"Church pastors" where are you???

[amigo de christo]

What do we see when we look at an ultrasound?

We see a living, created, human person, in the womb. We see an unborn child.

Not to mention that lil john who was six months in the womb , DID A LEAP of joy inside that womb . OH YES .
Life is life and folks just dont want to see that very truth .

 

[BarneyFife]

Stan are you really 80?
Your arguments sound like they come from a small child.

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You're gonna wanna get used to that.

Welcome to the forum!!!


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[Stan B]

Why are anti-abortionists... servants of Satan? If God didn't give a law against abortion, or didn't mention it... then why are you commenting? Are you more authoritative than God? If God is silent on an issue than the best you can do is also be silent.

Whatever your religion teaches, go for it!!

But I follow the Bible, and it says:

"Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them;" Eph 5:11

Anti-abortionists are just a transparently typical demonic cult. They take Scripture as a foundation, and then pile upon Scripture their demonic lies to give them credibility.

 

[Stan B]

You misread me again.
Or do you believe that baby's in the womb are actual mud pies?

Answers 1:a,2:you misread the question and your question doesn't make sense. I am not made of mud to make another being made of mud. I am made from my parents body and soul and all the way back to Adam(then the mud comes into play).

Yep!! All 62 elements from which our bodies are made, can be found in the earth. My mudpie has been working well for me over the years.

 

[David Boyer]

Yep!! All 62 elements from which our bodies are made, can be found in the earth. My mudpie has been working well for me over the years.

You still don't answer my charges of slander and calumny.
Where did I say God is a liar?
If you lived in my neck of the woods I would challenge you to a duel for what you said.

 

[David Boyer]

Yes, I am 80. Spent 18 of the last 24 months in the hospital. Fun place to be, with someone to prepare my meals, make my bed, and lots of other stuff including people to chat with. I like being in the hospital.
I still work fulltime. Last year in the hospital I earned over $.5 million just playing with my cell phone. <giggle>

Perhaps my comments sound like they come from a small child, but I am only trying to communicate with my audience. I am normally accustomed to talking to pastors and theologians with MDiv and PhDs. But then there are those like my 13-year-old granddaughter, who loves to discuss the Revelation. Her knowledge of the Book is far beyond anyone I have ever encountered on a forum, so spending hours with her is a delight. Another granddaughter writes twelve page letters filled with theological questions and comments. Our family is VERY Scripture oriented.

Wow the apple fell far from that tree.

 

[Stan B]

.
.Yeah, not sure how to break this to you, but a fetus is not part of a woman's body..

If a fetus was not part of the woman's body then it would rot! It is the woman's body that provides nourishment, oxygen, and disposal.

We have centuries of the most highly honoured Rabbinical scholars who have studied this matter in detail. They accept God's declaration and the Hebrew wording, that one does not become a viable living being until a fetus exits the womb, and the umbilical cord is cut, causing the infant to take its first breath. The only point of contention was whether one became a viable living merely being after the head exited the womb, or whether the entire body had to exit and the umbilical cord cut, making it no longer a part of the woman's body.

 

[Stan B]

Wow the apple fell far from that tree.

I am content. I have a REALLY good life!

 

[David Boyer]

I am content. I have a REALLY good life!

Is that because you like to slander people on message boards?
Why did you slander me and why will you not defend yourself against my charges?

 

[Stan B]

Is that because you like to slander people on message boards?
Why did you slander me and why will you not defend yourself against my charges?

You have designated God and Scripture to be a lie so many times, that I would not know where to start.

 

[Stan B]

You still don't answer my charges of slander and calumny.
Where did I say God is a liar?
If you lived in my neck of the woods I would challenge you to a duel for what you said.

I am sure you would.

"Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"

 

[Stan B]

Remember that the Revelation passage only applies to Revelation. Do not give me the last book in the Bible schlock as it doesn't need to be. The Bible is a compilation of books and Revelation only applies to Revelation unless otherwise stated.

You are apparently talking about Rev 22, God last and final message to mankind:

Nothing May Be Added or Removed
"I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book." Rev 22

You say "Revelation passage only applies to Revelation". Where in Scripture did you find the information that this passage applied ONLY to the Book of Revelation? Are you just adding to the prophecy of this book, when the passage says that is forbidden?? "God is stupid" is a new mantra for you.

As I read that passage, it was evident to me, that as He said "the prophecy of this book", the title of the book I was reading was the "Holy Bible", at least 1/3 of which is prophesy.

Being familiar with the ways of God, He knew that His very last admonition to us was to refrain from adding or taking away from the book that now bears the name Holy Bible. He knew that in the last days we would be studying Scripture; not just Revelation, but the prophecies of Ezekiel, Daniel, Matthew, et al.

