"Church pastors" where are you???

[Stan B]

A person begotten and conceived is created.

Abortion destroys a living, created, human person.

Abortion is murder of the unborn.

Fine! You obviously disagree with God when He says that one does not become a living being until He breathes into it the Breath of Life!

James, one of those nitwits that believed God, seemed to believe “the body without the spirit is dead” James 2:26

As for me, I think I will continue to believe what God says!

 

[Stan B]

A person begotten and conceived is created.

Abortion destroys a living, created, human person.

Abortion is murder of the unborn.

You say abortion is murder of the unborn. The only thing you are revealing is that you don’t understand basic English. How can you kill something that is not alive?? That’s just plain silliness.

 

[Matthias]

What do we see when we look at an ultrasound?

We see a living, created, human person, in the womb. We see an unborn child.

 

[Stan B]

Okay

What do we see when we look at an ultrasound?

We see a living, created, human person, in the womb. We see an unborn child.

It has obviously not been created, or it wouldn’t be inside a womb, and would be able to breath. God determines the beginning of life when one has the Breath of Life in their nostrils.

 

[David Boyer]

I have no idea what you are talking about. God starts out Scripture telling us how a person becomes a living being. Because I believe what God says, you call that poor exegesis!!

Your exegesis is that God is a LIAR??And I am stoopid for believing God!!

At the same time God also told us how the serpent operates: “Did God really say that??”

How do I escape the lies and BS I have been fed by studying the demonic NASB??

You didn't read what I said.
I didn't say you have poor exegesis. I say you are using eisegesis.
Where in the Bible did God breath into Abel, Cain, Seth, David, Solomon, Jeptha.... Does God come down and perform mouth to mouth with every child born?
I don't know why you are calling the NASB demonic... but that is all on you.
Calm down and take a moment to understand that Adam was a special case and not the rule. How would God turn mud into a living being? But how does that living being create another living being? These two events would not be carried out the same way.

 

[David Boyer]

Okay
It has obviously not been created, or it wouldn’t be inside a womb, and would be able to breath. God determines the beginning of life when one has the Breath of Life in their nostrils.

So why is it so important to you that abortion should be ok?
Did someone close to you have an abortion and you can't imagine that person doing something evil?
Was it a daughter, aunt, mother, wife?
Did you counsel someone to get an abortion and to change your opinion would requite you to face your part in a murder?

Why must abortion be ok in your opinion? What does it personally benefit you for abortion to be accepted in Christian circles?

 

[Marymog]

"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee; I have appointed thee a prophet unto the nations." Jer 1:5

That means He knew me before I came out of the womb, sanctified me, and appointed ME to be a prophet to the nations?

What a ridiculous twisting of Scripture. You demonstrate little interest or regard for Scripture, for truth, or mere common sense! Sad!

God has little interest in fetuses that are going to be aborted, in fact He incorporated abortion into our DNA. God aborts/miscarries fetuses on a regular. I know a number of people who have experienced God-delivered miscarriages/abortions. To say abortion is evil, is to say God is evil!!

What a ridiculous twisting of Scripture.

 

[Stan B]

So why is it so important to you that abortion should be ok?
Did someone close to you have an abortion and you can't imagine that person doing something evil?
Was it a daughter, aunt, mother, wife?
Did you counsel someone to get an abortion and to change your opinion would requite you to face your part in a murder?

Why must abortion be ok in your opinion? What does it personally benefit you for abortion to be accepted in Christian circles?

Your imagination is running ridiculously wild with speculative nonsense.

Why is it important to me that abortion be okay? For only one reason: TRUTH!!

