Christians are not under the New Covenant

[Moriah's Song]

your verses refer to the new covenant church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles

The "universal church of Christ" actually began in the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve tried to cover up their "sins" by sewing fig leaves together. But knew what they had done and therefore..."the LORD God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins, and clothed them." (Gen 3:21)

Verse 21 implies that the shedding of blood already had to be the only acceptable method of forgiveness that was acceptable to Him.

Next, we read again the same principle as with Cain and Abel. "

Gen 4:2-5..."Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, and Cain a tiller of the ground. In the course of time Cain brought to the LORD an offering of the fruit of the ground, and Abel brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and his offering, but for Cain and his offering he had no regard. So Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell."​

In the above case with Cain and Abel we can see where now God wants the sacrifice of a human for atonement for their sins instead of an animal....A picture of the cross! We try to cover up our sins but we can't. Only through the blood of Christ can sins be forgiven. Cain's offerings were what we call "works" because Cain decided what to provide for his own sins instead of what God desired for atonement - Christ's human blood!

Then the story progresses to where God selects Abraham out of a Gentile nation (Ur of the Chaldees) and says to him...

And he brought him outside and said, "Look toward heaven, and number the stars, if you are able to number them. "Then he said to him, "So shall your descendants be." (Gen 15:5)​

If you think about it, God is already including Gentiles in the nation that He has yet to build up with the Jews. Why? Because it is impossible to number the stars in the heavens. Those stars represent both Jews and Gentiles in the "universal church of Christ." (Ephesians 2)

You will find words in the OT that indicate that Gentiles who wished to become believers in the one-and-only true God could join that Jewish congregation in the wilderness right up through and to the day Christ died on the cross.

It's that "Tree of Life" that was in the Garden of Eden never stopped growing that composed of both Jews and Gentiles and it will continue that way until the end of this age - The Last Day - Judgement Day!

 

[theefaith]

The "universal church of Christ" actually began in the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve tried to cover up their "sins" by sewing fig leaves together. But knew what they had done and therefore..."the LORD God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins, and clothed them." (Gen 3:21)

Verse 21 implies that the shedding of blood already had to be the only acceptable method of forgiveness that was acceptable to Him.

Next, we read again the same principle as with Cain and Abel. "

Gen 4:2-5..."Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, and Cain a tiller of the ground. In the course of time Cain brought to the LORD an offering of the fruit of the ground, and Abel brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and his offering, but for Cain and his offering he had no regard. So Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell."​

In the above case with Cain and Abel we can see where now God wants the sacrifice of a human for atonement for their sins instead of an animal....A picture of the cross! We try to cover up our sins but we can't. Only through the blood of Christ can sins be forgiven. Cain's offerings were what we call "works" because Cain decided what to provide for his own sins instead of what God desired for atonement - Christ's human blood!

Then the story progresses to where God selects Abraham out of a Gentile nation (Ur of the Chaldees) and says to him...

And he brought him outside and said, "Look toward heaven, and number the stars, if you are able to number them. "Then he said to him, "So shall your descendants be." (Gen 15:5)​

If you think about it, God is already including Gentiles in the nation that He has yet to build up with the Jews. Why? Because it is impossible to number the stars in the heavens. Those stars represent both Jews and Gentiles in the "universal church of Christ." (Ephesians 2)

You will find words in the OT that indicate that Gentiles who wished to become believers in the one-and-only true God could join that Jewish congregation in the wilderness right up through and to the day Christ died on the cross.

It's that "Tree of Life" that was in the Garden of Eden never stopped growing that composed of both Jews and Gentiles and it will continue that way until the end of this age - The Last Day - Judgement Day!

notice the cross is a door post and lentil!
Jn 1:29 lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world!

The Supreme Authority Founded by Christ

The nature of this supreme authority, which all Christians are bound to obey, can be ascertained only by finding out what was the evident and positive will of Christ. Certainly Christ is a King for ever; and though invisible, He continues unto the end of time to govern and guard His church from Heaven. But since He willed that His kingdom should be visible He was obliged, when He ascended into Heaven, to designate a vice-gerent on earth. "Should anyone say that Christ is the one head and the one shepherd, the one spouse of the one Church, he does not give an adequate reply. It is clear, indeed, that Christ is the author of grace in the Sacraments of the Church; it is Christ Himself who baptizes; it is He who forgives sins; it is He who is the true priest who bath offered Himself upon the altar of the cross, and it is by His power that His body is daily consecrated upon the altar; and still, because He was not to be visibly present to all the faithful, He made choice of ministers through whom the aforesaid Sacraments should be dispensed to the faithful as said above" “For the same reason, therefore, because He was about to withdraw His visible presence from the Church, it was necessary that He should appoint someone in His place, to have the charge of the Universal Church. Hence before His Ascension He said to Peter: 'Feed my sheep' " (St. Thomas, Contra Gentiles, lib. iv., cap. 76).

Jesus Christ, therefore, appointed Peter to be that head of the Church; and He also determined that the authority instituted in perpetuity for the salvation of all should be inherited by His successors, in whom the same permanent authority of Peter himself should continue. And so He made that remarkable promise to Peter and to no one else: "Thou are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church" (Matt. xvi., 18). "To Peter the Lord spoke: to one, therefore, that He might establish unity upon one" (S. Pacianus ad Sempronium, Ep. iii., n. 11). "Without any prelude He mentions St. Peter's name and that of his father (Blessed art thou Simon, son of John) and He does not wish Him to be called any more Simon; claiming him for Himself according to His divine authority He aptly names him Peter, from petra the rock, since upon him He was about to found His Church" (S. Cyrillus Alexandrinus, In Evang. Joan., lib. ii., in cap. i., v. 42).

 

[Truther]

temporarily? Really?

