Christ's sinless Head with a sinful body?

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Ghada

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True. Abiding in Christ is necessary to have eternal life now on earth, and in the resurrection of the dead.

The reward of inheritance is for abiding in Christ. Being saved is not a reward for past works, but inheriting the kingdom forever certainly is the reward for living righteous and holy in Christ Jesus unto the end.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Unrepented sinners just don't want to believe that Jesus is come in the flesh, so that our works will not be judged unworthy of God in the end.

All men that sin are judged by their works unto shame and condemnation. Only those repenting of sinning and walking with Jesus from a purified heart from lust, will be judged by their works worthy to walk with Him in white in this life and forever to come.

But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead...

That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
 

GracePeace

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True. Abiding in Christ is necessary to have eternal life now on earth, and in the resurrection of the dead.

The reward of inheritance is for abiding in Christ. Being saved is not a reward for past works, but inheriting the kingdom forever certainly is the reward for living righteous and holy in Christ Jesus unto the end.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Unrepented sinners just don't want to believe that Jesus is come in the flesh, so that our works will not be judged unworthy of God in the end.

All men that sin are judged by their works unto shame and condemnation. Only those repenting of sinning and walking with Jesus from a purified heart from lust, will be judged by their works worthy to walk with Him in white in this life and forever to come.

But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead...

That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
That was a link to the place in the thread where he ran away from Romans 11.
 

Peterlag

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I don't send people off to read elsewhere. We deal with each other one on one:

What do you mean by 'running' to God to repent and confess sinning?

Do you preach being preforgiven of all present and future sinning?
If you will not read what I believe that is written elsewhere then I will post it here. I don't understand the difference as to where you read what I believe. Here or somewhere else.

The Greek word hamartano, for "sin" is translated into English as "sin" which means to miss, failure, aberration from prescribed law or duty. Thus, considered not as an action, [as the Catholics taught us, who are the ones who defined the definition for us 1600 years ago] but as the quality of action, the evil principle from the actual transgression. If a canal by which water flows down to a place is considered pure. And then an influence comes into the water that has the idea of muddying the water. Then it's the defiling influence, the disturbance that has flowed upon the creation of God.

There is no mud in what God created in Christ Jesus that was placed inside of our new nature. None. Thus, it's impossible for me to bring this mud forward when I'm in Christ. We see this with statements like "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law." Well, I'm not under the law right now. Or "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not." I'm born of God right now. Or "being made free from sin, and become servants to God." I'm a servant to God right now.

We read in the book of Matthew that Jesus shall save his people from their sins. The problem I have had with this begins in Romans where it states we don't have sin anymore and yet everyone seems to agree that we all fall short. Today I woke with an idea of starting at the beginning which is where any good building starts when we need to have a solid foundation. So let's consider Adam and Eve who were created to have the spirit of God. A dog was created to function without the spirit of God and so dogs are normal in the way they function. But humans are missing something and therefore not complete if we do not function with the spirit of God. It would be considered broken if it were a car that was missing a part because it would be incomplete since it would be missing a necessary part. It had to be the spirit that Adam and Eve gave up that caused them to be broken, to have missed the mark, and to deliberately do such a thing was considered sin. Well, we know it was not an apple.

If I'm correct on how I'm looking at this then it makes sense that blasphemy against God would be an unforgivable sin because to do so would be to keep ourselves broken and therefore unable to have the spirit of life. The book of Matthew states Jesus had the ability to forgive sins. In the book of John, we see "the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." We will continue to stay broken if we refuse the spirit and this is why Jesus told them they will die in their sins because they cannot go where he is going to go. The Lord said "If you were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth." In other words, if we did not know we were broken. Then we did not know we were missing a part and so it's not our fault. But if we say yeah, we know we are not broken. Then there lies the acknowledged sin.

This reminds me of 1 John where it is written if we acknowledge or confess our sin is one thing. But we lie if we say we don't have any sin. It seems to be the same concept in both John and 1 John. I'm just looking at the way sin is used in the gospels and in doing so it seems clear that Jesus had the ability to forgive sin. We still have sin if we don't get this forgiveness from him and that's what is being said in the book of Matthew and John. And if we don't know we have sin because we are challenged to the degree of being impaired, disabled or blind to it in some way is how we would be exempt from it. Understand?