Anti-abortionist's are merely servants of Satan, adding lies to Scripture, and spreading those lies, claiming that their lies come from God, but it does not take all that much familiarity with Scripture to know that God never issued such a law. They are merely servants of Satan, spreading his lies. God has issued a severe warning to who do such things, contained in His very last message to mankind:

Nothing May Be Added or Removed

18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book." Rev 22

I never really thought about abortion until a few years ago while engaged in an online forum with a local church I attended, one of them as well as one of the pastors said that abortion was a sin. That really struck me, because I couldn't recall where God ever issued such a law. As I looked into it, I discovered that God never prohibited abortion, but approved of it.

I no longer attend church.

 

[Stan B]

You didn't read what I said.
I didn't say you have poor exegesis. I say you are using eisegesis.
Where in the Bible did God breath into Abel, Cain, Seth, David, Solomon, Jeptha.... Does God come down and perform mouth to mouth with every child born?

You didn't read what I said.
I didn't say you have poor exegesis. I say you are using eisegesis.
Where in the Bible did God breath into Abel, Cain, Seth, David, Solomon, Jeptha.... Does God come down and perform mouth to mouth with every child born?
I don't know why you are calling the NASB demonic... but that is all on you.
Calm down and take a moment to understand that Adam was a special case and not the rule. How would God turn mud into a living being? But how does that living being create another living being? These two events would not be carried out the same way.

 

[Stan B]

You didn't read what I said.
I didn't say you have poor exegesis. I say you are using eisegesis.
Where in the Bible did God breath into Abel, Cain, Seth, David, Solomon, Jeptha.... Does God come down and perform mouth to mouth with every child born?
I don't know why you are calling the NASB demonic... but that is all on you.
Calm down and take a moment to understand that Adam was a special case and not the rule. How would God turn mud into a living being? But how does that living being create another living being? These two events would not be carried out the same way.

1. How should I know how God turns mud into a living being? I'm not God. But God declares that He created a living being from mud.

. a. Did God create a living being from mud? or

. b. Is God a liar?

2. How should I know how a human being created from mud, can create produced another living being made of mud. God says so. And you say:

. a. being made of mud can produce another being made of mud; or

. b. No he can't. God is a liar!

 

[Stan B]

[QUOTE="David Boyer, post: 1414889, member: 21618"

Where in the Bible did God breath into Abel, Cain, Seth, David, Solomon, Jeptha.... Does God come down and perform mouth to mouth with every child born? [/QUOTE]

Conclusions based upon absence of knowledge is regarded as totally illogical, such as your question:

>>Where in the Bible did God breath into Abel, Cain, Seth, David . . . ?

Where in the Bible does it say that they ever farted????

God says that one only becomes a living being when He breathes into it the Breath/Spirit of Life.

>>Does God come down and perform mouth to mouth with every child born?

God has never suggested any such thing. The Bible says that He breathes into our nostrils the Breath of Life. I get the feeling that you are again going to call the God of the Bible a LIAR!

Have you ever read the Bible?? A redundant question.[/QUOTE]

 

[David Boyer]

Your imagination is running ridiculously wild with speculative nonsense.

Why is it important to me that abortion be okay? For only one reason: TRUTH!!

Anti-abortionist's are merely servants of Satan, adding lies to Scripture, and spreading those lies, claiming that their lies come from God, but it does not take all that much familiarity with Scripture to know that God never issued such a law. They are merely servants of Satan, spreading his lies. God has issued a severe warning to who do such things, contained in His very last message to mankind:

Nothing May Be Added or Removed

18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book." Rev 22

I never really thought about abortion until a few years ago while engaged in an online forum with a local church I attended, one of them as well as one of the pastors said that abortion was a sin. That really struck me, because I couldn't recall where God ever issued such a law. As I looked into it, I discovered that God never prohibited abortion, but approved of it.

I no longer attend church.

Why are anti-abortionists... servants of Satan? If God didn't give a law against abortion, or didn't mention it... then why are you commenting? Are you more authoritative than God? If God is silent on an issue than the best you can do is also be silent.

Remember that the Revelation passage only applies to Revelation. Do not give me the last book in the Bible schlock as it doesn't need to be. The Bible is a compilation of books and Revelation only applies to Revelation unless otherwise stated.

