Close! Horseshoes, Hand Grenades, Cornhole, Golf and the parables.

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Mr E

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While this conversation was about one of the parables Jesus taught- specifically that key parable of the seeds/sower, since it was among those he explained in detail... this brought up an interesting point that received no comments.

But if we were playing a game of lawn darts--- this is about as close to catching one in the eye as you can get without actually seeing it coming and ducking out of the way.

Has anyone besides @ScottA ever thought in terms of man being 'a parable of God?'

You have not explained the parable, nor all parables, nor the key to understanding them.

Jesus explained the parable of the sower, thus it needs no further explanation. That is not the point, nor the subject of His question about understanding "all" parables. And no, He wasn't just flustered with their inability to understand.

The point rather and the subject of His statement was "all", which gave the scope of all that is included. In other words, He wasn't just speaking of "all" thirty-some classic parables, but of "all" in the context of "all" since the beginning...as that is where they "all" began--as man was a parable of God (in His image). "Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."
 

Mr E

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Man (adam, with a little "a") is the same Hebrew word that is used for that concept Jesus taught about the soil. English translators do us all a disservice by intermingling the same English words that Genesis uses, with distinctions.

Earth- erets-- meaning 'all the soil' that covers the Earth.

Land- yabbashah- meaning, the dry ground that was separated from the waters. Then we read that he called this 'dry ground' (yabbashah-erets. (earth). You might think it's all a distinction without a difference....

But then>>>

Ground- what was called earth (erets/soil), land (erets/soil) and ground (yabbashah/dry land/etets) is suddenly given a different Hebrew name--- adamah, which in English is also translated simply as ground, but is used interchangably as both man and land/soil.

Then, this generic word for land/soil/man is used as a proper name for a specific man (Adam). The same word used for man in general, as in all humankind in the same way that those words are used in general to tie earth, land, ground together-- as soil... It's all the same concept as Jesus explained when he went into detail with his disciples regarding that parable of the sower, the seed and the soil. And in providing these associations he taught to use the information to understand all things.

“I will open my mouth in parables,
I will announce what has been hidden from the foundation of the world"
(Ps 78, Is 6)

Sowing the physical seed in physical soil, is associated directly with the idea of the sowing of the spirit (of God) in man (adamah).

The text reads>>>>

Elohim created adam/humankind as an image/idol,
an idol of elohim they were made,
male and female they were made.



Is Genesis a parable? Well, it is a story. It's a creation story as Moses knew it. Jesus seems to understand it in a different, spiritual light, rather than an historical account. With his parable he takes us right back to the foundation of the world, with those hidden ideas he is putting forward.
 

ScottA

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Man (adam, with a little "a") is the same Hebrew word that is used for that concept Jesus taught about the soil. English translators do us all a disservice by intermingling the same English words that Genesis uses, with distinctions.

Earth- erets-- meaning 'all the soil' that covers the Earth.

Land- yabbashah- meaning, the dry ground that was separated from the waters. Then we read that he called this 'dry ground' (yabbashah-erets. (earth). You might think it's all a distinction without a difference....

But then>>>

Ground- what was called earth (erets/soil), land (erets/soil) and ground (yabbashah/dry land/etets) is suddenly given a different Hebrew name--- adamah, which in English is also translated simply as ground, but is used interchangably as both man and land/soil.

Then, this generic word for land/soil/man is used as a proper name for a specific man (Adam). The same word used for man in general, as in all humankind in the same way that those words are used in general to tie earth, land, ground together-- as soil... It's all the same concept as Jesus explained when he went into detail with his disciples regarding that parable of the sower, the seed and the soil. And in providing these associations he taught to use the information to understand all things.

“I will open my mouth in parables,
I will announce what has been hidden from the foundation of the world"
(Ps 78, Is 6)

Sowing the physical seed in physical soil, is associated directly with the idea of the sowing of the spirit (of God) in man (adamah).

The text reads>>>>

Elohim created adam/humankind as an image/idol,
an idol of elohim they were made,
male and female they were made.



Is Genesis a parable? Well, it is a story. It's a creation story as Moses knew it. Jesus seems to understand it in a different, spiritual light, rather than an historical account. With his parable he takes us right back to the foundation of the world, with those hidden ideas he is putting forward.

As all matter is made up of light and energy, the creation story basically is a manifestation (as a revelation or "image") by the power of God...just as He said, "Let there be light!"
 

Mr E

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“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

The Father is spirit. The image of the Father is the son. Spirit, born of the spirit.

The image of the son of God is the son of man. Spirit above, flesh below. And because God (the Father) so loved the (fallen) world (below) He sent His only begotten son, that any who believe in Him should not perish, but have life everlasting.

