Church...

[Mantis]

Honestly the thing that has helped me the most is not church. It is Christian radio, CSN. It is mostly preacher sermons 24/7 with some worship music on Saturdays I think. I do attend church when my back allows but I haven’t been fed from it like the radio.

 

[theefaith]

Thank you, my good friend.

right pal!

 

[Philip James]

Does the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world stand on four legs?

No. HE stands on two..

Then I saw standing in the midst of the throne and the four living creatures and the elders, a Lamb that seemed to have been slain

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[Pathfinder7]

It is Christian radio

Christian radio was important/very hepful.
- During the early days of my spiritual journey..in 1970's.
----
Christian broadcasting/radio is very effective.
- in many 'persecuted/restricted' countries..

 

[Johann]

My friend has spoken truth . The leadership of many churches has long sold out the truth .
If the elders , leaders of A church are sold out , the church has no chance .
IF those leaders refuse to hear correction GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT and take as many with you as you can .
Todays mindset is just hug all and have unity . ITS why the LEAVEN has LUMPED the masses FULL now
and it will get only worse . COME YE OUT FROM AMONST the FLEECER of the sheeps
and BE YE HOLY and let the true lambs gather and learn Christ .

The West have it wrong, in the East the believers fellowship in little houses, dilapidated houses with dimly lighted candlesticks or oil lamps.
Where two or three gathered in my name...this is assembly/ekklesia.
I prefer to walk alone.
J.

 

[Johann]

The West have it wrong, in the East the believers fellowship in little houses, dilapidated houses with dimly lighted candlesticks or oil lamps.
Where two or three gathered in my name...this is assembly/ekklesia.
I prefer to walk alone.
J.

I also believe this forum is no assembly either.
J.

 

[Brakelite]

Hello Brakelite,

Sure. Here are some of them:

For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

And for 2000 years our brothers and sisters have recognized this as referring to the Eucharist.

Here's some more of St. Ignatius:

in obedience to the bishop and the presbytery with an undivided mind, breaking one and the same bread, which is the medicine of immortality, and the antidote which prevents us from dying, but a cleansing remedy driving away evil, [which causes] that we should live in God through Jesus Christ

Ignatius of Antioch to the Ephesians (Roberts-Donaldson translation)

Pax et Bonum!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

Interesting your church rejects the word of God, scripture, as the foundation of faith and practise, and had introduced on equal and in some cases, greater merit, tradition. Therefore in order to support your tradition, the word being insufficient, you must go elsewhere.
KJV Ephesians 5:25-27
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Nothing about eating human flesh here. The church is sanctified and cleansed by the word of God.

"Sanctify them through thy truth. Thy word is truth". Which is why the Word Himself could testify of Himself that He is Truth.
Not believing scripture as your standard, you resort to men's reinterpretations rather than allow scripture to interpret scripture. Scripture is it's own expositor.

 

[Cassandra]

Interesting your church rejects the word of God, scripture, as the foundation of faith and practise, and had introduced on equal and in some cases, greater merit, tradition. Therefore in order to support your tradition, the word being insufficient, you must go elsewhere.
KJV Ephesians 5:25-27
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Nothing about eating human flesh here. The church is sanctified and cleansed by the word of God.

"Sanctify them through thy truth. Thy word is truth". Which is why the Word Himself could testify of Himself that He is Truth.
Not believing scripture as your standard, you resort to men's reinterpretations rather than allow scripture to interpret scripture. Scripture is it's own expositor.

Not to mention that Jesus was still alive at the first Communion, and was not missing pieces of Himself when they shared bread and wine.

 

[Philip James]

Interesting your church rejects the word of God, scripture, as the foundation of faith and practise, a

Hello Brakelite,

The foundation of our faith and practice is Christ Himself, and the Faith was being practiced before one word of the New Testament was penned..

For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over, took bread,

and, after he had given thanks, broke it and said, "This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me."

In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."

For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.

Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord.

Reinterpreting scripture to come up with something different than that which has been practiced by the whole Church, everywhere, is a tradition of men that you follow..

Pax et Bonum

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[Philip James]

Not to mention that Jesus was still alive at the first Communion, and was not missing pieces of Himself when they shared bread and wine.

Why would you think he'd be missing pieces of Himself?
We do not receive bits of Jesus, but the whole Christ, is intimately united with us..

For this reason a man shall leave (his) father and (his) mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."

This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and the church.

Pax et Bonum

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[Brakelite]

Why would you think he'd be missing pieces of Himself?
We do not receive bits of Jesus, but the whole Christ, is intimately united with us..

For this reason a man shall leave (his) father and (his) mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."

This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and the church.

Pax et Bonum

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

The very best thing I can say regarding the above, is that it is inventive.

