Colossians 2:14-16 - The Law That Was Against Us

[Randy Kluth]

But what you do matters because his works makes you, being 'not under the Law', righteous so you do not fall short of eternal life. I thank you Lord that I am not like that man under the Law.

I'm not sure I follow, but it seems you're suggesting that Christ makes us, who are not under the Law, righteous so that we inherit eternal life? If so, I agree--he makes us righteous by the gift of his Spirit so that we have eternal life. He gives us his Spirit when we concede to him the basis of our own righteousness, being determined to live by it.

But nobody is under the Law any longer, so I'm not sure who you're hoping you're not like? Those who had been under the Law, the Jews, were in a good place, being in covenant with God until Christ came to fulfill that Law in a new covenant. It's difficult to see where you're coming from?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Paul wrote the whole Letter to the Colossians <<His interest (having been) only in making it clear that (the Sabbath) was no longer a required law for Christians>> --- never seen a word of such interest of Paul. Not in Colossians, never elsewhere. I smell a rat ... a man .. Okkert, het jy jou privates gewas?!

Paul wrote the whole letter of Colossians to make it clear that those who claim to have private revelation are imposters. They want to put people under laws that aren't really from God. These laws make people feel good because it requires will power and restraint.

But Paul's point is that only the true word of God is able to change us--not human will power under self-made laws of restraint. If you don't, for example, work on a Sabbath because you love God and want to devote more prayer time to Him, you may indeed obtain virtue in this. If you enter into such a discipline out of faith, to please God by setting aside prayer time for Him, why wouldn't it please Him?

But if some think that by simply not working on Saturday that makes them a better Christian than those who don't cease from working on Saturdays, then he is entering into these disciplines not by faith. Rather, they are trying to enter into a legalistic form of discipline to bypass true righteousness and love, making themselves to be superior to those who do not follow their example.

Paul said that the Circumcision Party tried to get Gentile Christians to observe Circumcision likes Jews in order to boast in their own self-discipline. They wanted to believe that their getting Circumcised somehow made them superior to pagans. But only faith resulting in the love of Christ produces genuine righteousness.

There is no NT requirement that Christians observe the Sabbath. However, when trying to witness to Jews if you were a former Jew, it may be wise to observe Sabbath in the presence of unsaved Jews so as to not put them off before you get the chance to witness to them.

If you refrain from working on the Sabbath to devote more time for God, I should think God would be happy with that. But if you judge others who do not follow the same disciplines as you, I'm sure you won't be pleasing God.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Or, sometimes what happens with me, I click to post prematurely, leaving an unintelligable fragment for me to find and fix!

Yep, sometimes that's the case. Sometimes it's just an attempt to show that you don't feel any need to reply.

 

[BarneyFife]

You're not taking this Faith seriously and I have no patience with such an attitude. Welcome to the Block List.

How'd I get so lucky?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

You're not taking this Faith seriously and I have no patience with such an attitude. Welcome to the Block List.

Och how catastrophic!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Thanks. Welcome to the Block List. You do not take our Holy Faith seriously, and thus I have no patience for this nonsense anylonger.

<<our Holy Faith>> your Roman Catholics' -- NOT MINE!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I'm not sure I follow, but it seems you're suggesting that Christ makes us, who are not under the Law, righteous so that we inherit eternal life? If so, I agree--he makes us righteous by the gift of his Spirit so that we have eternal life. He gives us his Spirit when we concede to him the basis of our own righteousness, being determined to live by it.

But nobody is under the Law any longer, so I'm not sure who you're hoping you're not like? Those who had been under the Law, the Jews, were in a good place, being in covenant with God until Christ came to fulfill that Law in a new covenant. It's difficult to see where you're coming from?

You are living in your own fools' paradise - where there is no inkling of what God says in his written Word.

Romans 1

22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,


BECAUSE

3:

10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips: 14Whose mouth [is] full of cursing and bitterness: 15Their feet [are] swift to shed blood: 16Destruction and misery [are] in their ways: 17And the way of peace have they not known: 18There is no fear of God before their eyes.


BECAUSE

2:

12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13(For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law – of whom there are “NONE” – shall be justified. 14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained = FORBEDDEN= in the law, these, having not the law, are a law – CONDEMNING THEM – unto themselves: 15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, = DEATH = their conscience also bearing witness, – of DEATH – and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; ) 16In the day when God shall judge {5719} the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

 

[Brakelite]

There are many reasons why The New Testament did NOT tell Gentiles to keep the Sabbath Day. First, keeping the Sabbath Day is the sign of the covenant between God and the nation of Israel. Second, Paul teaches us that we are not under law but under grace. And finally, Paul tells us not to allow anyone to judge us based on the fact that we DON'T keep the Sabbath day. Get it?

