Christians are not under the New Covenant

[Ronald Nolette]

Fruchtenbaum graduated with a Master of Theology degree from Dallas Theological Seminary. (Wikipedia)

Now I can see how you are so deeply embeded with dispensationalism to the degree you are unable to comprehend the truth that the New Covenant was instituted first to the Jewish 11 disciples at the Last Supper and became a reality after the blood of Christ was shed on the cross. Dallas Theological Seminary and Gordon Seminary are cesspools for unwary individuals that are taken in by the mass producing books, Hal Lindsays "The Late Great Planet Earth" and cesspool of TV preachers like Pat Robinson promoting the false theory of dispensationalism that originiated in England back in the early 1800's. It was Dallas Theo. Sem. and C.I. Scofield who saw a potential to get rich through Moody Publishing Co. order to make them rich and famous - all for the purpose of promoting dispensationalism which denies the New Covenant that originated for Christian believers to this day.

And a THDE from Union theological- a covenant theology school! or was!

But smears and scandals against brethren is th etool of children. Robinson is not a dispensationalist but a dominion theologian. And you err. Dispensationalism was reborn in the 1800's after the RCC buried it for over a millenia under covenant theology.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

When Peter preached his Pentecostal sermon to the multitude of Jews that were in Jerusalem for the feast 3,000 Jews repented and were baptized. For those to say that the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31 was not fulfilled in the Jewish/Christian believers of Israel and Judah, they are severly mistaken as the book of Acts clearly reveals the truth that Jesus brought the House of Israel and the House of Judah todgether as prophesied!

Well show me how Pentecost fulfilled the new covenant as God inspired!

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

esus said..."I have fulfilled all that the Father has given me." Do you get that word "all?" That included the Jeremiah 31 prophesy that Frutchenbaum and Darby and all the other promoters of dispensationalism denies that Jesus did was the Father told him to do. That is tatamount to being a "false prophet" according to scripture.

Show one time Jesus said He was fulfilling the new covenant. show me verse by verse:

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

To say that the Jews did not have the privilege of being the first to believe in the NC is an outright lie as the following verses indicate....and I did not even post those Jews and Gentiles that Paul brought to Christ ---- all being taught the New Covenant for them at the time.

Well as you have shown yourself a careless reader of Gods word, I am not surprised by this answer.

but you trip yourself up for you overlook one little word which proves your hypothesis wrong> that little word is "all".

Maybe I missed it in the several huyndred times I read the new covenant which is spelled out in Jeremiah 31:31-34:

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


But in verse 34 god says that all Israel and Judah "shall" know HIm form the least to the greatest. If yu can show me from a reputable disctionary or bible study tool how all really means just a representative sample at Pentecost, I will listen. Otherwise you would do well to pay attention to Gods Word as it is written and not reinterpreted.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Please show me where the new covenant is mentioned once here:

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

Sure can!!

Re: New (Hebrew) (Note: I had to edit some verses out due to over 10,000 letters)
Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon Abbreviations
† חָדָשׁ adjective new (on formation see LgBN 48) — ח׳ absolute Exodus 1:8 + 19 times; feminine חֲדָשָׁה Leviticus 23:16 + 19 times; plural חֲדָשִׁים Deuteronomy 32:17 + 10 times; feminine חֲדָשׁוֺת Isaiah 42:9; Isaiah 48:6; — new, usually
a. attrib. Exodus 1:8 (E) a new king; so of house Deuteronomy 20:5; ........שִׁיר ח׳ a new song (of praise); בְּרִית ח׳ Jeremiah 31:31; שָׁמַיִם חדשׁים וארץ חדשׁה Isaiah 65:17; compare Isaiah 66:22; שֵׁם ח׳ Isaiah 62:2; רוּחַ ח׳ a new spirit Ezekiel 11:19; Ezekiel 18:31; Ezekiel 36:26, + לֵב ח׳ Ezekiel 18:31; Ezekiel 36:26; הֶח׳ מֶּתַח שַׁעַריֿ׳ Jeremiah 26:10 new gate of (house of) י׳, compare Jeremiah 36:10