If you want to call the creation story a parable, the idea isn't entirely wrong... it's on the right track. Like an allegory, it's a story with an implication. It implies that there is 'more to the story' than what meets the eye. That there is meaning you'll miss if you only consider the story on one level. So what is 'the rest of the story?'
 
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Mr E

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He taught-- “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. “Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.

The Father is the vineyard owner (vinedresser/vinekeeper/gardener).
The Christ (Jesus) is the vine.
You (we) are the branches.

In terms of seeds and plants and fruit and seasons you might understand it in that context. But that's just a way of looking at it. We can all understand that a seed is planted, grows, flowers and produces fruit that has seed in it. The first fruits of a growing season are set aside and preserved so that no matter what disaster may come later, there are seeds set apart to begin again. Only a fool sets nothing aside, and instead consumes everything he grows thinking "I'll set some seed aside later for next year." Then locusts come and destroy his crop, or hail strikes the plants down before they even flower, or floods wash everything away and he has nothing stored away for spring planting and a new season. He is ruined.

With seeds and such we understand the natural concept of seasons. We understand easily because we see it with our own eyes. It's not sad, or bad to think that from the very moment those seeds were set in soil it was for one purpose only-- that is, with the hope and expectation that they will produce fruit and also- within that idea the greater purpose is that it might be good fruit, pleasing, nourishing, satisfying and so on-- because from the outset it was grown for consumption. Not shocking when we think about grapes, for example. The grapes are grown because the Vineyard Owner knows that after the growing season, the grapes will be harvested, gathered, washed, and crushed and from that crushing the blood of the grape will flow freely and from that, another process that produces good wine. That wine and the hope that it will be good is the very reason that the seeds were planted in the earth.

All of this is natural and expected and good because it is by design and as intended by the Creator. It all becomes unsettling when we apply the key that was given and that parable he explained to mean that the seed was the word and the soil was man. In another parable he puts the same idea in terms of this vine that has grown in soil and produced many branches, some that produce fruit and some do not. The ones that produce fruit are pruned so they become even more productive, the ones that produce no fruit are cut off entirely and destroyed.

This is figurative language, not intended to explicitly detail how everything works. It's used to convey an idea of how things work. Yet, scripture is consistent in this regard. When scripture tells us that we come from the soil, in essence that we physically come from the earth-- from dirt- Adam, Jesus doesn't contradict the idea... When he explains the parable, it's clear- we are the soil that he describes. We are the soil in the vineyard. It's humbling. Yet the seed and the soil alike though they are common- there is something miraculous that occurs and this is something we call LIFE.
 
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Mr E

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@Keturah- this is a concept you might grasp more easily than many...

The "image" of things above, are seen below. Those things below are not the same, but a likeness, or a representation or reflection of the reality above and that reality is spiritual, not physical in nature. Every spiritual principle, or concept, or element-- is represented below in a physical sense. Jesus taught us how to make many of these associations, as did the prophets before him. I think it's almost a lost art.

And it's an idea that so many simply dismiss out of hand. They get so focused on everything here below, they forget entirely the principles that he taught regarding how to understand these things. They forget this key he gave us. They stare at shadows and think they understand things they've never actually seen.... not the fullness of them.

 
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Keturah

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1 CORINTHIANS CHAPTER 13

10 But when that which is PERFECT is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a GLASS, DARKLY; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Amen !
 
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ScottA

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So what is 'the rest of the story?'

The rest of the story comes in full when the current story ends. Leading up to that "all truth" is promised by Christ via the Holy Spirit. But the climate on the ground is "delusion" and great apostacy (also foretold) the result of the believing of a "lie" which began with the anti-Christ spirit which was already at work at the time of Christ.

What then shall we hear, the teachings of men, or the Holy Spirit which comes from within rather than from without?

So then, the rest of the story is "all truth" and the age to come, which even began before the "lie" was born, and thus restrained. But the End has come and the world is now judged.
 

Mr E

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The rest of the story comes in full when the current story ends.

I like that.... -raises a question perhaps-

Did this current story begin when a previous story ended? History is indeed His story....

I like music..... I love lyrics.

 
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ScottA

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I like that.... -raises a question perhaps-

Did this current story begin when a previous story ended? History is indeed His story....

I like music..... I love lyrics.


Yes and No. ;)

The current story did indeed begin when the previous story ended...but it also ended...i.e. before the foundation of the world (as it were), which is to say, this world is but a revelation of things that both were and are. The man of sin is revealed.
 

Mr E

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At the end of this story, a new story will begin. At the end of this age, a new age will begin.

Circles and cycles and seasons-- it's the way He designed it, and He doesn't violate His design.

The Kingdom of Heaven is like..... it's like a garden. -it's like a seed planted in a garden. -it's like fruit from a tree, with seeds from the fruit planted in a garden, watered from below, watered from above, producing an increase year by year, season after season, age unto age.