Get it totally. A desperation to defend the indefensible. I'll take your post and offer you another reason why none of the writers of the NT specifically taught Sabbath observance. They didn't need to. Why? Because there was no controversy among either converted Jew or gentile, not even with the unconverted Jews who were horrified that the new faith didn't teach circumcision... Hence the controversy... But not once, ever, castigated anyone for not honoring the Sabbath. The Christians had no issue with Sabbath keeping... It was natural to continue to obey God's Commandments. Unlike today's examples, no-one then became a Christian them argued whether it was necessary to obey God. It simply wasn't an issue. A prime example of that, to follow your very own reasoning, and agreeing with your statement above that nowhere in the NT did anyone tell gentiles to observe the Sabbath, was the fact they didn't need to. The gentiles already knew about the Sabbath. For goodness sake, the Sabbath was well known as a mark of identification for Israel throughout half the known world. Which is why the Apostles ended up in a situation where the gentiles asked Paul to meet with them the following Sabbath to teach them further in the ways of Christ!! Not the next Sunday. The next Sabbath.
KJV Acts 13:42-44
42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Funny how the truth upsets so many..... Why would God need to judge you for your work if not to save you, or is it that men love to boast, stand their proudly before God with chest puffed out, Hey God look at me look at what I did. Or did you not read this bit.


Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power,

I guess you would rather be judged by your works.

Being judged by your works means being examined to see if you are saved and love Jesus...

32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’ Matthew 25:32-40

10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. 2 Corinthians 5:10​

Are you ready to enter into that judgment and show by your life that you love Jesus and the members of his body, a love that only saved people have? Dead faith won't save you on that day.

(Notice all that 'boasting' in vs. 37)

 

[Brakelite]

SDAs are free, therefore, to observe the Sabbath if they want to open a door to witness to Jews.

You are instructing 25 million Christians how and why they ought to observe Sabbath?

And they're free to worship on Saturdays, if they wish.

Cool, thank you. Do we have your permission to worship on other days as well?

It is only wrong, according to Paul, to teach that all Christians *must* observe Sabbath as a *law.*

In many places Paul taught that the Law has been supplanted by following Christ

It is true that in matters of morality and attitudinal behavior toward God and neighbor, the NT teaches that the law is fulfilled by love. A love that can come only through one person... Jesus. You have that right. The Sabbath however isn't a matter of morals. It isn't a Commandment that any community would invent or create or establish in order to operate a just and fair society. Such a Commandment comes only by Divine Revelation and authority.
It isn't something that comes through a regenerated heart. The Sabbath doesn't belong to the Jews. It didn't belong to Seventh Day Adventists. Nor Seventh Day Baptists. It behind to God. It is His day... The Lord's day. Jesus Himself established it at creation... The seventh day. It was Jesus who placed a blessing on that day... At creation. It was Jesus who set aside that seventh day and made it holy... At creation. Hence why Jesus told His listeners that He was the Lord of the Sabbath day. He became the Lord of that day at creation. It was then, at creation, the Sabbath became the Lord's day. 1500-2000 years before there was ever a Jew or a written law.
There is no record, anywhere in scripture, either old testament or new, of Jesus removing the blessing of the sanctity from the seventh day. It was a holy day all the time from Adam to Moses. When the Commandment came, Jesus included in that law a reminder that Israel keep it holy. In other words, don't remove the holiness from My day.
That still stands.
Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.
It is still a holy day unless man profanes it by removing the holiness from it. Which is what Christians advocate by honoring another day, or not honoring any day: they profane God's day. A day which ought to be kept holy seeing Jesus still hasn't removed the blessing and the sanctity from that seventh day.
KJV Isaiah 58:13-14
13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

The Sabbath is still a holy day. It hasn't changed. What we do with it is more than a doctrinal debate. It's a matter of us recognizing authority. And obeying that authority.

And following Christ requires no observance of the Old Covenant.

The weekly seventh holy day of the Lord remains holy throughout the old and the new. Calvary make no impact whatsoever on the sanctity of the Sabbath day. Calvary did however have an impact on the message of good news that Israel sought to covet exclusively for themselves. It took the gospel worldwide... And a knowledge of God's holy day with it. Hence why in dozens of languages through out the world, the seventh day is known as "Sabbath".

