Coincidences? Or Time to WATCH be READY for the Day and Hour Is Near

[The Light]

Those who have "the testimony of Jesus Christ" ARE... Christ's Church! Amazing that you would just bypass that phrase.

I didn't bypass that phrase. If you want to call them the Church, that's fine as there is one fold and one shepherd.

John 10
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

In reality though, the mostly Gentile Church will already be in heaven before the seals are opened. Yes, there are saints that will have the testimony of Jesus Christ during the tribulation, and we can certainly call them the Church. Most of them will be of the seed of the woman as the final week is about the people of Daniel. It seems God has made it a point not to mention the word Church all through the final week. That seems to be so there would be no confusion that the Church will already be in heaven so that we would understand that the rapture before tribulation, when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, has already occurred.

 

[brightfame52]

The last day being talked about in Daniel 12 is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal before the wrath of God. That will be a known date.

1 Thes 5
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

I disagree with your understanding of the matter, however we will see.

 

[Davy]

I didn't bypass that phrase. If you want to call them the Church, that's fine as there is one fold and one shepherd.

John 10
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

In reality though, the mostly Gentile Church will already be in heaven before the seals are opened. Yes, there are saints that will have the testimony of Jesus Christ during the tribulation, and we can certainly call them the Church. Most of them will be of the seed of the woman as the final week is about the people of Daniel. It seems God has made it a point not to mention the word Church all through the final week. That seems to be so there would be no confusion that the Church will already be in heaven so that we would understand that the rapture before tribulation, when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, has already occurred.

Why are you trying to quote from John 10 when the subject is that Revelation 12:17 verse about Christ's Church, and Lucifer's coming attack upon it for the "great tribulation". Are you going to tell me you missed reading about that 'time, times, and half a time' (i.e., the 1260 days of Rev.11, and 42 months of Rev.13)? Haven't you even studied about that timing back in the Book of Daniel which also contains endtime warnings for Christ's Church?

And NO... there is NO 'pre-trib rapture' written of in God's Word!

That pre-trib rapture idea is a theory created in 1830's Great Britain by John Darby. Prior to that the Christian Church had always held to a Post-tribulation coming by Christ Jesus and gathering of His Church. READ the Matthew 24:27-31 Scripture, Jesus' Own Words.

Jesus is coming AFTER... the tribulation like He said, and it is then when He will send His angels to gather His elect 'faithful' Church that waited for Him.

 

[David in NJ]

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Do you not understand that the Word says that we can escape ALL THESE THINGS and stand before the Son of Man?


The saints are the seed of the woman. Can you not read and understand what the Word says?
Rev 12
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Now you got it. It is only after the sixth seal is opened that we begin to SEE His second coming. When He comes for the Church only those raptured will see Him. When He comes at the 6th seal all eyes will see Him and He will remain in the clouds and send His angels to gather the elect. When He comes for the Church the Lord Himself will come. How is it that you do not understand what is clearly written?

But watch yourselves, or your hearts will be weighed down by dissipation, drunkenness, and the worries of life—and that day will spring upon you suddenly like a snare.
For it will come upon all who dwell on the face of all the earth.
So keep watch at all times, and pray that you may have the strength to escape all that is about to happen and to stand before the Son of Man.”

How do Believers escape 'all these things' = 1 Cor 10:6-13

Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.” Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

How do believers escape all these things = Revelation

a.) He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”

b.) He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.” ’

c.) To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives it.” ’

d.) But hold fast what you have till I come. And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—

e.) He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

f.) He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.

g.) To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

 

[The Light]

But watch yourselves, or your hearts will be weighed down by dissipation, drunkenness, and the worries of life—and that day will spring upon you suddenly like a snare.
For it will come upon all who dwell on the face of all the earth.
So keep watch at all times, and pray that you may have the strength to escape all that is about to happen and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

That you may be accounted worthy to escape ALL THESE THINGS and STAND BEFORE THE SON OF MAN.

That will be in heaven.

How do believers escape all these things = Revelation

a.) He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”

b.) He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.” ’

c.) To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives it.” ’

d.) But hold fast what you have till I come. And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—

e.) He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

f.) He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.

g.) To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

You missed something, but I'll clear it up for you.

Rev 3
7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

 

[David in NJ]

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

That you may be accounted worthy to escape ALL THESE THINGS and STAND BEFORE THE SON OF MAN.

That will be in heaven.


You missed something, but I'll clear it up for you.

Rev 3
7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

i am glad you mentioned the 'open door' mentioned to the Philadelphia church

This also is a infamous pre-tib rapture claim to fame.
But it is not!
The Scripture tells us all about this 'open door' and when it closes.

 

[David in NJ]

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

That you may be accounted worthy to escape ALL THESE THINGS and STAND BEFORE THE SON OF MAN.

That will be in heaven.


You missed something, but I'll clear it up for you.

Rev 3
7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

My Heavenly Mother is Jewish.
What about yours???