STRONGS H1285:Abbreviations
בְּרִית 285 noun feminine covenant

k. the prophetic covenant, a divine promise through a series of prophets to establish a new constitution ברית חדשׁה Jeremiah 31:31, with new institutions and precepts ; Jeremiah 31:31, 33; Jeremiah 32:40; Jeremiah 50:5; Ezekiel 16:60, 62; Ezekiel 20:37; Ezekiel 34:25; Ezekiel 37:26; Hosea 2:20. In Isa2 the Messianic servant is ברית עם Isaiah 42:6; Isaiah 49:8, compare מלאך הברית Malachi 3:1.
III. Phrases.
1. covenant making: כרת ברית Isaiah 55:3; Isaiah 61:8; Jeremiah 11:10; Jeremiah 31:31, 32, 33; Jeremiah 32:40; Jeremiah 34:13; Ezekiel 34:25; Ezekiel 37:26; Hosea 2:20;

45 version use the words "NEW COVENANT" as in Jeremiah's prophesy in 31:31

Jer 31:31 - "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,​

Jeremiah's prophesy fulfilled:

Luk 22:20 - And likewise the cup after supper, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood. (Not will be!)​

Note: "IS" is a present term; not a "future" term at all and cannot be re-interpreted to fit ones pre-conceived indoctrinations without deliberately twisting scripture.

The new covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is fulfilled in Jesus Christ. With his blood through his death on the cross, Jesus establishes the new covenant where God’s law is written upon people’s hearts, and God shall be their God and they shall be God’s people. All this is fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Dispensationalism was reborn in the 1800's after the RCC buried it for over a millenia under covenant theology.

LOL! So that is what they are telling you??? Plug in the term "origins of dispensationalism" on your computer and you will get a pletora of the people who propagated dispensationalism. You are following false prophets like Darby and Fruchenbaum and Dallas Theo. Sem. to name only a few.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Robinson is not a dispensationalist but a dominion theologian

Fundamental to Robinson’s theology is theological school of Dispensationalism, which teaches that the Old Covenant promises were not fully realized in Christ and the Church but that they are yet to be fulfilled in a ethnically Jewish manifestation of the political nation of Israel. This sort of thinking expressly denies that the Church is the “New Israel” of God.

slife.org › dispensationalismDispensationalism - The Spiritual Life

• History
• Influence
• Messianic Judaism

Dispensationalism developed as a system from the teachings of John Nelson Darby, considered by some to be the father of dispensationalism (1800–82), who strongly influenced the Plymouth Brethren of the 1830s in Ireland and England. The original concept came when Darby considered the implications of Isaiah 32 for Israel. He saw that prophecy required a future fulfillment and realization of Israel’s kingdom. The New Testament church was seen as a separate program not related to that kingdom.

 

[Cassandra]

Salvation came to gentiles to make Israel jealous.

Are you serious? God wants all to be saved.
Not willing that any should perish... 2 Peter 3:9

" The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

 

[Curtis]

Fruchtenbaum graduated with a Master of Theology degree from Dallas Theological Seminary. (Wikipedia)

Now I can see how you are so deeply embeded with dispensationalism to the degree you are unable to comprehend the truth that the New Covenant was instituted first to the Jewish 11 disciples at the Last Supper and became a reality after the blood of Christ was shed on the cross. Dallas Theological Seminary and Gordon Seminary are cesspools for unwary individuals that are taken in by the mass producing books, Hal Lindsays "The Late Great Planet Earth" and cesspool of TV preachers like Pat Robinson promoting the false theory of dispensationalism that originiated in England back in the early 1800's. It was Dallas Theo. Sem. and C.I. Scofield who saw a potential to get rich through Moody Publishing Co. order to make them rich and famous - all for the purpose of promoting dispensationalism which denies the New Covenant that originated for Christian believers to this day.

That New Covenant, which you totally reject, would never have been a reality for us Christian believers today had it not been for Christs' shed blood for us. If you look back at the Siani Mosaic Covenant you will see that Moses threw blood onto "his people" that represeted exactly what Jesus would do for us on the cross. Biblical covenants required blood. At the institution of the NC at the last supper, wine represented Christs' blood that would bring last and only Covenant into Chritianity.

When Peter preached his Pentecostal sermon to the multitude of Jews that were in Jerusalem for the feast 3,000 Jews repented and were baptized. For those to say that the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31 was not fulfilled in the Jewish/Christian believers of Israel and Judah, they are severly mistaken as the book of Acts clearly reveals the truth that Jesus brought the House of Israel and the House of Judah todgether as prophesied!

