It's like that still today, The SDA and Protestants are envious and filled with anger over the Gospel Sabbath of Jesus' Day of Resurrection, and the Roman Catholics with blaspheming.
Colossians 2:14-16 - The Law That Was Against Us
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It's like that still today, The SDA and Protestants are envious and filled with anger over the Gospel Sabbath of Jesus' Day of Resurrection, and the Roman Catholics with blaspheming.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
We're determining what's *biblical." If a billion people want to follow Mohammad, I'm still only concerned about what Paul taught.
You're distinguishing between general morality and covenant law. The Covenant of Law involved both, but it was all contained within a particular covenant, and were both equally required. The commandment to treat foreigners fairly was just as required as Sabbath Law observance. To distinguish between genders was just as important as offering sin offerings.
And yet, under covenant law, morality and attitude cannot be separated from the requirement to perform rituals and observances. Within the nation of Israel how can a Jew say that observing Sabbath is not a moral issue, is not a matter of love? If one refuses to obey any requirement under the Law, ritual or not, one is discarding love for God and is choosing to be immoral.
You're using a semantics that only confuses the issue. Of course the Sabbath was "God's day." And yet, in another sense, it was made not for God but for Man, because God had no need to rest--He only needed to rest from corrupt human works.
Man, being a sinner, had the need to put his corrupt works aside for one day each week to show that their religious observances could never be perfect until Christ cleansed them. Every week was a testimony to the fact Israel's work never achieved lasting rest. It was a repetitive observance to show that rest is never fully achieved apart from the work of Christ.
Jesus was saying he's Lord of the Sabbath to show that he was not himself under the Law. He presided over a Law that was given to sinful men in order to govern them. He was not as such governed by a Law he had made for them! He did not have to observe Sabbath law at all. He only did so to condescend to those who did not yet understand this.
It was the same thing with his Water Baptism. He did not need to be water baptized. But he did so to show his willingness to obey his Father even in things he did not need to do to cleanse himself. He had no sin, and thus did not need to be baptized. He only needed to do it because in doing it he was obedient to his Father, setting an example for Israel.
Paul in the NT took great pains to explain that nobody is under a Law that was cancelled due to the failure of Israel, God's covenant people. The Sabbath Day is thus *no longer holy.*
The Sabbath Day observance is related to the Law, and is not the same thing as God's sacred rest after His work of Creation. Sabbath Day observance was created in the fashion of God's 7th Day rest after Creation, as a reminder to Israel of Man's purpose to be like God in Creation. But Israel was not like God, and had to rest to show their dependence on God's mercy.
You're quoting OT Law, which has been supplanted by the New Covenant of Christ. We follow Christ--not the Law of Israel.
So you think God extended the Law to Gentile Christians, instead of reserving it only for Israel? That isn't NT teaching. Sorry.
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Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Isn't that what non Sabbath observers base their stand on... The silence of Commandment in the NT for Sabbath?
Lots of babies sitting in the pews or standing behind the pulpits, still babbling although they may have learned to walk years ago. What does that mean? Help us dear Lord!Not much of an answer--"A lot." You couldn't know much about Adventism or you'd be an Adventist. lol
I was converted from Southern Baptist at the age of 26. So I was not predisposed. I embraced Adventism with full self-volition and cognizance of what I was doing. It was like awakening from sleep for me. The book "National Sunday Law" by Jan Marcussen was what closed the deal for me. I don't think I really knew Jesus until 12 years later. Not very commendable, but fairly common, I've found. I've heard pastors say they weren't truly born again until they'd been in the ministry for years. Adventism comes in a quite neatly-wrapped package. And there is enough to occupy the mind that sometimes the heart lags behind. But God is patient. Oh, so patient.
I think I'm still going through stages of faith. Jon Paulien has a very interesting article about this. There's not really much that's particularly Adventist (Sabbath, etc.) about it.
Online Text:
Stages of Faith - Jon Paulien Ph.D.
PDF:
http://www.thebattleofarmageddon.com/stages_of_faith.pdf
Audio here:
https://oneclimbs.com/2015/08/13/audio-stages-of-faith-with-jon-paulien/
By the way, I'm sorry for being so disagreeable. I haven't been myself lately (or maybe I have, depending on how you look at it). In any case, no excuses.
I don't hate you; I hate sentimentality sold for Gospel Truth of the Scriptures (Old, and, New Testament).
Every word, absolutely true; every innuendo and implication, FALSE AS SATAN. Did not the snake speak the truth to Eve?
We're determining what is Scripture. If 3 billion people follow Christianity, you are still only concerned about what is papal teaching.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
No, your hatred is palpable, and you can't cover it up with cold reason. You need a spiritual renewal, brother, if you even know what that is? Most of your remarks are quips, designed to extend friction--not resolve differences or explain differences.
I know the difference between someone who is congenial and someone who is purely hostile. You are the latter. If you don't want to be viewed that way, or even disagree with me, please prove it by using a better tone. Snarkiness betrays a bad spirit.
Never seen anything like this before; never want to again. Sies!
That's the difference between you and me -- <<prove it -disagree with you- by using a better tone>>. First I don't know what it is to <prove disagree by using a better tone>.
Next, I am a bad spirit; cannot help it; you cannot make me a good spirit. That's why I oppose you and try my best to expose kindred spirits.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
If you're a "bad spirit," why are you here on a Christian forum?
The Sabbath the Lord's Day (as you have elsewhere stated yourself) was the 'normal thing' during the apostolic era, the taken for granted, the lived as the vogue, the 'in thing' -- from there the at FIRST GLANCE possible <<silence of Commandment in the NT for Sabbath>>. So <<non Sabbath observers>> have NOTHING they may <<base their stand on>> HAD THEY NOT SUCCEEDED IN STEALING THE BASES ON WHICH the New Testament SCRIPTURES base it's Sabbath on, namely the EVENT OF THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST FROM THE DEAD ON IT. (Never forget the whole Scripture is "resurrection FROM THE DEAD" which is a rear-mirror or view on the history of the making of the Sabbath Day of God, the coming up out of the Red Sea of the People of God ON IT.)
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
What is the Sabbath day?
What is the purpose of keeping the Sabbath day holy that God commanded it?
Why is it that the keeping of it is by way of having no work?
What does it mean by “the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God“?
What does Sabbath mean?
Mark 2:27 And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. 28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”
What did Jesus meant when He said it “the Sabbath was made for man”?
What did Jesus meant when He said “ and not man for the Sabbath”?
What did Jesus meant when He said “Therefore the son of man is also the lord of the Sabbath”? What did He say “Therefore” and “also”?
Perhaps those here could address the questions like @BarnyFife, @Backlit, @GerhardEbersoehn, the SDAs et al., anyone on the know.
Tong
R1609
What is the Sabbath day?
What is the purpose of keeping the Sabbath day holy that God commanded it?
Why is it that the keeping of it is by way of having no work?
What does it mean by “the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God“?
What does Sabbath mean?
Mark 2:27 And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. 28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”
What did Jesus meant when He said it “the Sabbath was made for man”?
What did Jesus meant when He said “ and not man for the Sabbath”?
What did Jesus meant when He said “Therefore the son of man is also the lord of the Sabbath”? What did He say “Therefore” and “also”?
Perhaps those here could address the questions like @BarnyFife, @Backlit, @GerhardEbersoehn, the SDAs et al., anyone on the know.
Tong
R1609
No, not GerhardEbersoehn[/USER]--not I. Sorry but I don't care to be burdened with another's problems. All I know is God gave me faith in His Word.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
If you don't believe in NT teaching, why are you on this Christian forum?
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