 

[mjrhealth]

It is still a holy day unless man profanes it by removing the holiness from i

Thats exactly what you do, profane teh sabbath, but im on ignore all good,
they would rather believe the lie, prefer the law the hold wine skin to the Spirit the new wine, because they have never tasted the new wine. Blind following the blind and trying to make more men blind.

 

[mailmandan]

Get it totally. A desperation to defend the indefensible.

You obviously don't get it at all.

For goodness sake, the Sabbath was well known as a mark of identification for Israel throughout half the known world. Which is why the Apostles ended up in a situation where the gentiles asked Paul to meet with them the following Sabbath to teach them further in the ways of Christ!! Not the next Sunday. The next Sabbath.
KJV Acts 13:42-44
42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

In regards to Acts 13:42-44, Paul's work here was evangelism. Notice that these were "unbelievers" before Paul preached to them. Yes they believed in the Jewish system, but the Bible says in Acts 14:1, that they BECAME believers proving Paul's work there was evangelism and not sabbath worship.

The Greeks were Jewish converts to Judaism known as proselytes. They practiced the law of Moses and kept the sabbath. The only Greeks that were in the synagogue would be these proselytes. These Greeks were certainly not Christians. Acts 13:43 "Now when the meeting of the synagogue had broken up, many of the Jews and of the God-fearing proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, were urging them to continue in the grace of God."

Acts 14:1 - "In Iconium they entered the synagogue of the Jews together, and spoke in such a manner that a large number of people believed, both of Jews and of Greeks."

Acts 17:4 - "And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, along with a large number of the God-fearing Greeks and a number of the leading women.

Acts 18:4 - "And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks."

*So the mission of Paul and Barnabas here was evangelism and not sabbath worship.*

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

The Sabbath is still a holy day. It hasn't changed. What we do with it is more than a doctrinal debate. It's a matter of us recognizing authority. And obeying that authority.

The cold reality, SDA beforehand reject recognizing authority and obeying that authority for Feasting of Sabbath -- the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead on it.
WORSE, SDA usurp, hand in hand with Antichrist, THAT AUTHORITY FOR SUNDAY.

YOU know. If before you heard it from me you did not know, then, NOW YOU KNOW.

Don't bring strange fire to the altar of God's worship. I say it for you as for all Seventh day Adventists. God is not mocked.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Get it totally. A desperation to defend the indefensible. I'll take your post and offer you another reason why none of the writers of the NT specifically taught Sabbath observance. They didn't need to. Why? Because there was no controversy among either converted Jew or gentile, not even with the unconverted Jews who were horrified that the new faith didn't teach circumcision... Hence the controversy... But not once, ever, castigated anyone for not honoring the Sabbath. The Christians had no issue with Sabbath keeping... It was natural to continue to obey God's Commandments. Unlike today's examples, no-one then became a Christian them argued whether it was necessary to obey God. It simply wasn't an issue. A prime example of that, to follow your very own reasoning, and agreeing with your statement above that nowhere in the NT did anyone tell gentiles to observe the Sabbath, was the fact they didn't need to. The gentiles already knew about the Sabbath. For goodness sake, the Sabbath was well known as a mark of identification for Israel throughout half the known world. Which is why the Apostles ended up in a situation where the gentiles asked Paul to meet with them the following Sabbath to teach them further in the ways of Christ!! Not the next Sunday. The next Sabbath.
KJV Acts 13:42-44
42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Silence is not evidence.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Uh, you brought it up, right?

I did? I don't think so.

The laws that foreshadowed Christ are not compulsory. However, the ones that improve spiritual life may and, in some cases, should be observed. The laws I like??? What all do you know about the history and formation of the Seventh-day Adventist church?

A lot. Two of my uncles are SDA pastors. My friend from high school is both an SDA pastor and evangelist in Japan. Where you SDA from childhood?

 

[BarneyFife]

I did? I don't think so.
A lot. Two of my uncles are SDA pastors. My friend from high school is both an SDA pastor and evangelist in Japan. Where you SDA from childhood?