God is not stupid. He is way ahead of us.

 

[Stan B]

Is that because you like to slander people on message boards?
Why did you slander me and why will you not defend yourself against my charges?

I have answered all your charges with Scripture. Blindness may have allowed you to overlook my responses.

 

[Stan B]

Not to mention that lil john who was six months in the womb , DID A LEAP of joy inside that womb . OH YES .
Life is life and folks just dont want to see that very truth .

The fact that the fetus "leaped" doesn't indicate anything significant. That's just a normal part of fetal development. In later months, fetuses move and kick about 30 times per hour. In this instance, the fetus was merely startled, reacting to the loud and boisterous sound of Mary greeting Elizabeth. Like is says in the Bible the fetus leaped "As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears".

So the fetus was merely reacting to a loud noise. And I can clearly envision the loud exuberant meeting between Mary and Elizabeth. It is reasonable to believe that Mary and her cousin did not see each other that often, since the arduous trip between their two homes was 70 miles/112 km, and they did not have buses in those days. And for a pregnant 13 year old girl like Mary, that must have been a really challenging trip.

In the original language, an embryo or fetus has no personhood until it is born. This is consistent with ancient Jewish law, wherein a fetus is just a part of the mother's body until it is born.

 

[RLT63]

The fact that the fetus "leaped" doesn't indicate anything significant. That's just a normal part of fetal development. In later months, fetuses move and kick about 30 times per hour. In this instance, the fetus was merely startled, reacting to the loud and boisterous sound of Mary greeting Elizabeth. Like is says in the Bible the fetus leaped "As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears".

So the fetus was merely reacting to a loud noise. And I can clearly envision the loud exuberant meeting between Mary and Elizabeth. It is reasonable to believe that Mary and her cousin did not see each other that often, since the arduous trip between their two homes was 70 miles/112 km, and they did not have buses in those days. And for a pregnant 13 year old girl like Mary, that must have been a really challenging trip.

In the original language, an embryo or fetus has no personhood until it is born. This is consistent with ancient Jewish law, wherein a fetus is just a part of the mother's body until it is born.

A fetus can hear, be startled, leap and kick but is not alive?

 

[Stan B]

A fetus can hear, be startled, leap and kick but is not alive?

Yeah! The autonomous nervous system develops first. The brain is the last to develop and really hasn’t finished basic development until 2 years of age.

kicking around in the womb is a way for the fetus to develop basic musculature in preparation for birth.

 

[Stan B]

A fetus can hear, be startled, leap and kick but is not alive?

Yes, a fetus is comprised of living cells like any other part of the body. Dead cells are not a good thing to be rotting in the body. But like other cells in the body which are living organisms which react to pain, etc., they are not a viable living being. They only become a viable living being when they become capable of living independently on their own after exiting from the womb, and no longer need an umbilical cord to feed them, breath for them, etc. A three-month fetus is not capable of doing that.

I am going my the studies of major Rabbinical theologians, who are looking at this from the perspective of the original passages in the Hebrew language.

 

[Mantis]

Kill em all then right?

 

[amigo de christo]

The fact that the fetus "leaped" doesn't indicate anything significant. That's just a normal part of fetal development. In later months, fetuses move and kick about 30 times per hour. In this instance, the fetus was merely startled, reacting to the loud and boisterous sound of Mary greeting Elizabeth. Like is says in the Bible the fetus leaped "As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears".

So the fetus was merely reacting to a loud noise. And I can clearly envision the loud exuberant meeting between Mary and Elizabeth. It is reasonable to believe that Mary and her cousin did not see each other that often, since the arduous trip between their two homes was 70 miles/112 km, and they did not have buses in those days. And for a pregnant 13 year old girl like Mary, that must have been a really challenging trip.

In the original language, an embryo or fetus has no personhood until it is born. This is consistent with ancient Jewish law, wherein a fetus is just a part of the mother's body until it is born.

for when the babe heard he leaped FOR JOY . try reading a bit farther down .
A BLOB dont have emtions , BUT A LIVING HUMAN DOES . THE BABE LEAPED FOR JOY . It wasnt some impulse .IT WAS FOR JOY .
STOP supporting the murder of unborn babes .

 

[amigo de christo]

A fetus can hear, be startled, leap and kick but is not alive?

if we read what elizabeth says , she says The babe leaped FOR JOY . Exactly . FOR JOY .
Sounds like a conscious human to ME . exactly . Stan supports murder and will be held accountable
not to me , nor to you , BUT TO GOD on the DAY OF THE LORD . AND i pray the man has his eyes opened LONG before that day
or on THAT DAY wailing will be heard from stan himself as he is told , DEPART from me ye who worked inquity , CAUSE I NEVER KNEW YOU .