"Church pastors" where are you???

[BarneyFife]

"And His disciples [talking with Jesus] asked Him, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?” And He answered and said, “Elijah is coming and will restore all things; but I say to you that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they wanted. So also the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” Then the disciples understood that He had spoken to them about John the Baptist." Matt 17:10-13

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You should know by now that I know what Jesus says. I had to preach at my church yesterday. I wouldn't dare go up front without knowing what Jesus says. ;)
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As for your comment about me skipping church, the reason I don't attend church is that I have enjoyed 18 of the past 24 months confined to hospital and long-term care.

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I'm very sorry to hear that. However, I'd rather hear that you're shut in than that you're just another guy who's too good for any church. There's a lot of that going on around here. At least that's what folks portray. I'll be praying that God will draw very close to you in your health problems.
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I don't engage in BS.

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Are you sure?
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A very close friend who is a Forensic Psychologist, was completley shocked when assigned to dealing with a prison population consisting of dads and granddads serving time for all manner of sexual crimes against their offspring. It is quite rampant out there regardless of what you choose to believe with no data to back it up.

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My wife has worked in the legal dept of the county Children And Youth Services Office for the last 13 years. Every awful thing that gets reported as happening to a child or baby goes across her desk. It's not likely that you have a better view of the situation than I. Just sayin'. And, again, you're ignoring the big picture. The vast majority of abortions are for convenience. That's no BS.
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[amigo de christo]

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You should know by now that I know what Jesus says. I had to preach at my church yesterday. I wouldn't dare go up front without knowing what Jesus says. ;)
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I'm very sorry to hear that. However, I'd rather hear that you're shut in than that you're just another guy who's too good for any church. There's a lot of that going on around here. At least that's what folks portray. I'll be praying that God will draw very close to you in your health problems.
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Are you sure?
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My wife has worked in the legal dept of the county Children And Youth Services Office for the last 13 years. Every awful thing that gets reported as happening to a child or baby goes across her desk. It's not likely that you have a better view of the situation than I. Just sayin'. And, again, you're ignoring the big picture. The vast majority of abortions are for convenience. That's no BS.
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Yes we must always ask ourselves what would JESUS do , what Did HE teach us to do .
Its real simple . DO unto others as you would have them do unto you .
IF i had a time machine and could take everyone back to the time they were within the womb
And then talked their loving mama into an abortion , WOULD they not try and stop such a thing .
SO WHY do it or support it done unto other unborn babies . DO UNTO OTHERS as YE would have done UNTO YOU .
That outta ring some serious bells . Cause i dont think ol stan would be supporting his own abortion
SO WHY SUPPORT THE ABORTION OF OTHERS .

 

[David Boyer]

I too came to Christ later in life . My advice the more one digs in the bible the clearer things become .
The problem is when folks sit under teachers who are already decieved and then they try and learn the scrips
through their leaders interpretations . Read that bible and feast with joy on it . That would have cleared things
up a whole lot faster .

Oh my Good God!! You can write without capitalising every third word.
It's a miracle.
I almost had to ignore you just because your posting style was so distracting.
Keep up the new look.

 

[amigo de christo]

Oh my Good God!! You can write without capitalising every third word.
It's a miracle.
I almost had to ignore you just because your posting style was so distracting.
Keep up the new look.

I will try my friend . But it truly is a habit of mine . So bear with it my friend .

 

[Lizbeth]

You should know by now, that I am not a Googler, but totally
"Sola Scriptura", and what I say comes from Scripture.

Was John the Baptist really Elijah?? Here is what Jesus says:

"And His disciples [talking with Jesus] asked Him, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?” And He answered and said, “Elijah is coming and will restore all things; but I say to you that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they wanted. So also the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” Then the disciples understood that He had spoken to them about John the Baptist." Matt 17:10-13

As for your comment about me skipping church, the reason I don't attend church is that I have enjoyed 18 of the past 24 months confined to hospital and long-term care. <grin>
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Luk 1:17

And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

This doesn't mean it is literally Elijah reincarnated, but it is the same spiritual mantle and spiritual authority that Elijah had, and which Elisha also took up after him.

 

[Stan B]

Luk 1:17

And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

This doesn't mean it is literally Elijah reincarnated, but it is the same spiritual mantle and spiritual authority that Elijah had, and which Elisha also took up after him.