The New Testament epistles have words like "remission of sins" and "sins may be blotted out" and "the forgiveness of sins" and "wash away thy sins" and "whose sins are covered" and "impute sin" and "are dead to sin" and "condemned sin in the flesh" and "take away their sins" and "Christ died for our sins" and "purged our sins..." The book of Romans begins talking about Jews and Gentiles being both under sin and this should not be anything new to us since both are still broken without the spirit of God. And yet for some mysterious reason I live on a planet where many Christians think their flesh is justified by the deeds of the law even after the book of Romans tells us plainly that everyone except the Christian is under sin (Romans 3:20 says Jews and Gentiles).

Romans tell us "sin is not imputed when there is no law" and "that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." And then there's verse 7 with "For he that is dead is freed from sin." I never understood Romans 6 because I was taught that I was a sinner saved by grace. Let's look at what Romans is saying: Christ died unto sin once and now he lives unto God. How are we who are still alive going to be able to likewise reckon ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God? It seems to me it must be done through Jesus Christ our Lord. It's not about us or our broken selves. It's him we must function in. Here's the verse "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."

It appears both Catholic and Protestant churches do not teach that "sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Nor do they teach "For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness." And so "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." I'm going to skip over Romans 7 because it tells us right up at the top of the chapter that Paul is talking to them who are into or know the law. And then by the context of the whole chapter is how we can see it's all about human's and how they toy with their flesh.

What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. Romans 8 states "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin..."

The verse in 2 Corinthians 5:21, is talking about the "righteousness of God in him." It's the "in him" that nobody seems to be able to understand. This whole thing functions "in him." It's in Christ and therefore in the new nature that is mentioned just a few verses above this in verse 17 where it says "new creature:" It's not that we do not sin in our old man nature. It's that we do not sin in the new man that we are told to put on. The churches have destroyed this idea by teaching we put on the new man by following the teachings of Jesus as we walk in our flesh. So this is a lost art.

In the book of Colossians, we read "putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" We did not put it off. It was the circumcision of Christ. Two verses later we read "together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;..." Again, it's "in him" or "with him." I also want to get the book of Hebrews in here where we see Christ offered himself once "for this he did once" and not like the high priest who offered up the sacrifice daily. The Lord Christ "after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;..."

Peter has the same mindset as Paul when he writes in 1 Peter "that we, being dead to sins,..." Peter goes on to say that Christ suffered once for sins so as to bring us to God, and so this is why the Scripture reads "being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:" Again, the old man crucified and the new man put in its place. Peter again, "ceased from sin;..." Put that mindset on or as Peter writes "arm yourself likewise with the same mind:" Because he that has suffered in the flesh or was crucified in the flesh has put on the new man because the other one is dead. That new person "hath ceased from sin;..."

The last verse I'm going to mention has "in him" again. From 1 John we read "that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin." We cannot sin in him because there's no sin in him and this is why "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
 
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Ghada

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If you will not read what I believe that is written elsewhere then I will post it here. I don't understand the difference as to where you read what I believe. Here or somewhere else.
The difference of course, is between answering a simple question with straightforward honesty, and not answering the question amidst a smokescreen of many words. The hope is to draw someone into a bunch of unrelated arguments, so that the original question is forgotten. I've learned not to indulge such obvious dishonesty, and insult to my intelligence.



The Greek word hamartano, for "sin" is translated into English as "sin" which means to miss, failure, aberration from prescribed law or duty. Thus, considered not as an action, [as the Catholics taught us, who are the ones who defined the definition for us 1600 years ago] but as the quality of action, the evil principle from the actual transgression. If a canal by which water flows down to a place is considered pure. And then an influence comes into the water that has the idea of muddying the water. Then it's the defiling influence, the disturbance that has flowed upon the creation of God.
And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

The first sign of a nonanswer and changing the Bible from plain English, is 'going to the Greek'.

I'll just conclude your 'running to God' to be forgiven of present sinning, is the same I've heard from others. It mocks confession with godly sorrow as 'unbelief', by them who convince themselves, that all their present and future sins are already forgiven.