 

[Brakelite]

Hello Brakelite,

The foundation of our faith and practice is Christ Himself, and the Faith was being practiced before one word of the New Testament was penned..

For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over, took bread,

and, after he had given thanks, broke it and said, "This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me."

In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."

For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.

Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord.

Reinterpreting scripture to come up with something different than that which has been practiced by the whole Church, everywhere, is a tradition of men that you follow..

Pax et Bonum

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

I do not believe that transubstantiation was practiced by the apostolic church. That one student among thousands in the next generation happened to teach it, and it become 'a thing', is testament to the rapidity with which heresy entered among God's people.

 

[Mantis]

Christian radio was important/very hepful.
- During the early days of my spiritual journey..in 1970's.
----
Christian broadcasting/radio is very effective.
- in many 'persecuted/restricted' countries..

Yeah I remember being out in the middle of nowhere driving and all you could get was country or Christian radio. I was drawn in listening to old preachers preach the word. Gods word is good for our souls.

 

[theefaith]

No. HE stands on two..

Then I saw standing in the midst of the throne and the four living creatures and the elders, a Lamb that seemed to have been slain

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

Amen!

 

[theefaith]

Brakelite where does it say scripture alone?

Explain acts 1:8

or acts 2:42?

Testimony of the fathers is apostolic tradition! Teaching authority of Christ in His church!

Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19
Lk 10:16
Jn 15:5
Jn 20:21
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15

Is the New Testament included in the “Bible alone”?

Please explain how the church of Jesus Christ existed before the New Testament, the church taught and believed before the New Testament with the same authority of Christ!

Church of the apostles has the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21-23

The church wrote the New Testament, the church gathered the cannon of scripture, the church alone has authority to say what is, and what is not scripture and to give the authoritative interpretation or meaning of scripture!

where does it say the “Bible alone”?

or that all the truths revealed by Christ are found in scripture?

 

[theefaith]

Tradition!

1) Tradition!

Divine tradition:

Apostolic tradition:

Inspired human tradition:

Mere human tradition:

Demonic tradition:


2) Explanation:

Tradition means teaching!

Divine tradition: the personal teaching of Jesus Christ to His church of the apostles!

Apostolic tradition: extension of the divine tradition to all time and places
Universal, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit to safeguard the truth and teach all nations!

Teaching authority of the apostles!

Inspired human tradition: the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to a man who is not an apostle, but is verified by the apostolic tradition!

Mere human tradition: unaided by God!

Demonic tradition: inspiration of satan!


3) Examples:

Divine tradition: only the personal teaching of Christ to the church of the apostles.

Apostolic tradition: an extension of the divine tradition with the inspiration and guidance of the Holy Spirit to safeguard, defend, and teach the faith revealed by Christ in the unity of the church founded by Christ on Peter, & the apostles!

1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you…

Inspired human tradition: the gospel of Luke who was not an apostle.

Mere human tradition: 1st Sunday communion, Sunday school, wed night prayer meeting. Etc.

Demonic tradition: the theory of evolution or the communist manifesto.


4) Scripture:

Tradition in general:

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Divine tradition:

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints!

Apostolic tradition:

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost!

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness!
(all scripture not 66 books alone)

Matt 16:18-19
Matt 28:17
Jn 20:21-23
Lk 10:16
Jn 13:20
Jn 8:32
Jn 16:13
1 Tim 3:15


Inspired human tradition:

Luke’s gospel and acts of the apostles.

Mere human tradition:

Not scriptural! No authority from God!

Demonic tradition:

Not scriptural! No authority from God!


5) The nature of the church!

The church does not require scripture to know the truths revealed by God! Jude 1:3, 1 Tim 3:15

Church is eternal! Lk 1:32-33

Christ and His apostolic church are one! Matt 5:14 Jn 15:1 Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 1 Tim 3:15

The holy church is a Perfect society founded by Christ for the salvation of all men!

And to Faithfully transmit and saintly safeguard the deposit of faith!

No one has authority from Christ except His church of the apostles to define and declare truth!

Scripture is the possession of the church!

All of divine revelation is the word of God and thee faith given to the church of the apostles by Christ
to safeguard against all error, and
to faithfully teach all nations!

The doctrine of the “Bible alone” is heresy and is opposed by the scriptures. Matt 16:28-19 Matt 18:18 Jn 29:21-23 Acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

The church is an extension of Christ who taught the truth, and the church is commanded to teach all nations these same truths called the deposit of faith! Matt 28:19 Jude 1:3

All scripture came by tradition!

By divine, apostolic, and inspired human tradition that is verified by the apostolic tradition!