Where does God approve of abortion. Now you have made a claim that would require you to defend your position. Chapter and Verse of where God approves of abortion.

And why would you "forsake the assembling together"? And I didn't ask about your church affiliation.

 

[David Boyer]

[QUOTE="David Boyer, post: 1414889, member: 21618"

Where in the Bible did God breath into Abel, Cain, Seth, David, Solomon, Jeptha.... Does God come down and perform mouth to mouth with every child born?

Conclusions based upon absence of knowledge is regarded as totally illogical, such as your question:

>>Where in the Bible did God breath into Abel, Cain, Seth, David . . . ?

Where in the Bible does it say that they ever farted????

God says that one only becomes a living being when He breathes into it the Breath/Spirit of Life.

>>Does God come down and perform mouth to mouth with every child born?

God has never suggested any such thing. The Bible says that He breathes into our nostrils the Breath of Life. I get the feeling that you are again going to call the God of the Bible a LIAR!

Have you ever read the Bible?? A redundant question.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]


He breathed into a clay model of a man... Is a baby in the womb a clay model of a baby? Does the matter of the child in the womb transmute into flesh upon first breath?
You are equating "God creating" to "human reproduction". I believe God tells the truth, and where have I said that "God lied"? I say you are misinterpreting things to fit your ideology.

Where in the Bible does it say God breathed the Breath of Life into YOUR nostrils?

 

[David Boyer]

1. How should I know how God turns mud into a living being? I'm not God. But God declares that He created a living being from mud.

. a. Did God create a living being from mud? or

. b. Is God a liar?

2. How should I know how a human being created from mud, can create produced another living being made of mud. God says so. And you say:

. a. being made of mud can produce another being made of mud; or

. b. No he can't. God is a liar!

You misread me again.
Or do you believe that baby's in the womb are actual mud pies?

Answers 1:a,2:you misread the question and your question doesn't make sense. I am not made of mud to make another being made of mud. I am made from my parents body and soul and all the way back to Adam(then the mud comes into play).

 

[Stan B]

Why are anti-abortionists... servants of Satan? If God didn't give a law against abortion, or didn't mention it... then why are you commenting? Are you more authoritative than God? If God is silent on an issue than the best you can do is also be silent.

Remember that the Revelation passage only applies to Revelation. Do not give me the last book in the Bible schlock as it doesn't need to be. The Bible is a compilation of books and Revelation only applies to Revelation unless otherwise stated.

Where does God approve of abortion. Now you have made a claim that would require you to defend your position. Chapter and Verse of where God approves of abortion.

And why would you "forsake the assembling together"? And I didn't ask about your church affiliation.

That is rather elementary. For an adultress:

"But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— here the priest is to put the woman under this curse— “may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.” Numbers 5:20-22 NIV

11 As for Ephraim, their glory will fly away like a bird—
No birth, no pregnancy and no conception!
12 Though they bring up their children,
Yet I will bereave/abort them until not a man is left.
Yes, woe to them indeed when I depart from them!
13 Ephraim, as I have seen,
Is planted in a pleasant meadow like Tyre;
But Ephraim will bring out his children for slaughter.
Hoseas's prayer:
14 Give them, O Lord what will You give?
Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.

16 Ephraim is stricken, their root is dried up,
They will bear no fruit.
Even though they bear children,
I will slay the precious ones of their womb.
17 My God will cast them away
Because they have not listened to Him;

So abortion is evil, then as you have said so many
times your "God is Evil". Your God is a liar.

 

[David Boyer]

That is rather elementary. For an adultress:

"But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— here the priest is to put the woman under this curse— “may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.” Numbers 5:20-22 NIV

11 As for Ephraim, their glory will fly away like a bird—
No birth, no pregnancy and no conception!
12 Though they bring up their children,
Yet I will bereave/abort them until not a man is left.
Yes, woe to them indeed when I depart from them!
13 Ephraim, as I have seen,
Is planted in a pleasant meadow like Tyre;
But Ephraim will bring out his children for slaughter.
Hoseas's prayer:
14 Give them, O Lord what will You give?
Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.