That's a doctrine for presumptive sinning. It sears the conscience to the conviction of the Spirit. If not repented of, it can conclude in apostacy of reprobation, where God ceases to be mocked and does not deal with the hardened heart any long. John calls it sinning unto death.

Such a doctrine only leads to continued ungodliness, while despising the Spirit of grace. It's a form of blasphemy of the Holy Ghost, where they say the convicting Spirit of grace, is actually a spirit of error and 'unbelief'.

It's usually accompanied with the claim that the law of God is done away with, so that there is 'no trasngression' when transgressing it, and 'no condemnation' when sinning against God.

And as usual, I see you make no difference between the past law of Moses for the OT saints, and the present law of Christ for His NT saints.

And so, once again, we see so many many words just to avoid answering a simple question.

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

At least the Pharisees didn't try to weary Jesus' mind and patience, but just said, "We cannot tell". Or rather "we won't tell".

I reject the Christian religion for unrepentant transgressors, who convince themselves their unrighteous deeds are exempted from God's righteous judgment of all men's works.

But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
 
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Ghada

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only the spiritual can understand.
Yes, that's a favorite. Their intellectualism is their spiritualism.

I don't want their spirit at all messing with my mind. Including most of all the insult of intelligence by overblown pseudo-scholarship.

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

If someone doesn't answer a simple question honestly, then it's proof of dishonesty. Especially when they start off the the 'Greek'. I mean, they could at least say yes or no, and then go into their long winded spiel.

For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.

For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
 
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GracePeace

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Yes, that's a favorite. Their intellectualism is their spiritualism.

I don't want their spirit at all messing with my mind. Including most of all the insult of intelligence by overblown pseudo-scholarship.

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

If someone doesn't answer a simple question honestly, then it's proof of dishonesty. Especially when they start off the the 'Greek'. I mean, they could at least say yes or no, and then go into their long winded spiel.

For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.

For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
The guy actually publicly brags he is an "expert" (first sign of fraud), then, when challenged, is either incapable of answering (of course this is obviously the case) or refuses to answer.

He and all others like him are hopeless liars. They can't defend their lies, so they end up calling you names--eg, "Only the spiritual can understand, so, if you don't agree with me, it shows that you're unspiritual".

So, if the words make no sense, in and of themselves, then stop making arguments from the words! They say the words magically make sense when interpreted by a "spiritual" mind--they don't make sense until then (of course, Jesus was able shut His enemies' mouths by use of Words--didn't need His detractors to have spiritual minds in order to make His point--thus invalidating their position)--so why even waste their time?

"The Emperor's new clothes are FANTASTIC!"--but we, simple children, not "expert" or "spiritual" enough to go along with the delusion, have the audacity to point out the stark reality that the Emperor is naked.
 

GracePeace

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Yes, that's a favorite. Their intellectualism is their spiritualism.

I don't want their spirit at all messing with my mind. Including most of all the insult of intelligence by overblown pseudo-scholarship.

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

If someone doesn't answer a simple question honestly, then it's proof of dishonesty. Especially when they start off the the 'Greek'. I mean, they could at least say yes or no, and then go into their long winded spiel.

For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.

For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
"Pseudo scholarship"--so perfect! Lol

Too many examples... don't need to go off on a tangent... lol "pseudo scholarship" these people are embarrassing with their rank ignorance they swear is "top notch" Christian scholarship, yet unknown to the early Church. Yes, they discovered real Christianity over a millennium after Christianity began--finally, Christianity became known through their indefensible incoherent babblings!
 

Peterlag

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The difference of course, is between answering a simple question with straightforward honesty, and not answering the question amidst a smokescreen of many words. The hope is to draw someone into a bunch of unrelated arguments, so that the original question is forgotten. I've learned not to indulge such obvious dishonesty, and insult to my intelligence.




And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

The first sign of a nonanswer and changing the Bible from plain English, is 'going to the Greek'.

I'll just conclude your 'running to God' to be forgiven of present sinning, is the same I've heard from others. It mocks confession with godly sorrow as 'unbelief', by them who convince themselves, that all their present and future sins are already forgiven.

