Christ's sinless Head with a sinful body?

[Peterlag]

The reason we know they were lying, is the same here. The question asked is not answered by knowledge, but is one of faith.

Jesus asked them what they believed about the baptism of John, and I ask if you believe you are forgiven of all your past, present, and future sinning. It's not a question about knowledge of the Bible.

Now, if you don't even 'know' what you believe, then why are you arguing about something, that you also claim to be ignorant of? Especially as some so called 'expert'.

You've just shown that you're not someone to have an honest argument with in these matters. It's not so rare among certain Christians who believe it is impossible to cease sinning on earth, and walk with Jesus the way He walked as a man.

In literature it's called attacking a straw man when people do what you do. Put out a false statement and accuse me of it and then build your story on that. I don't know if people still sin and I don't care. I know Christians do not sin in him and it's the in him that I'm an expert in.

 

[Ghada]

Matthew 21:24-27 LITV
24) And answering, Jesus said to them, I also will ask you one thing, which if you tell Me, I also will tell you by what authority I do these things.
25) The baptism of John, from where was it? From Heaven, or from men? And they reasoned among themselves, saying, If we shall say, From Heaven, He will say to us, Why then did you not believe him?
26) But if we should say, From men, we fear the people. For all hold John to be a prophet.
27) And answering Jesus, they said, We do not know. And He said to them, Neither do I tell you by what authority I do these things.

Actually, Jesus merely asked them where it was from. You are inserting "believed" where it does not appear in the text. Now, the answer may come from their beliefs, but that's not what Jesus asked.

I find this kind of lack of attention to Scripture is responsible for much error.

Much love!

I find a pretense of detail pompous.

With men, where Jesus and the Bible itself comes from is a matter of faith, whether from heaven or from men.

 

[marks]

I find a pretense of detail pompous.

It's up to you how you go about reading the Bible. But I'm seeing the results.

Much love!

 

[Ghada]

I don't know if people still sin and I don't care. I know Christians do not sin in him and it's the in him that I'm an expert in.

You mean Christians are not counted as sinning, like other people doing the same things.

Some Christians so despise the law of Christ, that they say the only only Christians counted as sinning, are those doing His law.

 

[marks]

With men, where Jesus and the Bible itself comes from is a matter of faith, whether from heaven or from men.

I suppose many people think that way, however, there happens to be objective proof.

Isaiah 41:21-24 KJV
21) Produce your cause, saith the LORD; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob.
22) Let them bring them forth, and shew us what shall happen: let them shew the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come.
23) Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together.
24) Behold, ye are of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination is he that chooseth you.

Isaiah 44:6-8 KJV
6) Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
7) And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.
8) Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isaiah 45:20-21 KJV
20) Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.
21) Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Isaiah 46:9-10 KJV
9) Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
10) Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Only the true God can tell the end from the beginning. And that's what we find in the Bible, accurate foretelling of future events. This means that the Author is outside this time/space continuum. It's not just on faith, we have evidence. Proof.

Much love!

 

[marks]

In literature it's called attacking a straw man when people do what you do. Put out a false statement and accuse me of it and then build your story on that. I don't know if people still sin and I don't care. I know Christians do not sin in him and it's the in him that I'm an expert in.

The Straw Man fallacy is actually a dishonesty. It's lying about someone.

Much love!

 

[Ghada]

Interesting thing for you to say. That's why I don't normally post to you. I don't find you to be an honest person, or knowledgeable of the Scriptures. And that's a bad combo!

Much love!

So, that's why you follow me around.

I always take it as a compliment, when Christian sinners don't like my preaching righteousness at all times.

It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

The problem is that Christians teaching justification for their sinning, have a conscience that relies entirely upon their doctrine excusing them, while still sinning. And so, when their doctrine is exposed by the Bible, they have nothing to protect their conscience against condemnation for their sinning. They therefore, like Cain, take it as a personal attack against their soul. It's the natural result of only being saved and justified by their own faith and doctrine alone. Doctrinally separating their deeds from their salvation requires separating their doctrine from the Bible.