Not much of an answer--"A lot." You couldn't know much about Adventism or you'd be an Adventist. lol

I was converted from Southern Baptist at the age of 26. So I was not predisposed. I embraced Adventism with full self-volition and cognizance of what I was doing. It was like awakening from sleep for me. The book "National Sunday Law" by Jan Marcussen was what closed the deal for me. I don't think I really knew Jesus until 12 years later. Not very commendable, but fairly common, I've found. I've heard pastors say they weren't truly born again until they'd been in the ministry for years. Adventism comes in a quite neatly-wrapped package. And there is enough to occupy the mind that sometimes the heart lags behind. But God is patient. Oh, so patient.

I think I'm still going through stages of faith. Jon Paulien has a very interesting article about this. There's not really much that's particularly Adventist (Sabbath, etc.) about it.


Online Text:
Stages of Faith - Jon Paulien Ph.D.

PDF:
http://www.thebattleofarmageddon.com/stages_of_faith.pdf

Audio here:
https://oneclimbs.com/2015/08/13/audio-stages-of-faith-with-jon-paulien/

By the way, I'm sorry for being so disagreeable. I haven't been myself lately (or maybe I have, depending on how you look at it). In any case, no excuses.

 

[BarneyFife]

It might be important to note that I've moved on to a much more nuanced view of the "mark of the beast" than is presented in Marcussen's book. I wouldn't want to discredit it in any way, since it's sold over 40 million copies and has brought some very important information to light for millions of people. But if I were of a mind to produce a similar work, I would strive for something less rudimentary, and more post-modernly compassionate.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

"In eating and drinking of Sabbath's Feast WHICH IS reflection of the Nourishment ministered the divinely growing Body of Christ."

 

[Randy Kluth]

You are living in your own fools' paradise - where there is no inkling of what God says in his written Word.

Matt 5.22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

1 John 4.20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.

There are some who come into this forum with a root of bitterness, and you seem to be one of them. I don't hate you for it, as you seem to have hate for me. Rather, I encourage you to give your entire life up for Christ, so that he can replace your anger with his love.

10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips: 14Whose mouth [is] full of cursing and bitterness: 15Their feet [are] swift to shed blood: 16Destruction and misery [are] in their ways: 17And the way of peace have they not known: 18There is no fear of God before their eyes.

12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13(For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law – of whom there are “NONE” – shall be justified. 14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained = FORBEDDEN= in the law, these, having not the law, are a law – CONDEMNING THEM – unto themselves: 15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, = DEATH = their conscience also bearing witness, – of DEATH – and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; ) 16In the day when God shall judge {5719} the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

I have no problems with these Scriptures. You're not making any arguments--just calling me a "fool." If you'll let me know what your argument is precisely, I'll try to answer you?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

The Greeks were Jewish converts to Judaism known as proselytes. They practiced the law of Moses and kept the sabbath. The only Greeks that were in the synagogue would be these proselytes. These Greeks were certainly not Christians. Acts 13:43 "Now when the meeting of the synagogue had broken up, many of the Jews and of the God-fearing proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, were urging them to continue in the grace of God."

<<The Greeks were Jewish converts to Judaism known as proselytes.>>
Pisidia by Paul in the Jews' synagogue, was the first time "the Word of His - Christ's - Salvation, was sent .. to .. Abraham's stock and to whomsoever among you who FEAR GOD. .. When the Jews were gone out .. and the -remaining- CONGREGATION -of Greeks- was broken up, many Jews and proselytes followed Paul who persuaded them to continue in the grace of God" WHICH THEY FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THEIR LIVES, HEARD THAT DAY! These were Jews and Greeks CONVERTED AND BORN-AGAIN by Paul's preaching the Word of God by whose witness and confession of faith in no time "almost the whole city" was "persuaded" to fill the whole synagogue to hear Paul's Good News about Jesus Christ! "Then the weekly Sabbath Day after (the in-between-(seasonal great-day-of) sabbath, came almost the WHOLE CITY TOGETHER TO HEAR THE WORD OF GOD."

Now notice that Paul's preaching on the "in-between-(seasonal) sabbath" [metaksu sabbaton], BROUGHT DIVISION BETWEEN STOCK OF ABRAHAM and "whosoever" else -- the Greeks.

But next Sabbath Day, on the "weekly Sabbath" (-- "on the To-Hear-The-Word-of-God-Sabbath" [tohi Sabbatohi akousai ton Logon tou Theou]--), Jew and Gentile were reconciled in peaceful, ALL CHRISTIAN "attendance" and "togetherness", which "filled the Jews with envy, contradicting and blaspheming".

For that now, is the Bible-meaning of <<Sabbath-keeping>> as resulted from <<Paul's work (of) evangelism>> ON IT.