That's a doctrine for presumptive sinning. It sears the conscience to the conviction of the Spirit. If not repented of, it can conclude in apostacy of reprobation, where God ceases to be mocked and does not deal with the hardened heart any long. John calls it sinning unto death.

Such a doctrine only leads to continued ungodliness, while despising the Spirit of grace. It's a form of blasphemy of the Holy Ghost, where they say the convicting Spirit of grace, is actually a spirit of error and 'unbelief'.

It's usually accompanied with the claim that the law of God is done away with, so that there is 'no trasngression' when transgressing it, and 'no condemnation' when sinning against God.

And as usual, I see you make no difference between the past law of Moses for the OT saints, and the present law of Christ for His NT saints.

And so, once again, we see so many many words just to avoid answering a simple question.

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

At least the Pharisees didn't try to weary Jesus' mind and patience, but just said, "We cannot tell". Or rather "we won't tell".

I reject the Christian religion for unrepentant transgressors, who convince themselves their unrighteous deeds are exempted from God's righteous judgment of all men's works.

But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
You don't make any sense when talking to me and you accuse me of saying and thinking things that I do not. And there are many. Like this one...

"I see you make no difference between the past law of Moses for the OT saints, and the present law of Christ for His NT saints."

Where in the heck did you get that idea? And then there's the one about running to God to confess your every sin that I wrote that many believe. You twisted that into that I was believing and doing it. You need to slow down. I'm no beginner here. In fact, I'm an expert on what is in the resurrected Christ.
 

Ghada

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You don't make any sense when talking to me and you accuse me of saying and thinking things that I do not.


Do you believe all sinning present and future is already forgiven.


And there are many. Like this one...

"I see you make no difference between the past law of Moses for the OT saints, and the present law of Christ for His NT saints."

Where in the heck did you get that idea?
Is transgressing the law of Christ sinning against God?
 

Peterlag

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Do you believe all sinning present and future is already forgiven.



Is transgressing the law of Christ sinning against God?

We can't get on the same page and maybe that's why you say I'm not answering the question.

We cannot sin when we are in Christ. And that does not have anything to do with "all sinning present and future" because all Christians are not walking in him.

I don't know what you mean when you say "transgressing the law of Christ"?

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.
 

Ghada

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We can't get on the same page and maybe that's why you say I'm not answering the question.


Do you believe the Christian doctrine that all sins past, present, and future are already forgiven, once someone believes Jesus is the Christ?
 

Peterlag

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Do you believe the Christian doctrine that all sins past, present, and future are already forgiven, once someone believes Jesus is the Christ?
I don't know. What I do know and keep saying is I believe there's no sin when we are in the spirit. And that does not mean Christ in you. It means us in him.
 

Ghada

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I don't know. I don't know what you mean when you say "transgressing the law of Christ"?


And they answered and said unto Jesus, We cannot tell.

Exactly what is it, that you are an expert at? Prevarication?
And that does not mean Christ in you. It means us in him.
This is a new one. I find it fascinating how far some Christian sinners will go, just to excuse their continued sinning.

Sounds like just another way of saying God no longer 'sees' our sinning, so we are not sinning, while sinning against Him...

We and our sinning is 'hid' in Christ.

And yet the only way and power to be freed from lust and sin, is by Christ in us the hope of glory...
 
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Peterlag

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And they answered and said unto Jesus, We cannot tell.
There you go again spinning and twisting. I am telling the truth that I don't know. Those who told Jesus We cannot tell were lying to him. And you compare me to the deception.
 

Ghada

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Christians who crucify to themselves the law of Christ, rather than mortify their sinful deeds, try to tell themselves that they have no sinning anymore, because they've decided there is no law of Christ anymore for them to obey.

Won't repent of transgressing the law of Christ by dead works, and so just get rid of the law altogether. Exactly as the hypocrites of old:

The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

Nevertheless they were disobedient, and rebelled against thee, and cast thy law behind their backs, and slew thy prophets which testified against them to turn them to thee, and they wrought great provocations.