Jesus said..."I have fulfilled all that the Father has given me." Do you get that word "all?" That included the Jeremiah 31 prophesy that Frutchenbaum and Darby and all the other promoters of dispensationalism denies that Jesus did was the Father told him to do. That is tatamount to being a "false prophet" according to scripture.

To say that the Jews did not have the privilege of being the first to believe in the NC is an outright lie as the following verses indicate....and I did not even post those Jews and Gentiles that Paul brought to Christ ---- all being taught the New Covenant for them at the time.

Act 2:41 - So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
Act 2:47 - "...And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.
Act 4:4 - But many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to about five thousand.
Act 5:14 - And more than ever believers were added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women,
Act 6:7 - And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were obedient to the faith.
Act 8:6 - And the multitudes with one accord gave heed to what was said by Philip,...​

Nowhere in Pauls writings does he say anything about the "not now" NC for those Jewish/Christian converts. Instead Paul taught the exact opposite.

PAUL taught the NEW COVENANT in 2 CORINTHIANS 3:7-11

The New Covenant is at the very heart of Christianity. To dismiss and deny that Christs' blood was not shed for it and that it was for the Jews sometime in the future, could have serious consequences to it.

The Jeremiah 31 New covenant Is still with the house of Israel, Gentile believers are grafted into their new covenant - there is no such thing as a church covenant anywhere in Scripture.

Jesus said salvation is of the Jews - that’s because he came only for the Jews originally, he is the Jewish Messiah, and the new covenant he brought is still with the house of Israel - we gentiles get grafted into the covenant by our faith - and as Romans 11 makes clear, salvation came to the Gentiles to make Israel jealous.

 

[Curtis]

Are you serious? God wants all to be saved.
Not willing that any should perish... 2 Peter 3:9

" The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

Jesus came originally only for the lost sheep of the house Israel, and he told the apostles to avoid the gentile cities in their travels.

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

It’s only because God’s chosen people, Israel, mostly rejected Jesus, their Messiah and their Savior, that salvation opened up to the Gentiles.

Romans 11 clearly says that salvation came to the Gentiles to make the Jews jealous.

Rom 11:11 So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather, through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

My quote in post #490....Denying that the New Covenant is for us; the Body of Christ, the church, is tantamount to denying the blood of Christ and the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit.

Nor did I say that you are unsaved! I do not know that; only God knows that. I posted a truth from scripture; not an accusation or judgement.

Anyone who denies the New Covenant is for us; the Body of Christ, the church, is tantamount to denying the blood of Christ and the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit.

That is an absolute fact of which I have provided ample proof of through many verses of which you are so deep into dispensationalism that you don't have the "ears to hear" truth when it is presented to you. Instead you result to insulting people.

Well maybe I should attribute your slander to being a baby Christian, but to deny the blood and the indwelling Spirit is to say one is unsaved! You can't get around your ad hominem.

Show the verse that defends your two accusations!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Sure can!!

Re: New (Hebrew) (Note: I had to edit some verses out due to over 10,000 letters)
Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon Abbreviations
† חָדָשׁ adjective new (on formation see LgBN 48) — ח׳ absolute Exodus 1:8 + 19 times; feminine חֲדָשָׁה Leviticus 23:16 + 19 times; plural חֲדָשִׁים Deuteronomy 32:17 + 10 times; feminine חֲדָשׁוֺת Isaiah 42:9; Isaiah 48:6; — new, usually
a. attrib. Exodus 1:8 (E) a new king; so of house Deuteronomy 20:5; ........שִׁיר ח׳ a new song (of praise); בְּרִית ח׳ Jeremiah 31:31; שָׁמַיִם חדשׁים וארץ חדשׁה Isaiah 65:17; compare Isaiah 66:22; שֵׁם ח׳ Isaiah 62:2; רוּחַ ח׳ a new spirit Ezekiel 11:19; Ezekiel 18:31; Ezekiel 36:26, + לֵב ח׳ Ezekiel 18:31; Ezekiel 36:26; הֶח׳ מֶּתַח שַׁעַריֿ׳ Jeremiah 26:10 new gate of (house of) י׳, compare Jeremiah 36:10