The church of the apostles founded by Christ on Peter & the apostles received all of the faith, all truths revealed by God personally taught by Christ to his church!

The rule of faith is the doctrine of the apostles! Or the apostolic tradition! Acts 2:42

All men Must be taught, or instructed, Lk 1:4 acts 8:31 and hear the church Matt 18:17 and the church is the pillar of truth 1 Tim 3:15 cos Christ and his apostolic church are one!
Matt 5:14 , Jn 15:5, Acts 9:4, Eph 5:32

Truth must be revealed by Christ Jude 1:3 and taught by his apostolic church. Matt 28:19

The holy church does not require scripture to know the truth cos the church received the “deposit of faith” Jude 1:3 from Christ in person and the church of the apostles by apostolic authority and inspired human authority wrote the scriptures, and the apostolic authority verified them, declared what is inspired scripture, and what is not the inspired scripture, as an example the gospel of Thomas is not inspired scripture but the gospel of Matthew is inspired scripture.

The deposit of faith, the entire divine revelation and word of God is given to the church of the apostles by Christ to safeguard against all error!
And to faithfully teach all nations!
Jude 1:3, Matt 28:19

The church of the apostles founded by Christ on Peter received all of the faith, all truths revealed by God personally taught by Christ to his apostles!

The rule of faith is the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Must hear the church Matt 18:17 the church is the pillar of truth 1 Tim 3:15 cos Christ and his apostolic church are one!
Matt 5:14
Jn 15:5
Acts 9:4
eph 5:32

Truth must be revealed by Christ Jude 1:3 and taught by his apostolic church Matt 28:19

The church does not require scripture to know truth cos the church received the “deposit of faith” Jude 1:3 from Christ in person and the church of the apostles by apostolic authority and inspired human authority wrote the scriptures.

Scripture is the possession of the church! Used for the needs and purposes in the church!

All new testament Scripture was written by the church!


Divine revelation or the word of God! Handed to His church of the apostles by Christ! Jude 1:3
To safeguard against all error!
To faithfully teach all nations!
Matt 28:19

 

[theefaith]

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1


Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Fundamentalism drives a wedge between Christ and his church, separates Christ from His kingdom, and the authority of Christ from the new covenant!

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Extends to the truth and the church

Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

 

[theefaith]

Truth must be revealed by God, and in its fullness in the sacred deposit of faith by Christ to his church! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 and must be taught by the church, or proposed for our belief by the apostles!
Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Jn 20:21 acts 8:31 Rom 1:5 col 2:7 1 Tim 3:15
matt 18:17

Christ and His church are one! acts 9:4 Acts 5:32 Jn 15:1-5

Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

The evidence of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ & His holy church!

The rule of faith for Christians is Jesus Christ Jn 14:6 and His church! Matt 18:17 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

True Christians cannot listen to the errors of excommunicated heretics, but we listen faithfully to Christ, in the bosom of holy mother church, the only ark of salvation!
1 pet 3:20-21 matt 18:17 matt 16:18-19 matt 28:19-20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-23

Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

Christ and His church are one! (Acts 9:4 eph 5:31 Jn 15:1-5)

Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 8:12 & Matt 5:14



God does not reveal His truth in a vacuum!

God does not set His true adrift on a sea of spiritual anarchy!

God sets His truth in His church, in the possession of His apostles to safeguard, to ensure it is not added to, or taken away from, or changed in any way!

And to teach the same truth to all nations and all ages!

Verified by scripture:

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost!

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints!

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness!
(all scripture not 66 books alone)

Must be instructed in the faith:

Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations…

Jn 29:21-23 as the father sent me, so I send you. (Same mission, power, and authority to teach all nations)

Lk 10:16 He who hears you, (His apostles) hear me.

Jn 13:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 8:32 You (the apostles) shall know the truth; and the truth shall make you free.

Jn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
(His apostles)


The whole purpose for the church of Jesus Christ is to teach all nations the truths revealed by Christ and the salvation of souls!

 

[Philip James]

The very best thing I can say regarding the above, is that it is inventive.

Inventive? My doctrine is not my own, but that of my brothers and sisters for 2000 years.. St. Ignatius' letters make that clear..

Where is the apostolic community that teaches otherwise?

Pax et Bonum

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[Philip James]

I do not believe that transubstantiation was practiced by the apostolic church. That one student among thousands in the next generation happened to teach it, and it become 'a thing', is testament to the rapidity with which heresy entered among God's people.

I dont care if you call it transubstantiation or the mystical Body and Blood of Christ...
That Christ is manifestly present in the Eucharist is taught everywhere by all the apostolic communities they established..

That which is held by all, everywhere, is clearly the teaching of the apostles..

Pax et Bonum

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!