And when one age ends, a harvest... and from the firstfruits of that harvest seed is taken and preserved so that in the new age there will be a new planting and a new crop and LIFE will go on as it has from the moment the Light shone upon the soil and the first seed sprouted.
 

Mr E

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God is spirit.

The son of God is spirit.

Spirit gives birth to spirit.

The son is made in the image of his Father, he comes from His seed. Are you able to see at all, what Jesus was talking about? When he taught about the seed and the way things work? He said-- understand that parable, to understand the rest, right back to the foundation of the world. And he said-- 'he who has seen me, has seen the Father' because he knew where he had come from. Where he had come from and where he was going (returning to)- but he wasn't speaking of his physical body. Spirit. The son of God is the invisible image of the invisible Father and this I think is where a lot of folks miss the connection. The son is spirit. It's the spirit son of God that leaves his heavenly home and descends upon a son of man, anointing him-- Christ.

And all things above are reflected below-- that spirit son of God above dwells temporarily in an earthly "tent" and the son of man- the anointed one, is the image of that one above. It's right there in the story, right at the beginning of it, if only you can grasp it.

That first son was sent. He descended upon a man. Upon Adam.
 

Mr E

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I love this old poem.... it has the feel of Pilgrim's Progress.

When, a quite little child, I was dwelling
In the House of my Father’s Kingdom,

And in the wealth and the glories
Of my Up-bringers I was delighting,

From the East, our Home, my Parents
Forth-sent me with journey-provision.

Indeed from the wealth of our Treasure,
They bound up for me a load.

Large was it, yet was it so light
That all alone I could bear it.
 

Wrangler

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Has anyone besides @ScottA ever thought in terms of man being 'a parable of God?'
No. Law of Identity: A parable is a thing, a story. A man is not a story but a person.

Being "made in God's image" implies 3 things:
  1. We have the superficial appearance of being god-like;
  2. We are not God;
  3. We were Created for a divine and holy purpose; namely, to choose to serve God.
Although understanding the angel rebellion in heaven remains unrevealed, aka above our pay grade. We don't know if Angels or any other Beings were given moral agency. Perhaps the Angels fooled themselves into thinking they were carrying out God's will (WHAT) by rebelling (against his HOW, an ancient pre-cursor of The Three Laws of Isaac Asimov from 1942 or the threat from AI today.

Although man has a story, history, we are not a story.
 

Mr E

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No. Law of Identity: A parable is a thing, a story. A man is not a story but a person.

Being "made in God's image" implies 3 things:
  1. We have the superficial appearance of being god-like;
  2. We are not God;
  3. We were Created for a divine and holy purpose; namely, to choose to serve God.
Although understanding the angel rebellion in heaven remains unrevealed, aka above our pay grade. We don't know if Angels or any other Beings were given moral agency. Perhaps the Angels fooled themselves into thinking they were carrying out God's will (WHAT) by rebelling (against his HOW, an ancient pre-cursor of The Three Laws of Isaac Asimov from 1942 or the threat from AI today.

Although man has a story, history, we are not a story.

Maybe keep your powder dry..... pay grade and all...
 

Mr E

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I love this old poem.... it has the feel of Pilgrim's Progress.

When, a quite little child, I was dwelling
In the House of my Father’s Kingdom,

And in the wealth and the glories
Of my Up-bringers I was delighting,

From the East, our Home, my Parents
Forth-sent me with journey-provision.

Indeed from the wealth of our Treasure,
They bound up for me a load.

Large was it, yet was it so light
That all alone I could bear it.

Anyone familiar with it? It's called the Hymn of the Pearl

Gold from the Land of Beth-Ellaya,
Silver from Gazak the Great,

Chalcedonies of India,
Iris-hued [Opals?] from Kãshan.

They girt me with Adamant [also]
That hath power to cut even iron.

My Glorious Robe they took off me
Which in their love they had wrought me,

And my Purple Mantle [also]
Which was woven to match with my stature.

And with me They [then] made a compact;
In my heart wrote it, not to forget it:

"If thou goest down into Egypt,
And thence thou bring’st the one Pearl –

"[The Pearl] that lies in the Sea,
Hard by the loud-breathing Serpent –

"[Then] shalt Thou put on thy Robe
And thy Mantle that goeth upon it,

"And with thy Brother, Our Second,
Shalt thou be Heir in our Kingdom."
 

Mr E

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He left his home in glory, his heavenly abode and in all humility he became poor and entirely common, putting on human flesh in place of those royal robes in that spiritual sense, where robes are as rays of light.

Into the poverty of human depravity he descended-- to do the will of his Father, in obedience he came.

Like a dove-- an envoy of Peace, with a message of Love and an invitation to Relationship.
 
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