards to "naos" and "hieron?"1. HIERON, sacred, is used as a noun denoting a sacred place, a temple, ...signifying the entire building with it precints, or some part therof, as distinct from the "naos.".....Hieron is never used figuratively. Christ taught in the courts - the "hieron" area.
2. NAOS, a shrine or sanctuary, was used among the Jews, the sanctuary in the Temple, into which only the priests could lawfully enter...​

Maybe you should read my posts . You would be surprised I agree here!

Naos refers to teh temple proper in Israel. In your diagram of the temple it invovled 1,2,3,4. 5-15 would be considered the hieron of the temple.

Jeremiah's prophesy fulfilled- Not will be!
Luk 22:20 - And likewise the cup after supper, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

Mt. 26
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Your woeful lack of understanding what is being said is saddening.

Jesus is not saying that His blood is the fulfilment of Jeremiah 31:31-34 which is the new covenant to Israel, but as was the custom even in Jesus' day, blood had to be spilled to ratify or insure a covenant would go into effect! IOW Jesus' blood was the price paid to insure the covenant as spelled out in Jer. 31:31-34 will be fulfilled! This has nothing to do with when the covenant will be fulfilled nor is the cup the new covenant but the cup which stood for HIs blood (which wasn't shed at the Last Supper) is the bond the copvenant will be enforced. also Jesus blood is not the remission of sins but is the price paid for the remission of sins!

But let us humor you for a minute. Israel is now the church, and the church is the temple(naos) of God! Let us uncloudy God's word and write it according to your definitions in the following verses.

2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple(naos) of God, shewing himself that he is God.

as you say the temple of God is now the church- the antichrist possesses the church all untold numbers. Quite a feat for a person to do!!!!!!

All from Romans 11:

7 What then? Israel (the church) hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Who are these elect that have obtained what the church has not?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel (the church), until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

who are the gentiles here and do you know what part of the church is hardened? Do you have verses to support your conclusion?

Romans 9:6
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel (the church), which are of Israel (the church):

Romans 9:31
But Israel (the church), which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

Romans 10:1
Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel (the church) is, that they might be saved.

Galatians 6:16
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel (church) of God.

Who are the others who walk according to the rule Paul laid down in Galatians if not the church?

Ephesians 2:12
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel (the church), and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

1. Hebrews 8:8
   For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel (the church) and with the house of Judah:
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. Hebrews 8:10
   For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel (the church) after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

tell me what was the old covenant God made with the church??????


Revelation 2:14
But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel (the church), to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

Revelation 7:4
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel (the church).

Revelation 21:12
And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israelthe church)

So when do we go to print with the NEW MORIAH TRANSLATION OF THE HOLY SCRIPTURES. So that we can clean up the muddy language God inspired those writers of the old translation of the Bible

 

[Curtis]

All men are redeemed!
Christ redeemed the whole world
Jn 1:29

Jesus redeemed only those who believe.

 

[theefaith]

Jesus redeemed only those who believe.

Lk 2:10-11 savior of all men

redeemed does not mean salvation

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

(Redemption is not Salvation)
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

 

[Moriah's Song]

Mt. 26
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Your woeful lack of understanding what is being said is saddening.

Jesus is not saying that His blood is the fulfilment of Jeremiah 31:31-34 which is the new covenant to Israel, but as was the custom even in Jesus' day, blood had to be spilled to ratify or insure a covenant would go into effect! IOW Jesus' blood was the price paid to insure the covenant as spelled out in Jer. 31:31-34 will be fulfilled!

LOL.."and so said the serpent to Eve"....

Luk 22:20..And likewise the cup after supper, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

1Co 11:25...In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."​

Do you even read scripture before you post things that can easily be refuted?

 

[Moriah's Song]

RCCborn reinterpretation of the bible

Now there you go again posting your judgement without any knowledge of my denomination as it has never been posted by me on this thread or any other thread.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

LOL.."and so said the serpent to Eve"....

Luk 22:20..And likewise the cup after supper, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

1Co 11:25...In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."​

Do you even read scripture before you post things that can easily be refuted?

So then you are saying the cup that Jesus offered is the new covenant? Ok then! His death has nothing to do with it. And all celebrations of the Lords supper have nothing to do with it! It was that specific cup cuz that is what Jesus said!

SWee I can act as ignorant as you as to what Jesus was showing.

I betcha you don't even know the name of the particular cup served at Passover Jesus said this on?

I betcha you don't know which of the four cups Jesus said this on. By this I mean which of the four cups, 1-2-3-4?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Now there you go again posting your judgement without any knowledge of my denomination as it has never been posted by me on this thread or any other thread.

