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Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by twinc, Dec 10, 2017.

  1. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    This has nothing to do with "proving a negative".
    YOU made a statement Christ - and I asked you to provide the Scriptural proof for it:
    "If there was a single sinless person before Christ, we don't need Christ."

    If you can't prove your statement - then maybe you shouldn't make these kinds of statements . . .
     
  2. twinc

    twinc Well-Known Member

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    it seems many are stuck with how can this be and cannot like Mary accept and allow with a 'let it be' according to your word imho - twinc
     
  3. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    Yup.
    In their anti-Catholic zeal, they have actually become "Mary-Phobic".
     
  4. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Or, just don't happen to agree. :)
     
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  5. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

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    It's not even a matter of simple "disagreement". It'a a complete and total abdication of logic.

    If you are going to profess that Jesus is God - and Mary is His Mother - then you have to some to the conclusion that she gave birth to God.
    If you "disagree" that she did - then you ALSO must "disagree" that Jesus is God - and that heresy is another kettle of fish . . .
     
  6. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Well, when you say it like that..
    But I happen to believe that Jesus was indeed God's seed..but also had the humanity of Mary while He walked here. To me, He had to have the potential to sin, as she did, as we all do....the GREAT salvation hangs on the truth that Adam sinned and the Last Perfect Adam overcame sin....for us all.
    To be truthful BOL, most of these kind of discussions I don't understand,
    and I wouldn't even dare to say 'who has sinned'...not my business...
    I do have to take on board @bbyrd009 argument that if Mary was perfect before birthing Jesus , then she must have been the only one ever!
    Jesus came to take our punishment inherited through Adam....Jesus came to take that punishment for us all...including Mary.
    If Mary could attain the perfection that no one ever had, not even John The Baptist..no one...they bbyrd009 has a good point...why on earth Did God send ( Come in ) Jesus!! ?

    I have no idea...as I say, most of it goes over my head, too complicated for me to work out.
     
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  7. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    welcome to Roman Catholicism lol
     
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  8. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    a child can grasp this, and it takes much ignorance of Scripture to hold this belief. Just shoot one of them v to BoL--like many, many ppl have already done, i just did back a page or so ago, myself--and watch what he does with it, and see

    "all have sinned, and come short of God's glory."
     
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  9. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    No, Mary did not give birth to God. Mary gave birth to the God/Man, Jesus Christ.

    Stranger
     
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  10. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    No. Mary is the Mother of God not some guy possessed by God
     
  11. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    That is a lie. Mary is not the mother of God. God has no mother.

    Did God exist before Mary? Did the Son exist before Mary?

    Stranger
     
  12. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    This is statement is blasphemy - a flat denial of the divinity of Christ. Is Jesus God? Is Mary his mother?
     
  13. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    Why didn't you answer the questions. Did God exist before Mary? Did the Son exist before Mary?

    As to your questions, yes, Jesus is Divine, the God/Man. The Son made flesh. Yes, Mary is the mother of the God/Man, Jesus Christ.

    Now answer mine.

    Stranger
     
  14. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    We’ve already had this discussion. You are under the delusion that Jesus is a new creation based on his birth. I have already supplied verses refuting your false belief - scroll back
     
  15. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    You have supplied nothing. The Son as a Man is a new creation. Again, why don't you answer my questions. Did God exist before Mary? Did the Son exist before Mary?

    Stranger
     
  16. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    How many times do you want me to answer your questions? This is your tired modus operandi, once again - making simplistic, false statements, demanding answers, and then, after dismissing all answers , continuing to demand answers that support your one track minded falsehoods.

    I am not your scripture monkey, Strange. If you are really interested in anything more than your own belligerence, scroll back - if not, don’t.
     
  17. pia

    pia Well-Known Member

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    @"ByGrace" If Jesus had not been human and able to sin, His redemption could have never been 'legal'...As He was human and without sin, when He was 30 or so, God The Father gave Him the ability to do through the Holy Spirit.......He could have never become the last Adam, not the Son of Man on the throne next to God, if He had been only God...It's a silly argument from some, as surely they have enough sense to see, that if that was all God had to do, he would have done it much much sooner...
     
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  18. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    Jesus was not human and transformed into God - this is called Adoptionism and it was reconized as a heresy in the early church. Christianity teaches that Jesus was born fully human and fully God
     
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  19. pia

    pia Well-Known Member

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    @aspen I didn't say He was transformed into God
     
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  20. Richard_oti

    Richard_oti Well-Known Member

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    I am not going to try and convince you. We are both mature and have our respective beliefs. There is no need for either of us to try to convince one another, nor is it likely that either of us would change. However to briefly answer you, since you took the time to write:

    Galatians also states: For each man shall bear his own burden.

    Is "burden" in v 2 and 5 physical, spiritual or both. Or is it to lift one another up, yet, we shall still bear our own burden(s).

    Is there anything in haTorah that specifically states to bear one another's burdens? If not, then it is something that was taught through Christ, an example of "love", that goes beyond the mere "letter" of the law.

    In Romans, Paul is speaking of haTorah, and serving that which was/is written. So no, I don't see Paul as quite having "equated" them.

    For myself, and from my perspective I would ask: What or Whom was / is the Light of Creation. The very first of creation, spoken into being by the very "Word" of YHVH.

    In the beginning was the "Word" ...

    Of which, from my perspective, John loosely patterns the beginning of his Gospel after the "Beginning".

    2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.

    For myself, I believe Jesus was / is the first of all creation, the "Light", as he himself said, "I am the light of the world".

    John 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Do not hold me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God."

    1 Cor 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power. ... 27 For, He put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he saith, All things are put in subjection, it is evident that he is excepted who did subject all things unto him. 28 And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all.


    For contrast:

    Mark 1:24 "What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are-the Holy One of God!"

    Luke 4:34 "Ha! What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are-the Holy One of God!"


    Which is confirmed:

    John 6:69 We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God. [WH manuscript]
     
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