Matt 23:
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

scripture says the Jews are the ones who crucified him

Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Acts 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;

15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

Yep, temporarily cut off.

I dare you to say Israel was permanently banished here...

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled....

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

[Moriah's Song]

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

The reason you can't understand verse 25 is because of the term "ISRAEL." Look it up in your Bible; Israel was always "a people" - not a political nation. Those true Israelites/Jews were the OT remnant until the Day of Pentecost when God opened the door for the Gentiles even wider than it previously was in the OT. In Ephesians 2 to you can clearly see that after Pentecost, the "church of Christ" is now composed of both Jews and Gentiles which make up the "true Israel." All born-again Christians are actually the "true Israel" today.

We don't know just when God will determine that the "fullness of the Gentiles" are complete. Abraham saw the universal church of the OT and the NT as "many as the stars of heaven."

 

[Truther]

What’s your question

Israel(Jerusalem) is the woman chased by the dragon in Rev.

 

[Truther]

The reason you can't understand verse 25 is because of the term "ISRAEL." Look it up in your Bible; Israel was always "a people" - not a political nation. Those true Israelites/Jews were the OT remnant until the Day of Pentecost when God opened the door for the Gentiles even wider than it previously was in the OT. In Ephesians 2 to you can clearly see that after Pentecost, the "church of Christ" is now composed of both Jews and Gentiles which make up the "true Israel." All born-again Christians are actually the "true Israel" today.

We don't know just when God will determine that the "fullness of the Gentiles" are complete. Abraham saw the universal church of the OT and the NT as "many as the stars of heaven."

Is the church who the "until" is speaking of?

A temporarily blind church or national Israel?

The church is the "beloved for the fathers sake" enemy of itself?

 

[Truther]

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.


Who is they?

Who is your?

 

[Moriah's Song]

Israel(Jerusalem) is the woman chased by the dragon in Rev.

But "the woman" has always been "the bride/the church."

 

[Moriah's Song]

Is the church who the "until" is speaking of?

Yes! It is the OT "church in the wilderness" in addition to the Act 2 pentecost that opened the door wide for all people, Jew and Gentile would continue as the "universal Christian church" ----- the true "people of God."

God had a plan that started in the Garden of Eden and it did not stop growing and will not stop growing; comprises of both Jews and Gentiles until the full number of the "church of God" is full - the true Israel....the true vine.

 

[Truther]

But "the woman" has always been "the bride/the church."

No, it has not.

Israel of old was referred to as a harlot, not a gigolo.

 

[Truther]

Yes! It is the OT "church in the wilderness" in addition to the Act 2 pentecost that opened the door wide for all people, Jew and Gentile would continue as the "universal Christian church" ----- the true "people of God."

God had a plan that started in the Garden of Eden and it did not stop growing and will not stop growing; comprises of both Jews and Gentiles until the full number of the "church of God" is full - the true Israel....the true vine.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

We are the beloved of the fathers enemies of ourselves?

We are the blind, they?

Go get some coffee, your delirious.

 

[Moriah's Song]

No, it has not.

Israel of old was referred to as a harlot, not a gigolo.

That would be a reference that can be said of the Pharisees and the Saducees at the time of Christ. They would be those that Jesus condemend but his remnant always existed and was the "church in the wilderness." Look up that term and you will find it there. I am not making the term up. It is in scripture.

 

[theefaith]

Yep, temporarily cut off.

I dare you to say Israel was permanently banished here...

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled....

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

second coming

the new covenant replaced the old
Christ replaced David as king
The church replaced Israel

 

[Jim B]

No, it has not.

Israel of old was referred to as a harlot, not a gigolo.

A gigolo is a male.

 

[Jim B]

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

We are the beloved of the fathers enemies of ourselves?

We are the blind, they?

Go get some coffee, your delirious.

Go get some coffee, you are delirious. Your grammar is poor.

 

[Moriah's Song]

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

You left out a couple of important verses....

Rom 11:25,26
Lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to understand this mystery, brethren: a hardening has come upon part of Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles come in, and so all Israel will be saved; as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob";
​

P.S. I'll take my Starbucks coffee with cream but no sugar please!

 

[theefaith]

Israel(Jerusalem) is the woman chased by the dragon in Rev.

Israel and the dragon crucified Christ!

when did Israel or her offspring every keep the commandments or have the testimony of Christ

mary is satans adversary Gen 3:15 enmity total war
Rev 12 war between the dragon and Mary

Let us take our helper (advocate) and intercessor the Virgin Mary, Mother of God, so that she, who from the moment of her conception overcame Satan may show her power over these evil sects, in which is revived the contumacious spirit of the demon, together with his unsubdued perfidy and deceit. Let us beseech Michael, the prince of the heavenly angels, who drove out the infernal foe; and Joseph, the spouse of the most holy Virgin, and heavenly patron of the Catholic Church; and the great Apostles, Peter and Paul, the fathers and victorious champions of the Christian faith. By their patronage, and by perseverance in united prayer, we hope that God will mercifully and opportunely succor the human race, which is encompassed by so many dangers.

Gen 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.

Lk 1: 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of grace!

It only by the power of the Holy Spirit thru the immaculate purity of Mary that the virgin-mother brings forth the Holy son of God!

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

 

[Moriah's Song]

mary is satans adversary Gen 3:15 enmity total war

Mary is not satans adversary. Mary is dead. The "universal Christian church" is satans adversary.

 

[theefaith]

Mary is not satans adversary. Mary is dead. The "universal Christian church" is satans adversary.

both it says war with her offspring
Rev 12:17

And she is not dead

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

 

[Moriah's Song]

And she is not dead

Well she is not Enoch or Elijah so therefore she is dead. John was the last of the apostles, if Mary had been translated into heaven I kinda think John would have noticed she was suddenly absent.