My conscience is with what I do, not what I think about myself. I don't care about someone disagreeing with my doctrine, but only if someone can correct it or not.

The uncorrectable Christian sinners are not so. Refusal to be corrected is part of their unrepentance.

 

[Ghada]

I suppose many people think that way, however, there happens to be objective proof.

Isaiah 41:21-24 KJV
21) Produce your cause, saith the LORD; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob.
22) Let them bring them forth, and shew us what shall happen: let them shew the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come.
23) Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together.
24) Behold, ye are of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination is he that chooseth you.

Isaiah 44:6-8 KJV
6) Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
7) And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.
8) Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isaiah 45:20-21 KJV
20) Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.
21) Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Isaiah 46:9-10 KJV
9) Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
10) Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Only the true God can tell the end from the beginning. And that's what we find in the Bible, accurate foretelling of future events. This means that the Author is outside this time/space continuum. It's not just on faith, we have evidence. Proof.

Much love!

As usual, you change the argument around into something else, rather than be corrected. At least you're consistent, if not tiresome. No doubt this is why you troll around to practice your low art.

In any case, if your faith depends on what you see as evidence, then your faith is not from the heart, but in your mind only. (Even as your righteousness by faith alone)

Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

For we walk by faith, not by sight:

Your faith will also be quickly manipulated by what you see.

And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast;

 

[marks]

So, that's why you follow me around.

Um . . . I don't actually. But I do occassionally read your posts.

I compare what you say with what you do, and mostly just leave you to it. You claim sinlessness, and you are dishonest. So there ya go!

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. I just happen to pay more attention to what a person does than what they say about themself.

Much love!

 

[marks]

As usual, you change the argument around into something else,

With men, where Jesus and the Bible itself comes from is a matter of faith, whether from heaven or from men.

Much love!

 

[Peterlag]

You mean Christians are not counted as sinning, like other people doing the same things.

Some Christians so despise the law of Christ, that they say the only only Christians counted as sinning, are those doing His law.

No that's not what I mean. I mean Christians don't sin "in Christ"

 

[Peterlag]

We undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ. The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual.

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ. The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real. So what happens to the old self that was in Adam? The old self is entirely obliterated once the spirit of Christ enters the Christian.

 

[Ghada]

You claim sinlessness, and you are dishonest.

Your dishonesty in what others say, as well as offhand accusations is your M.O. And on this point, I've given you enough chances to repent.

I just happen to pay more attention to what a person does than what they say about themself.

I don't care what people say about themselves, nor what they do in life. All I need is believe the doctrine they preach. I am quite sure you are still a sinner, even as you minister sinning to all people.

 

[marks]

Your dishonesty in what others say, as well as offhand accusations is your M.O. And on this point, I've given you enough chances to repent.

I don't care what people say about themselves, nor what they do in life. All I need is believe the doctrine they preach. I am quite sure you are still a sinner, even as you minister sinning to all people.

You've been dishonest with me, and with others, which has been shown you specifically. And now you choose to malign me, and yet you still claim sinlessness. Vanity.

Much love!

 

[Ghada]

We undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ. The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual.

Sounds good to me. No sinful members of the body and sinless Head of Christ.

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ.

No such thing as inward spiritual sanctification without outward sanctification of life.

For them that repent of dead works, God gives His faith to the cleansed heart with instant conversion inwardly and outwardly. No doing dead works, but only the will of God with the pure Spirit of Christ.

The problem with Christian sinners trying to preach the conversion and sanctification of Jesus Christ, is that they always veer off into that of another christ, who accepts them with their continued sinning. That christ doesn't care how much or little ungodliness continues, so long as it continues in life.

The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real.

Only in another gospel of spiritual error.

Having a seared conscience toward the conviction of the Holy Ghost, must come with anyone believing all their sins past, present, and future are already forgiven. The convicting Spirit of grace is despised and must become unto them the devil's work, in order to keep their 'faith'.