STRONGS H1285:Abbreviations
בְּרִית 285 noun feminine covenant

k. the prophetic covenant, a divine promise through a series of prophets to establish a new constitution ברית חדשׁה Jeremiah 31:31, with new institutions and precepts ; Jeremiah 31:31, 33; Jeremiah 32:40; Jeremiah 50:5; Ezekiel 16:60, 62; Ezekiel 20:37; Ezekiel 34:25; Ezekiel 37:26; Hosea 2:20. In Isa2 the Messianic servant is ברית עם Isaiah 42:6; Isaiah 49:8, compare מלאך הברית Malachi 3:1.
III. Phrases.
1. covenant making: כרת ברית Isaiah 55:3; Isaiah 61:8; Jeremiah 11:10; Jeremiah 31:31, 32, 33; Jeremiah 32:40; Jeremiah 34:13; Ezekiel 34:25; Ezekiel 37:26; Hosea 2:20;

45 version use the words "NEW COVENANT" as in Jeremiah's prophesy in 31:31

Jer 31:31 - "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,​

Jeremiah's prophesy fulfilled:

Luk 22:20 - And likewise the cup after supper, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood. (Not will be!)​

Note: "IS" is a present term; not a "future" term at all and cannot be re-interpreted to fit ones pre-conceived indoctrinations without deliberately twisting scripture.

The new covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is fulfilled in Jesus Christ. With his blood through his death on the cross, Jesus establishes the new covenant4 where God’s law is written upon people’s hearts, and God shall be their God and they shall be God’s people. All this is fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

Well that was my bad for not putting words I intended. I meant to write show me from Jeremiah 31:31-34 where the church is involved in teh New covenant or that Gentiles are involved. Please point out the verse!

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Are gentiles referred to verse 31?
Were Gentiles taken out of the land of Egypt as a nation in verse 32?
Has God written his laws in the house of Israel already as it says in verse 33?
Where are gentiles referred to in verse 34?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Fundamental to Robinson’s theology is theological school of Dispensationalism, which teaches that the Old Covenant promises were not fully realized in Christ and the Church but that they are yet to be fulfilled in a ethnically Jewish manifestation of the political nation of Israel. This sort of thinking expressly denies that the Church is the “New Israel” of God.

slife.org › dispensationalismDispensationalism - The Spiritual Life

• History
• Influence
• Messianic Judaism

Dispensationalismdeveloped as a system from the teachings of John Nelson Darby, considered by some to be the father of dispensationalism (1800–82), who strongly influenced the Plymouth Brethren of the 1830s in Ireland and England. The original concept came when Darby considered the implications of Isaiah 32 for Israel. He saw that prophecy required a future fulfillment and realization of Israel’s kingdom. The New Testament church was seen as a separate program not related to that kingdom.

My bad I saw that as Pat Robertson, but yes Robinson though holding some rather bizaare doctrines does hold to biblical dispensationalism.

And actually dispensationalism was reborn in the 19th century. Covenantal theology with its anti-semitic root held sway in teh church since its birth with Augustine and promulgated by the RCC since!

The fact that Israel still has a place in the plan of God and that there is a literal physical kingdom on earth are biblical. That is if one accepts Gods Word as written.

but if you refuse to accept Gods word as it is written concerning who the new covenant is made to, why should I accept your teachings on this as literal.

Fundamental to Robinson’s theology is theological school of Dispensationalism, which teaches that the Old Covenant promises were not fully realized in Christ and the Church but that they are yet to be fulfilled in a ethnically Jewish manifestation of the political nation of Israel. This sort of thinking expressly denies that the Church is the “New Israel” of God.

Well I can't speak to all of Robinsons theology or even his dispensational view, I have never studied his works.

But you hold to what is known as replacement theology which is a major tenet of covenantal theology and began with the RCC. Men of God were mocked in the 1800's when they taught that Israel would be restored to the land of Israel. Driven out of churches and slandered as you do me. But they returned.

It was prophesied that God would scatter Israel to the world and gather them back! They are in the midst of fulfilling Gods promise in Ez. 20:

Ezekiel 20:33-38
King James Version

33 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.

36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.