16 Ephraim is stricken, their root is dried up,
They will bear no fruit.
Even though they bear children,
I will slay the precious ones of their womb.
17 My God will cast them away
Because they have not listened to Him;

So abortion is evil, then as you have said so many
times your "God is Evil". Your God is a liar.

None of your references are about abortion.
First one is a test of faithfulness. If the woman was faithful then the baby is safe.
Second is a curse from God and is His right to. But even your Hosea text shows the children being born before being killed, or not being conceived in the first place.

When have I said the "God is Evil"????? When have I said that God is a liar????
Slander and calumny!

 

[Stan B]

Conclusions based upon absence of knowledge is regarded as totally illogical, such as your question:

>>Where in the Bible did God breath into Abel, Cain, Seth, David . . . ?

Where in the Bible does it say that they ever farted????

God says that one only becomes a living being when He breathes into it the Breath/Spirit of Life.

>>Does God come down and perform mouth to mouth with every child born?

God has never suggested any such thing. The Bible says that He breathes into our nostrils the Breath of Life. I get the feeling that you are again going to call the God of the Bible a LIAR!

Have you ever read the Bible?? A redundant question.

[/QUOTE]


He breathed into a clay model of a man... Is a baby in the womb a clay model of a baby? Does the matter of the child in the womb transmute into flesh upon first breath?
You are equating "God creating" to "human reproduction". I believe God tells the truth, and where have I said that "God lied"? I say you are misinterpreting things to fit your ideology.

Where in the Bible does it say God breathed the Breath of Life into YOUR nostrils?[/QUOTE]

God knew there would be people like you coming along calling God a liar. So Job was led by God to reiterate the truth. Job declares the meaning of the breath of life:

“Refute me if you can;

“The Spirit of God has made me,
And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

“Refute me if you can;

Array yourselves before me, take your stand.
“Behold, I belong to God like you;
I too have been formed out of the clay.
“Behold, no fear of me should terrify you,
Nor should my pressure weigh heavily on you. Job 33:44

“Far be it from me that I should declare you right;
Till I die I will not put away my integrity from me.
For as long as life is in me,
And the breath of God is in my nostrils" Job 27

The Bible can be a major inconvenience for those rejecting God's Word, and manufactureing their own religion.

 

[David Boyer]

He breathed into a clay model of a man... Is a baby in the womb a clay model of a baby? Does the matter of the child in the womb transmute into flesh upon first breath?
You are equating "God creating" to "human reproduction". I believe God tells the truth, and where have I said that "God lied"? I say you are misinterpreting things to fit your ideology.

Where in the Bible does it say God breathed the Breath of Life into YOUR nostrils?[/QUOTE]

God knew there would be people like you coming along calling God a liar. So Job was led by God to reiterate the truth. Job declares the meaning of the breath of life:

“Refute me if you can;

“The Spirit of God has made me,
And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

“Refute me if you can;

Array yourselves before me, take your stand.
“Behold, I belong to God like you;
I too have been formed out of the clay.
“Behold, no fear of me should terrify you,
Nor should my pressure weigh heavily on you. Job 33:44

“Far be it from me that I should declare you right;
Till I die I will not put away my integrity from me.
For as long as life is in me,
And the breath of God is in my nostrils" Job 27

The Bible can be a major inconvenience for those rejecting God's Word, and manufactureing their own religion.[/QUOTE]


Rough references... do better. I'll just respond with your references.
Job 27... "breath of God is in my nostrils" but that doesn't say that God breathed into his nostrils. Just that it is there, in Jobs opinion(if you referenced it correctly).
Job 33:44 "I too have been formed out of the clay"... I also have said that "ultimately" I am made of clay, but not directly. My parents didn't form clay into me then ask for supernatural CPR to be performed.
Unknown Reference: "Breath of God gives me life", absolutely... but did He breathe it into me upon birth or into my ultimate ancestor as a perpetual gift to the species?