 

[The Light]

i am glad you mentioned the 'open door' mentioned to the Philadelphia church

This also is a infamous pre-tib rapture claim to fame.
But it is not!
The Scripture tells us all about this 'open door' and when it closes.

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Yeah. I get it. Maybe if we ignore it, it will go away.

 

[David in NJ]

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Yeah. I get it. Maybe if we ignore it, it will go away.

You mean ignore scripture that you keep doing like these that REBUKE the Lie of pre-trib:

And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! Look, your house is left to you desolate.
For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.

At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up.
There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time.

But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.
(JESUS says - but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven.”

And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.
Then the wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness will shine like the stars forever and ever.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord,
that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.

 

[The Light]

Why are you trying to quote from John 10

Trying? There is no trying. There is only doing and not doing and I did.

when the subject is that Revelation 12:17 verse about Christ's Church, and Lucifer's coming attack upon it for the "great tribulation". Are you going to tell me you missed reading about that 'time, times, and half a time' (i.e., the 1260 days of Rev.11, and 42 months of Rev.13)? Haven't you even studied about that timing back in the Book of Daniel which also contains endtime warnings for Christ's Church?

You are confused about who the Lucifer is. Lucifer is neither the beast of the earth nor the beast of the sea. Lucifer is not in the bottomless pit. Where are you learning this nonsense?

And NO... there is NO 'pre-trib rapture' written of in God's Word!

The fact that you don't understand that the Lord Himself will come for His Church before the seals are opened, does not change the fact that He will.

That pre-trib rapture idea is a theory created in 1830's Great Britain by John Darby. Prior to that the Christian Church had always held to a Post-tribulation coming by Christ Jesus and gathering of His Church. READ the Matthew 24:27-31 Scripture, Jesus' Own Words.

I never read a single thing that Darby wrote. The fact that I came to the same conclusion that he did, (that the Lord Himself will come for His Church before the tribulation of those days) lets me know that he is reading the Bible that I am.

I have a huge advantage that Darby didn't have. He was able to come to this conclusion when there was no nation of Israel and hadn't been for 1800 or so years. He told it like the Word says, despite there being not one shred of evidence that Israel would be reborn, outside of the written Word of God. Of course the written Word of God will not fail, so I guess he was not at risk of being wrong.

Jesus is coming AFTER... the tribulation like He said, and it is then when He will send His angels to gather His elect 'faithful' Church that waited for Him.

Hey, nice. You got part of one. Jesus does come after the tribulation. Good for you. He's just not coming for the Church as they are already in heaven before the tribulation of those days begins.

 

[Truth7t7]

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

That you may be accounted worthy to escape ALL THESE THINGS and STAND BEFORE THE SON OF MAN.

That will be in heaven.


You missed something, but I'll clear it up for you.

Rev 3
7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

No Pre-Trib Rapture Is Seen

 

[Truth7t7]

Hey, nice. You got part of one. Jesus does come after the tribulation. Good for you. He's just not coming for the Church as they are already in heaven before the tribulation of those days begins.

The persecuted church for the name of Jesus Christ will be on earth to be eyewitnesses of the second coming, they will lift their heads up and see the second coming, read it again and again

Luke 21:12 & 26-28KJV
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

[The Light]

The persecuted church for the name of Jesus Christ will be on earth to be eyewitnesses of the second coming, they will lift their heads up and see the second coming, read it again and again

The persecuted Church? Yeah, no doubt there will be plenty of foolish virgins around to be persecuted. The wise, that have understanding, will not be here as they are watching and waiting for the bridegroom.

Luke 21:12 & 26-28KJV
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

This is talking about the twelve tribes. The Church is already in heaven when this occurs.

Luke 21
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

You left out the best part. Some will be worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass and stand before the Son of Man.
Why so many ignore the best part I cannot comprehend. It can only come down to a lack of understanding.
Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

[The Light]

No Pre-Trib Rapture Is Seen

That is apparent. Why you are unable to see the obvious is the mystery.

 

[The Light]

You mean ignore scripture that you keep doing like these that REBUKE the Lie of pre-trib:

And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! Look, your house is left to you desolate.
For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.

At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up.
There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time.

But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.
(JESUS says - but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven.”

And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.
Then the wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness will shine like the stars forever and ever.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord,
that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.

You act like I don't believe these things. You quote a few verses that of course have to be true and then claim you are right. I believe these things also, so your argument is TOTALLY without merit.

You lack understanding as to what you are reading.

When the Word says that the LORD HIMSELF will come, that's what it means. When the Word says that HE WILL SEND HIS ANGELS, that's what it means. When the Words says it will be LIKE THE DAYS OF NOAH, that what it means. When the Word says it will be LIKE THE DAYS OF LOT, that what it means. When the Word says He will come at the TRUMP OF GOD, thats what it means. When the Words says he will come at the LAST TRUMP, that's what it means.

I'm not sure why so many lack understanding and cannot accept the written Word of God., If you had understanding you would know that the Lord is coming soon as in very, very soon.

 

[David in NJ]

You act like I don't believe these things. You quote a few verses that of course have to be true and then claim you are right. I believe these things also, so your argument is TOTALLY without merit.