37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

This is literally being fulfilled now! The fact God is gathering them in anger presuposses not all are saved, just like right now. God gathers then God purges!

The church is not the Israel of God! Teh remnant of Israel in the church age is the Israel of God! You need to dump this RCC born lie! YOu accept this falsehood because you fail to see that holding this based on reinterpreting the one verse:

Galatians 6:16
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. is terrible grammar and tossing out all rules of grammar to reinterpret the Word of God! Those who keep this verse in Context know that Paul is blessing the gentiles and Jews in the church! That is what the whole letter of Galatians is about.


Teh church was a mystery in the old, fulfilled in the new. Teh church is the promise, that along with the remnant of Israel, we are the people from the nations being called out for His name!

If you could show one verse that specifically and not allegorically derivded that the church is the New ISrael of God, I would believe it! But you can't!

Teh major difference between covenant believers and dispensational believers is that we hold to a literal/historical/ grammatical understanding of Scripture where you hold that whole many passages are to be taken literally, all OT prophecies are to be taken allegorically and what God promised to Israel is nor property of the Chruch! No Wonder why most people who believe they can lose their salvation are allegorists. After all if God can brake His promises to Israel, He could do the same to the church!

See when I read "and it shall come to pass" and there is no condition attached to that decree- God will make it come to pass just as He declared it!

By the way still waiting for you to show me the church and/or Gentiles in the content of Gods New Covenant as written in His Word.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Jesus cast away the generation of Israel He lived in, but He promised them they would see him again when they did something! And they will, Jesus, Paul and JOhn all wrote that the nation of Israel as a nation will receive Jesus as Messiah and the entire nation will be saved! Just as it was prophesied several times in teh OT when God said "it shall come to pass". Sorry you can't believe God at His Word but has to edit HIm as if He needed correction from any puny human.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Fundamental to Robinson’s theology is theological school of Dispensationalism, which teaches that the Old Covenant promises were not fully realized in Christ and the Church but that they are yet to be fulfilled in a ethnically Jewish manifestation of the political nation of Israel. This sort of thinking expressly denies that the Church is the “New Israel” of God.

One verse shatters your hypothesis born in the RCC:

Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Teh church has twelve tribes? when did this happen? What are they?

 

[Moriah's Song]

Well that was my bad for not putting words I intended. I meant to write show me from Jeremiah 31:31-34 where the church is involved in teh New covenant or that Gentiles are involved. Please point out the verse!

I did that in post #539 above but I will re-post it again below.

First though are two verses spoken by Jesus BEFORE the New Covenant was instituted at the Lord's Supper that use the word "church" before Jesus died, was resurrected, and ascended into heaven:
Mat 16:18...And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.

Verse 18 -
Fact: Peter was a Jew
Fact: Jesus already is indicatiing that those Jewish "discisples/apostles to be" the origin, or the foundation of the Church of Jesus Christ.​

Mat 18:17...If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Verse 17 - Here Jesus is telling them how the New Covenant "church" brethren were to resolve differences.​

But Pentecost has not happened at this point though.

Moving on to Pentecost and Peter's sermon, we hear this from Peter's first words to the crowd of Jews that had come together...

Act 2:14...But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words."​

Then when hear him addressing another group of Jews...

Act 2:22..."Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs which God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know--​

This clearly indicates that the "two sticks" prophesy and Jeremiah's prophesy of bringing the two houses together was fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost because from that day forward they became believers in Christ and were the ones that dispersed in all the region to spread the gospel of Christ.

Also, the "church" has several different names such as "the body of Christ, my people, brethren, assembly, congregation, saints, believers etc.

Now as I posted previously, this also indicates just how many of those from the House of Judea and the House of Israel became the seed of what became the "Christian Church"; God's people, composed of both Jews and Gentiles as in Ephesians 2.

To say that the Jews did not have the privilege of being the first to believe in the NC is an outright lie as the following verses indicate....and I did not even post those Jews and Gentiles that Paul brought to Christ ---- all being taught the New Covenant for them at the time.

Act 2:41 - So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
Act 2:47 - "...And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.
Act 4:4 - But many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to about five thousand.
Act 5:14 - And more than ever believers were added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women,
Act 6:7 - And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were obedient to the faith.
Act 8:6 - And the multitudes with one accord gave heed to what was said by Philip,...​

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Moving on to Pentecost and Peter's sermon, we hear this from Peter's first words to the crowd of Jews that had come together...
Act 2:14...But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words."
Then when hear him addressing another group of Jews...

