Church Age

[Dave M]

When does the church age end?? wouldn't the church age also be considered the age of grace??

the church age ending before the tribulation is key component in making the pre-trib theory work, I dont see it..

To me the church age is the age of Grace, and that is when Jesus is our salvation, anyone who puts Jesus as there Lord and savior is in the Church age, that does not end during tribulation, so my thought is the church age goes on into tribulation and does not end until the 1,000 rule begins??

what say you??

 

[Rita]

Yes, I agree- the church age started at Pentecost - and we are still in the church age................
I had never really thought about it until today when I was reading a book of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Rita

 

[Enoch111]

When does the church age end?? wouldn't the church age also be considered the age of grace??

When the Church is raptured, that is the end of the Church Age, as well as the Age of Grace. God's judgments begin soon thereafter. That is why Scripture says that TODAY is the day of salvation.

 

[Mayflower]

Yes. I'm sad. I wanted a rapture before tribulation.

 

[Dave M]

When the Church is raptured, that is the end of the Church Age, as well as the Age of Grace

Romans 11:25-26
Lest you be wise in your own sight, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;


So the fullness of the Gentiles (end of the church age) seems to come at the end of tribulation right before Jesus comes and save Israel..


Revelation 7:14
I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


In rev 7-14 it says these believers are saved because of Jesus blood, meaning grace to me, meaning the Church age goes on in tribulation, meaning pre-trip that says the church is gone and celebrating does not make sense, and why would Jesus have his celebration with out his guest (Israel) and full bride there also??

 

[XRose]

1 Corinthians 15 KJV
"For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord."
1 Thessalonians 4:16
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

These verse clearly show that Christians have to try survive the 7 years tribulation until at the last moment when the battle of Armageddon looksl ike destroying everyone Jesus will arrive to stop the slaughter, kill the armies, hunt out all the False Jews of Jerusalem and then lift surviving Christians off Earth to safely to watch the destruction below with the company of an unknowable number of Christians who die in the Last Days - possibly the 144,000.
JWs like to think they are that 144,000 but as they worship Baal and possess many graven images of idols and creeping things they are all set for destruction.

 

[Mayflower]

I was taught this before, that the Holy Spirit leaves the earth sometime before the Great Tribulation. But if there is no Rapture before Christ comes back and sets up the millinial kingdom, I don't see that happening. Where does that teaching come from that the Holy Spirit leaves Believers during the Great Tribulation (or leaves earth). It is partly why I always believed in a Rapture, because the Holy Spirit is meant to be our guide and empower us. And God promised to never leave nor forsake us.

 

[XRose]

you write: For our citizenship is in heaven' when the real translation more correctly is community of the heavens ie as children of GOD.
Jesus and other quite specifically said only a remnant of the elect will remain alive when he returns.
It doesn't really matter whether a Christian lives or dies as all will be resurrected to love with Jesus.

 

[Dave M]

I was taught this before, that the Holy Spirit leaves the earth sometime before the Great Tribulation

I am not aware of any scripture that supports this, there is scripture that says the Holly spirit has been restraining the evil one, and will no longer restrain him. Does not say the Holly Spirit leave us, how would people come to Christ then during the tribulation?

2 Thessalonians 2:7
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.

 

[Enoch111]

So the fullness of the Gentiles (end of the church age) seems to come at the end of tribulation right before Jesus comes and save Israel..

Incorrect. The Church Age comes to a close BEFORE the Tribulation. You will not find the word "church" or "churches" between Revelation 6-18 (which includes the Tribulation and Great Tribulation periods).

 

[Stranger]

I am not aware of any scripture that supports this, there is scripture that says the Holly spirit has been restraining the evil one, and will no longer restrain him. Does not say the Holly Spirit leave us, how would people come to Christ then during the tribulation?

2 Thessalonians 2:7
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.

In (2 Thess. 2:1-9) the Day of Christ or the Day of the Lord and the timing of it, is the subject matter. The anti-christ is revealed at the beginning of it. (2:3) The Holy Spirit hinders that progression of satan, known as the mystery of iniquity, (2:7) He does so until the right time. That will start the Tribulation. (2:3,8)

If that isn't the Holy Spirit, Who is hindering? Who is it?