Nope! If Jesus said it was Elijah, then I believe Him and have no intent of calling Jesus a liar.

Same scenario as when Jesus met and supped with Abraham (bread and wine) under the name of Melchizedek.

Luk 1:17

And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

This doesn't mean it is literally Elijah reincarnated, but it is the same spiritual mantle and spiritual authority that Elijah had, and which Elisha also took up after him.

No one mentioned Elijah being reincarnated. He was never dead!

He was present on the Mount of Transfiguration, and will again be present as one of the two witnesses in the 7th Seal in the Revelation.

 

[Stan B]

Luk 1:17

And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

This doesn't mean it is literally Elijah reincarnated, but it is the same spiritual mantle and spiritual authority that Elijah had, and which Elisha also took up after him.

Elijah cannot be reincarnated, because he never died.

 

[Lizbeth]

Elijah cannot be reincarnated, because he never died.

Certainly agree. But can a man be born (physically) twice? John the Baptist was conceived and born....he wasn't literally Elijah, but came in the spirit and power of Elijah, as Jesus said. John had the same ministry and spiritual authority/power that Elijah had....to call Israel to repentance. Always we want to have ears to hear what the scriptures are saying....like where Jesus talked about leaven He wasn't talking about bread. The prophecy about Elijah wasn't fulfilled the way the Jews were expecting, just like other prophecies eg, about the messiah and His kingdom weren't fulfilled the way they expected. (Often the word of God tests us.)

Anyway, I'm sorry about your health situation....it takes courage and patience to face the aging process, as I'm starting to find out. Thinking of it as the Lord putting His finishing touches on our inner "molding and making" before we depart this life. Outwardly wasting away, but inwardly being renewed day by day.....we have heaven to gain in the end. Lord bless.

 

[Mantis]

The dude is fully for abortion and cannot utter the words Jesus is Lord. I’m praying for him.

 

[Stan B]

Certainly agree. But can a man be born (physically) twice? John the Baptist was conceived and born....he wasn't literally Elijah, but came in the spirit and power of Elijah, as Jesus said. John had the same ministry and spiritual authority/power that Elijah had....to call Israel to repentance. Always we want to have ears to hear what the scriptures are saying....like where Jesus talked about leaven He wasn't talking about bread. The prophecy about Elijah wasn't fulfilled the way the Jews were expecting, just like other prophecies eg, about the messiah and His kingdom weren't fulfilled the way they expected. (Often the word of God tests us.)

A couple of weeks ago, I would have agreed with your interpretation, but as you stated: "Always we want to have ears to hear what the scriptures are saying....". So I went to the Bible to find out what the Scriptures had to say. Jesus confirmed to His disciples that John the Baptist was indeed literally Elijah!:

"And His disciples asked Him, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?” And He answered and said, “Elijah is coming and will restore all things; but I say to you that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they wanted. So also the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” Then the disciples understood that He had spoken to them about John the Baptist." Matt 17:10-13

Why did Elijah not come under his own name rather than under the name of John the Baptist? Why did Jesus, in the same manner, not come to Abraham under His own name, rather than Melchizidek? I don't know the purpose, but I know that it did happen.

 

[Illuminator]

 

[Lizbeth]

View attachment 26009

All true children of God ARE one and HAVE fellowship with one another. There is nothing anyone can do to manufacture this. The body of Christ - His temple - is in spirit, not of the flesh or confined in buildings made by the hands of man. Whatever man in his self-effort puts his hands of flesh on to build is a counterfeit, ie, only an artificial rendering and therefore has no LIFE of the Spirit and can't produce life. The ark of God was not permitted to be handled by hands of flesh...that lead to death. All we are to do is lift up Christ so that He will draw "whosoever will" to Him.

 

[Lizbeth]

A couple of weeks ago, I would have agreed with your interpretation, but as you stated: "Always we want to have ears to hear what the scriptures are saying....". So I went to the Bible to find out what the Scriptures had to say. Jesus confirmed to His disciples that John the Baptist was indeed literally Elijah!:

"And His disciples asked Him, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?” And He answered and said, “Elijah is coming and will restore all things; but I say to you that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they wanted. So also the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” Then the disciples understood that He had spoken to them about John the Baptist." Matt 17:10-13

Why did Elijah not come under his own name rather than under the name of John the Baptist? Why did Jesus, in the same manner, not come to Abraham under His own name, rather than Melchizidek? I don't know the purpose, but I know that it did happen.