You have made no points to inconvenience me, because I am not the one rejecting God's word.
Again, if God made no law against it and, if these are your proofs, no law endorsing it then you should shut up on the matter.
If God is silent then you should remain silent. I think God values life at a greater breadth than we do and as such we should give the largest latitude in our definition of life.

 

[David Boyer]

That is rather elementary. For an adultress:

"But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— here the priest is to put the woman under this curse— “may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.” Numbers 5:20-22 NIV

11 As for Ephraim, their glory will fly away like a bird—
No birth, no pregnancy and no conception!
12 Though they bring up their children,
Yet I will bereave/abort them until not a man is left.
Yes, woe to them indeed when I depart from them!
13 Ephraim, as I have seen,
Is planted in a pleasant meadow like Tyre;
But Ephraim will bring out his children for slaughter.
Hoseas's prayer:
14 Give them, O Lord what will You give?
Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.

16 Ephraim is stricken, their root is dried up,
They will bear no fruit.
Even though they bear children,
I will slay the precious ones of their womb.
17 My God will cast them away
Because they have not listened to Him;

So abortion is evil, then as you have said so many
times your "God is Evil". Your God is a liar.

Stan are you really 80?
Your arguments sound like they come from a small child. An educated small child to be sure, but half formed and with no regard to context.
You have had long enough on this earth to form better arguments than this... or are you lying about your age like you are lying about me?
Where do I say the things you said I said. (Was that childish enough for you to understand?)

Really, do better.

 

[BarneyFife]

Not sure how to explain this to you, but a fetus is part of a woman’s body, attached by what some of us call an umbilical cord. And if the fetus is submerged in amniotic fluid, then it does take a whole lot of intelligence to realize that God has not breathed into it the “Breath of Life” or it would immediately drown.

I have no idea how God’s foreknowledge of Jeremiah being born a prophet, in any way relates to the subject.

.
.
No need to explain something you don't seem to understand, yourself.

Yeah, not sure how to break this to you, but a fetus is not part of a woman's body.

If you'd like to explain to me how the miraculous, osmotic-like transaction that takes place between the fetal (host) organ, connected to the fetus by the umbilical cord, called the placenta and the uterine wall in any way resembles or constitutes a "GROWTH," that is something I'd be delighted to pay close attention to.

Makes one wonder if God was trying to tell "pro-choice" advocates something.

So, according to you and the courts of Canada, the fetus is distinguished among all other growths (which is barely a biological/medical term at all) as being the only kind that is attached to the host after its initial development by no kind of conventional connective tissue, which kinda makes it not really a "growth" at all.

In fact, most evolutionary-polluted scientists consider the nature of fetal development as being more of a parasitic nature, if I recall correctly, which is just a wonderfully Christian way to picture the miracle of fruitful human multiplication, now, isn't it?

And since your grossly misinterpreted and surface-read view of Genesis 2:7 (which, if indeed, you want to surface-read, ultra-literally, only happened once in history—***hmm, I wonder how Eve became a living soul, since she had her own, exclusive origin of construction, which makes no mention of breath at all?***) has you desperately making up junk biology and reading Jeremiah 1:5 through 6th commandment-corrective glasses (i.e., how can a "thee"—sounds like a person to me ¿—in a womb be a "growth?") to justify your belief as you go, not to mention everything else you're just simply ignoring, there seems to be very little possibility that we're going to have an intelligent conversation here.

As long as we're wondering, I wonder why doctors, lawyers, and prospective mothers and fathers have always called fetuses their "babies" and "unborn children?"

Once a man cherishes a falsehood in his heart it takes a miracle to break the spell.

Thank God for His mercy toward us!
.
.