You lack understanding as to what you are reading.

When the Word says that the LORD HIMSELF will come, that's what it means. When the Word says that HE WILL SEND HIS ANGELS, that's what it means. When the Words says it will be LIKE THE DAYS OF NOAH, that what it means. When the Word says it will be LIKE THE DAYS OF LOT, that what it means. When the Word says He will come at the TRUMP OF GOD, thats what it means. When the Words says he will come at the LAST TRUMP, that's what it means.

I'm not sure why so many lack understanding and cannot accept the written Word of God., If you had understanding you would know that the Lord is coming soon as in very, very soon.

If you believe them to be Truth then you are free from the error/lie of pre-trib.

The scriptures in Post 109 directly refute/rebuke/condemn pre-trib rapture.

 

[Davy]

Trying? There is no trying. There is only doing and not doing and I did.

You are confused about who the Lucifer is. Lucifer is neither the beast of the earth nor the beast of the sea. Lucifer is not in the bottomless pit. Where are you learning this nonsense?

l am not at all confused about who Lucifer is. And Lucifer is OVER the bottomless pit per Revelation 9, so looks like you missed that. Do you always put your false assumptions nonsense into what others say?? You are OUTSIDE of God's Word with what you are saying.

Rev 9:11
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
KJV

Does that above saying anything... about Lucifer being 'locked' in that bottomless pit? NO, it does not. Instead, it reveals he is "the angel of the bottomless pit", and that is pointing that he rules over that pit. So per Rev.20 when Jesus returns and Lucifer is... locked in his pit prison, do you actually believe that 'pit' belongs to God and that He is Ruler over it? No, that pit is about the abode of 'hell' which is of God, because that abode of the wicked called 'hell' is to be cast into the future "lake of fire" after Christ's future "thousand years" reign.

The fact that you don't understand that the Lord Himself will come for His Church before the seals are opened, does not change the fact that He will.

I never read a single thing that Darby wrote.

THAT EXPLAINS YOUR CONFUSION.

Why don't go buy another one of Tim LaHayes false Pre-trib rapture books! There's what, 13 of them in a series? Go buy some of his movies too while you're at it, or any other pre-trib author or thing that is TOTALLY OUTSIDE OF GOD'S WRITTEN WORD.

No wonder you are so confused and my speaking of and quoting from Bible Scripture sounds so FOREIGN TO YOU.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Hosea 6
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

2 Peter 3
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Coincidence #1
One day is as a thousand years with the Lord and a thousand years is as a day. If Jesus died in AD 30 and we added two thousand years to that, he could come in the year 2030. The pretribulation rapture will happen at least 7 years before the second advent. Could Jesus come in the year 2023? Is the day and the hour of His coming for His bride at hand?

No one day with the lord is not a thousand years!

This is a metaphor to describe teh patience and longsuffering of God.

And Hosea 6 is for Israel. this describes the last three days of teh tribulation when the veil is removed from Israel, they finally see Jesus is their Messiah and cry out "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord" thus causing Jesus to return to earth.

 

[The Light]

If you believe them to be Truth then you are free from the error/lie of pre-trib.

The scriptures in Post 109 directly refute/rebuke/condemn pre-trib rapture.

You lack understanding as to what you are reading.

When the Word says that the LORD HIMSELF will come, that's what it means. When the Word says that HE WILL SEND HIS ANGELS, that's what it means. When the Words says it will be LIKE THE DAYS OF NOAH, that what it means. When the Word says it will be LIKE THE DAYS OF LOT, that what it means. When the Word says He will come at the TRUMP OF GOD, thats what it means. When the Words says he will come at the LAST TRUMP, that's what it means.

I'm not sure why so many lack understanding and cannot accept the written Word of God., If you had understanding you would know that the Lord is coming soon as in very, very soon.

 

[David in NJ]

You lack understanding as to what you are reading.

When the Word says that the LORD HIMSELF will come, that's what it means. When the Word says that HE WILL SEND HIS ANGELS, that's what it means. When the Words says it will be LIKE THE DAYS OF NOAH, that what it means. When the Word says it will be LIKE THE DAYS OF LOT, that what it means. When the Word says He will come at the TRUMP OF GOD, thats what it means. When the Words says he will come at the LAST TRUMP, that's what it means.

I'm not sure why so many lack understanding and cannot accept the written Word of God., If you had understanding you would know that the Lord is coming soon as in very, very soon.

Jesus says HE is coming immediately after the tribulation of those days = you are to believe Him.

Jesus says the Gospel will be preached in all the world and then and only then will HE Come = believe what HE says.

the OT Prophets speak against the lie of pre-trib rapture = you should believe them.

the Apostles speak against pre-trib rapture = you are to believe their words.

The error of pre-trib always adds to God's words what HE did not say and takes away from His words what HE did say.

The Holy Spirit of Truth does not do that - God is not the author of confusion.

Why are you driven to deny the words of Christ, the OT Prophets and the Apostles?