I don't have to know which sect of christendom you belong to. If your sect believes in what you say here, it is the doctrine born by the RCC church . Its seed was planted by Augustine in his tome "The city of God! He gave birth to modern reinterpreting scriptures! So, any sect that espouses the anti semitic replacement theology that you espouse, holds to the RCC created doctrine.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

LOL.."and so said the serpent to Eve"....

Luk 22:20..And likewise the cup after supper, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

1Co 11:25...In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."​

Do you even read scripture before you post things that can easily be refuted?

Once again Jesus' blood i snot teh new covenant, but teh price paid to pay for the new covenant.

If you disagree, please sho wme where blood is mentioned in the entire content of the new covenant as found in Jer. 31:

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

ALSO, STILL WAITING FOR YOU TO SHOW ME IN TEH TEXT OF THE NEW COVENANT WHERE GENTILES ARE MENTIONED.

 

[Moriah's Song]

I don't have to know which sect of christendom you belong to. If your sect believes in what you say here, it is the doctrine born by the RCC church . Its seed was planted by Augustine in his tome "The city of God! He gave birth to modern reinterpreting scriptures! So, any sect that espouses the anti semitic replacement theology that you espouse, holds to the RCC created doctrine.

You have no right to be saying that I belong to any "sect" let alone the "RCC" and is inappropriate at best. The Doctrine of the New Covenant is by Christ alone in scripture and its "seed" is the "ekklesia" or the Jewish/Christian church with its foundation in Jesus Christ; was instituted at the Lord's Supper, and "fulfilled/ratified" by the blood of Jesus shed on the cross.

In saying "any sect that espouses the anti semitic replacement theology that you espouse" I am in no way anti-semitic nor do I "espouse anti-semitic replacement theology" of which you unrighteously judged me!

Quite frankly it is Darby's dispensational views, which you have shown that you hold to, that is actually very anti-semitic because dispensationalism creates a separation between the Christian church and the Jews when Ephesians 2 clearly says the exact opposite of what dispensationalism claims. I have shown that the New Covenant for the present time to be for both Jewish believers and believing Gentiles which compose the "true church of Christ" according to scripture, of which you repeatedly deny.

 

[Moriah's Song]

If you disagree, please sho wme where blood is mentioned in the entire content of the new covenant as found in Jer. 31:

What you are really asking me to do is to change the word of God to fit into your smokescreen by adding a word that does not belong in that prophecy like the serpent did to Eve....he changed the wording to fit his deception!!!!

But like Jesus said when Satan tried to temp Jesus he said "Again it is written, 'You shall not tempt the Lord your God.'"

 

[Moriah's Song]

Once again Jesus' blood i snot teh new covenant, but teh price paid to pay for the new covenant.

Here you have all the right words but the sentence is written inappropriately. It shoud be written....

"The New Covenant was instituted by the blood of Christ that was shed on the cross and ratified upon His resurrection."

His blood itself is not the New Covenant. His blood is what he shed for the New Covenant to be enacted.

Mat 5:17 - "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.​

 

[Moriah's Song]

So then you are saying the cup that Jesus offered is the new covenant? Ok then! His death has nothing to do with it. And all celebrations of the Lords supper have nothing to do with it! It was that specific cup cuz that is what Jesus said!

Accept what Jesus and the New Testament says and stop fighting with Scripture in order to sustain false doctrines taught by a man in 1800's. That is the "sect" you are so deep into that you don't even make sense half the time because Darby's newly invented doctrine keeps the blindfolds on to his followers.

2Pe 2:1 - "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction."

Classic dispensationalism began with John Nelson Darby. Darby was succeeded by Scotlands' C. I. Scofield, the Bible teacher Harry A. Ironside, Lewis Sperry Chafer, William R. Newell, Miles J. Stanford, and in recent years, John Walvrood, each of whom identified Pentecost (Acts 2) with the start of the Church as distinct from Israel; this may be referred to as the “Acts 2” position. Other Acts 2 Pauline dispensationalists include R. B. Shiflet, Roy A. Huebner, and Carol Berubee.

 

[theefaith]

It’s one thing

it began in the upper room
Then to the garden
Then the suffering and death on the cross

 

[Moriah's Song]

ALSO, STILL WAITING FOR YOU TO SHOW ME IN TEH TEXT OF THE NEW COVENANT WHERE GENTILES ARE MENTIONED.

Keep waiting! The same applies to your previous unacceptable and completely unreasonable demand....

If you disagree, please sho wme where blood is mentioned in the entire content of the new covenant as found in Jer. 31:

Mat 13:14 - "With them indeed is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah which says: 'You shall indeed hear but never understand, and you shall indeed see but never perceive."