There are no trespassing members of the body of the true Christ, but only the common commandment of God to all trespassers to repent, that they may enter with a whole new heart and life by His faith.

So what happens to the old self that was in Adam? The old self is entirely obliterated once the spirit of Christ enters the Christian.

Not without the past living. Continued dead works are the result of continued inward lust. So long as the old living man remains alive with dead works, then the old spiritual man remains alive and dead to Jesus Christ.

Once any person repents of their sins and trespasses, then all the old past inward lusting and outward sinning of life is instantly washed completely away, so that all things of spirit, soul, and life are now new and all of God.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God,

No man trespassing in dead works is any of God, but of another spirit and christ entirely. No matter how inwardly pure they say they are, by their own faith alone.

Such is the way of an adulterous woman; she eateth, and wipeth her mouth, and saith, I have done no wickedness.

 

[Ghada]

You've been dishonest with me, and with others, which has been shown you specifically. And now you choose to malign me, and yet you still claim sinlessness. Vanity.

Much love!

If you call preaching doing righteousness at all times in Christ Jesus, dishonesty, then I am indeed guilty as charged.

And I've always agreed with your confession and doctrine of being a continued sinner and doer of unrighteousness. How is that possibly maligning someone, by believing and agreeing with their own words about themselves?

If I preach against your sinful Christianity, I'm called dishonest. If I agree your Christianity is sinful, I'm charged of maligning.

For if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

The only dishonesty I'm accused of is disagreeing with your ministry of sinning, while agreeing with your continued sinful living. That's not dishonesty nor duplicity, but simply rebuking another gospel, while accepting another's confession.

The main dishonesty I continually witness from Christians teaching continued sinning, such as yourself, is a purpose misstatement of what preachers of righteousness teach. We teach not sinning and being sinful in the body of Christ, and you say we teach being sinless in life.

We have never said any man in life was nor is sinless, since all have sinned. But only in repenting os sinning and now being without sin in Christ Jesus.

There is no sinning sinful member of the body of Jesus Christ the sinless One. The sinful body is of unclean Christian religion is of another christ and head entirely.

 

[GracePeace]

You've been dishonest with me, and with others, which has been shown you specifically. And now you choose to malign me, and yet you still claim sinlessness. Vanity.

Much love!

I actually agree with Ghada's central point ("don't be deceived and don't claim to be part of Christ if you're living in sin"), but I do think the way they're going about it is kind of sad and self defeating. The tone just seems wrong. Fault finding. I remember when we disagreed you were truthful and kind. I don't think it's right for Ghada to take the tone they're taking. Idk why but it seems excessive.

 

[marks]

If you call preaching doing righteousness at all times in Christ Jesus, dishonesty, then I am indeed guilty as charged.

What I'm calling dishonesty is attributing to others things they did not say. You seem to do this a lot, and it's dishonest, lying about others, while claiming to be righteous, which is hypocrisy.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I actually agree with Ghada's central point ("don't be deceived and don't claim to be part of Christ if you're living in sin"), but I do think the way they're going about it is kind of sad and self defeating.

If someone isn't a new person, there's no reason to think they are born again, is there? But this nonsense of, "I'm sinless and you preach sin" is absurd! I seldom see a person contradict their words by their actions so consistently.

Much love!

 

[GracePeace]

If someone isn't a new person, there's no reason to think they are born again, is there? But this nonsense of, "I'm sinless and you preach sin" is absurd! I seldom see a person contradict their words by their actions so consistently.

Much love!

I think Ghada may be being distracted by this rabbit, and is wasting their time chasing it, when they could be doing something more personally constructive.

I do "get" the complaint, though: lots of people claim their inner person doesn't sin when they sin, it's their outward person, but their inward person is united to Christ, so they don't actually sin (and other variations of this error). They don't emphasize righteousness. I think Ghada wants to help people not be deceived, but the tone is off.