What they have done is gotten rid of 'transgression' by ridding themselves of God's law. Like the atheists of the world, who don't believe in God, the law of God, nor 'sinning' against God. How can there be any transgression where there is no law? How can there be any sinning where there is no God?

They 'cannot sin', because they say there is no sin, since they say there is no law. And since God is never without His law, then there is no God where there is no law.

It's not so strange that people calling upon God, also do away with God, His law, and His judgment.

Hath a nation changed their gods, which are yet no gods? but my people have changed their glory for that which doth not profit.

How shall I pardon thee for this? thy children have forsaken me, and sworn by them that are no gods:


Preaching a God without law is no god at all.

Any yet the law and foundation of Christ still stands sure, and He knows them that are His, keeping His law and walking with Him.

And the judgment of God is sure to judge every man according to our works, without respect of persons. And in fact it is those naming His name that He judges first.

For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
 

Ghada

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  1. Do you know what the apostles could not bear that Jesus could not tell them 2,000 years ago?
Anything Jesus didn't tell His apostles to write to us, He isn't telling us.

There are no new apostles to write new Bible.

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

  1. Do you know the finish of the mystery of God as he declared to his servants the prophets, which was not to come until just before the seventh angel sounds?
Sure. All masters of mystery of iniquity, who justify sinning in the body of Christ, will end with His coming again.

  1. Do you even know how we were to be "led unto all truth?"
Sure. The Spirit of truth leading the honest believers and readers into all the truth of the Bible. That includes assists and corrections from other honest readers and believers in all the words of the Bible.

  1. Do you not know or even acknowledge that what is written on tablets is through a glass dimly?
Sure. No one can say they know all the truth of the Bible. There's always something more to learn more perfectly the doctrine of Christ.

False apostles and 'revelators' think to add more of their own 'truth' to the Bible by 'revelation' of the spirit of error.

  1. Do you not know that the "normal meaning" of even the scriptures was confused by God himself,
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

  1. and then corrupted by false teachers with their destructive doctrines?
Sure. Confusing and changing the words of God began in the garden, when Eve said neither should they 'touch it'.

Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

(Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?




You know very little.
Of what you think you know? Unfortunately, I am learning more all the time.

But, correcting errors is a good exercise to increase in more perfect understanding of Bible truth.
 
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Ghada

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I don't know. What I do know and keep saying is I believe there's no sin when we are in the spirit. And that does not mean Christ in you. It means us in him.
The reason we know they were lying, is the same here. The question asked is not answered by knowledge, but is one of faith.

Jesus asked them what they believed about the baptism of John, and I ask if you believe you are forgiven of all your past, present, and future sinning. It's not a question about knowledge of the Bible.

Now, if you don't even 'know' what you believe, then why are you arguing about something, that you also claim to be ignorant of? Especially as some so called 'expert'.

You've just shown that you're not someone to have an honest argument with in these matters. It's not so rare among certain Christians who believe it is impossible to cease sinning on earth, and walk with Jesus the way He walked as a man.
 

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Jesus asked them what they believed about the baptism of John, and I ask if you believe you are forgiven of all your past, present, and future sinning. It's not a question about knowledge of the Bible.

Matthew 21:24-27 LITV
24) And answering, Jesus said to them, I also will ask you one thing, which if you tell Me, I also will tell you by what authority I do these things.
25) The baptism of John, from where was it? From Heaven, or from men? And they reasoned among themselves, saying, If we shall say, From Heaven, He will say to us, Why then did you not believe him?
26) But if we should say, From men, we fear the people. For all hold John to be a prophet.
27) And answering Jesus, they said, We do not know. And He said to them, Neither do I tell you by what authority I do these things.

Actually, Jesus merely asked them where it was from. You are inserting "believed" where it does not appear in the text. Now, the answer may come from their beliefs, but that's not what Jesus asked.

I find this kind of lack of attention to Scripture is responsible for much error.

Much love!
 

marks

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Oct 10, 2018
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You've just shown that you're not someone to have an honest argument with in these matters.
Interesting thing for you to say. That's why I don't normally post to you. I don't find you to be an honest person, or knowledgeable of the Scriptures. And that's a bad combo!

Much love!