Accept what Jesus and the New Testament says and stop fighting with Scripture in order to sustain false doctrines taught by a man in 1800's. That is the "sect" you are so deep into that you don't even make sense half the time because Darby's newly invented doctrine keeps the blindfolds on to his followers.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Well show me how Pentecost fulfilled the new covenant as God inspired!

Luk 18:31 - And taking the twelve, he said to them, "Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written of the Son of man by the prophets will be accomplished.

Q- Are you calling Jesus a liar and that he did not fulfill "ALL" of what was he said was written of Him by the prophet Jeremiah in 31:31?

Jhn 19:30 When Jesus had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished"; and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

 

[keithr]

I betcha you don't know which of the four cups Jesus said this on. By this I mean which of the four cups, 1-2-3-4?

Number 3 - right?

 

[Moriah's Song]

mediator
[ˈmēdēˌādər]
NOUN

Vine's Expository Dictionary
MESITES (Gk) - literally a go-between (from mesos, middle, and eimi, to go), is used in two ways in the N.T.,

a) one who mediates between two parties with a view to producing peace, as in 1 Tim. 2:5, though more than mere mediatorship is in view, for the salvation of men necessitated that the Mediator should Himself possess the nature and attributes of Him towards who He acts, and should likewise participate in the nature of those for whom he acts (sin apart); only by being possessed both of Deity and humanity could He comprehend the claims of the one and the needs of the other; further, the claims and the needs could be met only by One who, Himself being proved sinless, would offer Himself an expiatory sacrifice on behalf of men;

b) one who acts as a guarantee so as to secure something which otherwise would not be obtained. Thus in Heb 8:6; 9:15; 12:24 Christ is the Surety of "the better covenant," - "the new covenant," guaranteeing its terms for his people.

Who are "his people?"

Mat 2:6...'And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for from you shall come a ruler who will govern my people Israel.'"​

Rom 9:25...As indeed he says in Hose'a, "Those who were not my people I will call 'my people,' and her who was not beloved I will call 'my beloved.'"

Rom 9:26..."And in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' they will be called 'sons of the living God.'"

2Co 6:16...What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will live in them and move among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.​

Heb 8:10...This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God,.......and they shall be my people.​

Israel is God's people; both Jews and Gentiles...the church of the New Covenant!

I meant to write show me in Jermiah 31:31 where the church is involved in teh New covenant or that Gentiles are involved. Please point out the verse!

Just read the above verses.

 

[theefaith]

Keep waiting! The same applies to your previous unacceptable and completely unreasonable demand....
Mat 13:14 - "With them indeed is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah which says: 'You shall indeed hear but never understand, and you shall indeed see but never perceive."

Accept what Jesus and the New Testament says and stop fighting with Scripture in order to sustain false doctrines taught by a man in 1800's. That is the "sect" you are so deep into that you don't even make sense half the time because Darby's newly invented doctrine keeps the blindfolds on to his followers.

GENTILES ARE MENTIONED?

Lk 2:10-11 all people
Jn 1:29 the whole world
Jn 3:16 anybody “whosoever”

 

[theefaith]

Vine's Expository Dictionary
MESITES (Gk) - literally a go-between (from mesos, middle, and eimi, to go), is used in two ways in the N.T.,

a) one who mediates between two parties with a view to producing peace, as in 1 Tim. 2:5, though more than mere mediatorship is in view, for the salvation of men necessitated that the Mediator should Himself possess the nature and attributes of Him towards who He acts, and should likewise participate in the nature of those for whom he acts (sin apart); only by being possessed both of Deity and humanity could He comprehend the claims of the one and the needs of the other; further, the claims and the needs could be met only by One who, Himself being proved sinless, would offer Himself an expiatory sacrifice on behalf of men;

b) one who acts as a guarantee so as to secure something which otherwise would not be obtained. Thus in Heb 8:6; 9:15; 12:24 Christ is the Surety of "the better covenant," - "the new covenant," guaranteeing its terms for his people.

Who are "his people?"

Mat 2:6...'And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for from you shall come a ruler who will govern my people Israel.'"​

Rom 9:25...As indeed he says in Hose'a, "Those who were not my people I will call 'my people,' and her who was not beloved I will call 'my beloved.'"

Rom 9:26..."And in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' they will be called 'sons of the living God.'"

2Co 6:16...What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will live in them and move among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.​

Heb 8:10...This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God,.......and they shall be my people.​

Israel is God's people; both Jews and Gentiles...the church of the New Covenant!

1. 1 Peter 2:9
   But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
   
   Colossians 1:20
   And, having made peace through the bloodof his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.