Act 2:22..."Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs which God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know--
This clearly indicates that the "two sticks" prophesy and Jeremiah's prophesy of bringing the two houses together was fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost because from that day forward they became believers in Christ and were the ones that dispersed in all the region to spread the gospel of Christ.

No it does not clearly indicate. If it did as this is one sermon addressed to the same group, Peter clearly delineated the Judeans and Israelties! while there is an implication that Israel and Judah are restored, it can't be discerned in the content of the New Covenant:

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

If you see it- please show me in which verse you see it!

However what I find amazing is that you take the Ezekiel 37 prophecy of God joining Israel again as one tribe (which He di dnot do at Pentecost, Israel was still scattered) but yet toss the rest of the prophecy aside as if meaningless. whenh the whole reason for joingin them together again is to give them the kingdom!

Ezekiel 37:15-28
King James Version

15 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,

16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:

17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?

19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.

21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

28 And the heathen shall know that I the Lord do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore

You toss aside verses 21-28 or somewhow reinterpret teh Word of God to make this mean the church somehow.

But her is another one for you:

Acts 1:6-8
King James Version

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.


this would have been the absolute perfect time for Jesus to speak plainly saying the kingdom for Israel is gone. Instead He tells His disciples that it was not for them to know when the Father will do it! Instead you will be filled and do something totally different!

Nothing here even intimates Jesus revoked the kingdom for all time! Especially given Isaiah and Ezekiel 37. Did you notice how many times god said He will do something in Ezekiel 37? I don't know about you , but when God says He will do something- He'll do it!

Verse 17 - Here Jesus is telling them how the New Covenant "church" brethren were to resolve differences.

adding the terms new covenant at your whim doesn't make it so, nor does it speak well of you.

Now as I posted previously, this also indicates just how many of those from the House of Judea and the House of Israel became the seed of what became the "Christian Church"; God's people, composed of both Jews and Gentiles as in Ephesians 2.

Yes at first the church was composed entirely of Jews and thus became the seed for all nations, but that doesn't equate biblically to the church now being the recipient of the New Covenant God made to Israel. That is y90u reading it into the force without a specific warrant form the Word. Nowhere does it imply that Gods Covenant to the Israeli people was revoked and mystically moved to the church. Not one verse excpet if one reinterprets Gods Word to make it mean other than what is written.

To say that the Jews did not have the privilege of being the first to believe in the NC is an outright lie as the following verses indicate....and I did not even post those Jews and Gentiles that Paul brought to Christ ---- all being taught the New Covenant for them at the time.

Its a lie for you but not the bible! You steal the covenant from Israel, take all the promises to Israel, spiritualize them , reinterpret them and give them to teh church and then lambast anyone who doesn't agree with your RCCborn reinterpretation of the bible.

Israel had the privilege of the first to enter the church! NO where in Gods Word do you see New covenant church! or new covenant body etc.

but let me ask you a question. Now that you have spiritualized a promise God made specifically to the people of Judah and Israel and made it apply the church- what do the house of Judah and house of Israel now suppose to mean and how do you know???

Also why should I believe your reinterpretation of the promises as opposed to the dozen or so other reinterpretations I have read form followers of Christ? What makes yours authoritative and theirs not? what authority do you show to declare that the church is the new Israel?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

To say that the Jews did not have the privilege of being the first to believe in the NC is an outright lie as the following verses indicate....and I did not even post those Jews and Gentiles that Paul brought to Christ ---- all being taught the New Covenant for them at the time.

Act 2:41 - So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
Act 2:47 - "...And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.
Act 4:4 - But many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to about five thousand.
Act 5:14 - And more than ever believers were added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women,
Act 6:7 - And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were obedient to the faith.
Act 8:6 - And the multitudes with one accord gave heed to what was said by Philip,...

but the covenant God made with all the people of Israel does not even imply they get first dibs!

And "multiplied Greatly, 3,000 men, 5,000 etc.etc., do not fulfill the promise:
Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Verse 34: FOR THEY SHALL ALL(REPEAT:ALL) KNOW ME. Whi is the all, the house of Israel and the house of Judah from teh least to teh greatest. I don't see where all means some, unless of course God showed you in a secret meeting.