It occurs to me that flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of heaven, so Elijah's body would have had to have died. His being taken up like that was a foreshadowing of what is to happen with those who are alive and remain in the end. The physical body is likened to a seed that has to die before the spiritual body is put on. And that Elijah himself was a type/shadow of John the Baptist. Old testament scripture is chock full of types/shadows which we identify as "this is that".

Scripture is written in a kind of spiritual language.....often with a lot of hyperbole and dramatic overstating of things, as well as similitudes, which we cotton onto with the help of the Holy Spirit. Where it says, "Elijah already came and they did not recognize him" ...the word for "recognize" in that verse can mean perceive or understand. It could easily mean they did not perceive or understand that John was the fulfillment of that prophecy....that he was walking in the same spirit and power (authority) of Elijah. They did not recognize the spiritual authority he was endued with and didn't receive him or accept what he preached. Seems to have been the same kind of hypocrisy that whitewashed the tombs of the prophets whom they had persecuted and murdered beforehand. As Israel's spiritual leaders they ought to have been able to discern and recognize what was of God.

Anyway, I'm just discussing....don't know if there is any value in arguing about it or in believing either way.

 

[Stan B]

It occurs to me that flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of heaven, so Elijah's body would have had to have died. His being taken up like that was a foreshadowing of what is to happen with those who are alive and remain in the end. The physical body is likened to a seed that has to die before the spiritual body is put on. And that Elijah himself was a type/shadow of John the Baptist. Old testament scripture is chock full of types/shadows which we identify as "this is that".

Scripture is written in a kind of spiritual language.....often with a lot of hyperbole and dramatic overstating of things, as well as similitudes, which we cotton onto with the help of the Holy Spirit. Where it says, "Elijah already came and they did not recognize him" ...the word for "recognize" in that verse can mean perceive or understand. It could easily mean they did not perceive or understand that John was the fulfillment of that prophecy....that he was walking in the same spirit and power (authority) of Elijah. They did not recognize the spiritual authority he was endued with and didn't receive him or accept what he preached. Seems to have been the same kind of hypocrisy that whitewashed the tombs of the prophets whom they had persecuted and murdered beforehand. As Israel's spiritual leaders they ought to have been able to discern and recognize what was of God.

Anyway, I'm just discussing....don't know if there is any value in arguing about it or in believing either way.

You make a valid point about flesh and blood not going to Heaven. In Elijah's case, I doubt that he would have survived the trip through the universe in an earthly body. So his body was transformed into a heavenly body somewhere along the way.

We currently live in our 'earthly tent', but it is going to be replaced with something better:

"For we know that if our earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made by hands, eternal in the heavens. For indeed, in this tent we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven, since in fact after putting it on, we will not be found naked. For indeed, we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life. Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave us the Spirit as a pledge." 2 Cor 5

 

[Matthias]

I’m standing in the gap, alongside many others.

 

[amigo de christo]

I’m standing in the gap, alongside many others.

The lambs gotta do as the lambs must do . BUT we better make sure our gap ALINGS PERFECTLY with
the scriptures . I , by grace stand in the gap , BUT do so with the truth of that bible
and not with what men told me was the truth in that bible . AKA we better make sure
we aint still sitting under men and doctrines . Now i aint even saying you are doing this .
The only reason i responded to your response was not to accuse YOU nor to say you are in the wrong .
THE TRUTH IS more lambs MUST STAND UP and fill in the gap . ALL i am saying is
WE better make sure what we are fillling the peoples with , aint just more trash of men to try and fill in the void made by men .
IF I were training men to lead churches , DO you know what i would do .
I would open the training with these words as i held the bible high . THIS IS OUR BOOK , THIS IS OUR WEAPON
and this is THE BOOK and the ONLY BOOK WE GONNA READ PEROID . Now i suggest all do the same .

 

[stunnedbygrace]

No need to assume that everyone who is confused is lost

That’s a relief. Thanks.