People will come to Christ for salvation during the Tribulation but not under the Gospel of Grace. The Church is gone as it was Raptured before the Tribulation. These that are saved during the Tribulation are not part of the Church. They are the Tribulation saints and saved Israel. (Rev. 7:14-17)

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

I was taught this before, that the Holy Spirit leaves the earth sometime before the Great Tribulation. But if there is no Rapture before Christ comes back and sets up the millinial kingdom, I don't see that happening. Where does that teaching come from that the Holy Spirit leaves Believers during the Great Tribulation (or leaves earth). It is partly why I always believed in a Rapture, because the Holy Spirit is meant to be our guide and empower us. And God promised to never leave nor forsake us.

I don't believe the Holy Spirit leaves the earth. But the Church leaves the earth to meet Christ in the air at the Rapture and before the Tribulation. The Holy Spirit does cease to hinder the mystery of iniquity to allow the man of sin to be revealed. (2 Thess. 2:1-12)

Stranger

 

[Dave M]

People will come to Christ for salvation during the Tribulation but not under the Gospel of Grace

can you share scripture to support this.

thanks

 

[Stranger]

can you share scripture to support this.

thanks

It will be under the Gospel of the Kingdom first given to Israel. See (Matt. 3:2), (Matt. 4:17), (Matt. 10:5-6). That is Repent for the Kingdom of heaven is at hand. That changed when Israel rejected Christ. The Gospel would now center on the Person of Jesus Christ and Who He is. (Matt. 16:13) Thus during the Church age the Gospel is believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Once the Church is gone at the Rapture and God is dealing again with Israel, the Gospel of the Kingdom will be believed again by those who turn to Christ and will be preached by them throughout the world. (Matt. 24:14)

I am dispensational and pre-trib. I recognize not everyone will agree with this, but I believe it is Scriptural and sound.

Stranger

 

[XRose]

Don't forget that Isreal is the ten lost tribes of UK and USA and English speaking former colonies.
Isreal is not today's Isreal as they totally refuse to accept Jesus and 'the antichrist is the one who denies Jesus.'
1 John 1:22 Who is the liar, if it is not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son. 23Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father, but whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.'
These verses condemn the Jews, Muslims and so many others pagans.

 

[XRose]

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Jesus cannot collect the elect if they had already been pre-tribbed away?

 

[Stranger]

Don't forget that Isreal is the ten lost tribes of UK and USA and English speaking former colonies.
Isreal is not today's Isreal as they totally refuse to accept Jesus and 'the antichrist is the one who denies Jesus.'
1 John 1:22 Who is the liar, if it is not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son. 23Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father, but whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.'
These verses condemn the Jews, Muslims and so many others pagans.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Jesus cannot collect the elect if they had already been pre-tribbed away?

I am familiar with that doctrine of the lost tribes being England etc. But I do not hold to it. Of course Israel today does reject Jesus Christ. But that doesn't mean she always will. And I believe Scripture is clear that God will restore her.

God has His elect in many groups of believers. Those from Adam to Moses. Those who were of Israel under the Law. Those in the Church. Those during the Tribulation. Even the angels are elect.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[quietthinker]

When the Church is raptured, that is the end of the Church Age, as well as the Age of Grace. God's judgments begin soon thereafter. That is why Scripture says that TODAY is the day of salvation.

Enoch....could you point me to the scriptures you find support the rapture and just to qualify what i think you mean by the rapture; the sudden and instantaneous vanishing of people from the face of the earth denoting the return of Jesus....is this correct?

 

[farouk]

Yes, I agree- the church age started at Pentecost - and we are still in the church age................
...

@Rita, Indeed, this would be my understanding of dispensational distinctives, remembering also that the Word of God is now complete (I would also see the context of the original sign gifts in Acts as being in the transitional Apostolic period when the Word of God was not yet complete.)

 

[farouk]

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Jesus cannot collect the elect if they had already been pre-tribbed away?

Matthew 24 does not seem to be talking about the church, in any case.