 

[Moriah's Song]

what do the house of Judah and house of Israel now suppose to mean

(Note: Edited for brevity) I told you all of this before...."In Peter's sermon, the first words to the Jewish crowd in Acts 2:14 & 22 were....

...But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words.
..."Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs which God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know--​

The prophecies of bringing the two houses together was fulfilled. As above, many of the House of Judea and the House of Israel became the seed of the "Christian Church". The Jews did have the privilege of being the first to believe in the NC as the following verses indicate as you can see...Act 2:41, 4:4, 5:14, 6:7, 8:6

- So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
- But many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to about five thousand.
- And more than ever believers were added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women,
- And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were obedient to the faith.
- And the multitudes with one accord gave heed to what was said by Philip,...​

Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon - adjective new

a. Exod 1:8 (E) a new king; Jer 31:31; ; a new spirit Jer 26:10 new gate of (house of) י׳, compare Jer 36:10​

STRONGS H1285: noun - feminine - covenant

k. the prophetic covenant, a divine promise through a series of prophets to establish a new constitution, Jer 31:31, with new institutions and precepts ; Jer 31:31, 33; Jer 32:40; Jer 50:5; . .​

1. covenant making: Isa 55:3; Isa 61:8; Jer 31:31, 32, 33; Jer 32:40; Jer 34:13; Eze 34:25; ;​

45 version use the words "NC" as in Jeremiah's prophecy

Jer 31:31 - "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,​

Jeremiah's prophesy fulfilled- Not will be!

Luk 22:20 - And likewise the cup after supper, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood. ​

In Jeremiah 31:31 God says "I will" - a future term of a promise that God MUST fulfill.
"IS" is a present term; not a "future" term and cannot be re-interpreted. And that HE DID IN LUK 22:20!!

The NC promised in Jer 31:31-34 is fulfilled in Christ by his blood and death on the cross.

**************************************************************************************​

Those tribal leaders of both the "House of Israel" and the "House of Judah" were present on the Day of Pentecost when God fulfulled his "promise" to bring them together and you KNOW they were there. Again...

In Peter's Pentecostal sermon he speaks directly to Jews that had come together-

Act 2:14...But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words."​

Then Peter addresses the House of Israel -

Act 2:22..."Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs which God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know--​

That verse indicates that the "two sticks" prophecy and Jeremiah was fulfilled on Pentecost. This also indicates just how many of those from the House of Judea and the House of Israel became the seed of what became the "Christian Church"; To say that the Jews did not have the privilege of being the first to believe in the NC is an outright lie as the following verses indicates.

Act 2:41 - So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about 3,000 souls.
Act 2:47 - "...And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.
Act 4:4 - But many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to about 5,000.
Act 5:14 - And more than ever believers were added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women,
Act 6:7 - And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were obedient to the faith.
Act 8:6 - And the multitudes with one accord gave heed to what was said by Philip,...​

**********************************************************************************************​

Do you still continue to deny scripture proof of Jeremiah's 31 prophecy and Ezekiel's 2 sticks prophecy along with undeniable supporting lexicons and Vine's Dictionary in regards to "naos" and "hieron?"​

1. HIERON, sacred, is used as a noun denoting a sacred place, a temple, ...signifying the entire building with it precints, or some part therof, as distinct from the "naos.".....Hieron is never used figuratively. Christ taught in the courts - the "hieron" area.
2. NAOS, a shrine or sanctuary, was used among the Jews, the sanctuary in the Temple, into which only the priests could lawfully enter...​

 

[theefaith]

What does a mediator do?

he is not a negotiator but a mediator

 

[theefaith]

Absolutely wrong.

The new covenant is with the HOUSE of Israel.

Salvation came to gentiles to make Israel jealous.

Believers who are gentiles are grafted into the new covenant with the house of Israel.

It’s mediated by the Jewish Messiah, Y'eshua

He will reign in Jerusalem on David’s throne, forever, as prophesied in both the old and new testaments.

Gentiles and jews who are the redeemed, will be in the kingdom with Jesus.

All men are redeemed!
Christ redeemed the whole world
Jn 1:29