Committing murder

[elysian]

What if a person commits murder after he's saved?

Will he go to heaven (because he's saved), or will he go to hell because he's committed murder? If the latter, doesn't it mean that Jesus's sacrifice couldn't save him and that the man had to depend on his own morality to be saved?

 

[Redeemed86]

I've told a lie or two (probably more) and have unrighteously judged after I got saved. I'm sure they looked just as filthy leaving my heart as a murderer's hands would look afterward.

I have no doubt that when I repented of them, that Jesus happily forgave me and wiped my slate clean again. Just as he would to a saved and repentant murderer person who committed the sin of murder.

Ultimately, getting into heaven is God's decision to make, but committing sin(s) after becoming saved doesn't automatically make you hell-bound, or else we would all be in trouble.

Genuine repentance is key. God is that amazing

 

[aspen]

What if a person commits murder after he's saved?

Will he go to heaven (because he's saved), or will he go to hell because he's committed murder? If the latter, doesn't it mean that Jesus's sacrifice couldn't save him and that the man had to depend on his own morality to be saved?

Only a true, contrite confession will reconcile a murderer to God. I believe it is a mortal sin and will interfere with the murderers ability to relate to God.

Honestly, I am not sure a person who has experienced God and than gone out and murdered someone can open his heart again and give a contrite confession - but anything is possible with God.

 

[Hollyrock]

What if a person commits murder after he's saved?

Will he go to heaven (because he's saved), or will he go to hell because he's committed murder? If the latter, doesn't it mean that Jesus's sacrifice couldn't save him and that the man had to depend on his own morality to be saved?

He should go to Heaven because he is saved, but then what if he does'nt repent for the murder, will he still go to Heaven ? One thing is for certain though...his morality can't save him. Good question.

 

[Redeemed86]

The topic of murder, grim as it is, is very situation based.

I believe abortion is murder, no matter the cause of conception, and needs repenting of. I also believe that what the world defines as killing in "self defense" can be viewed as murder in God's eyes depending on the situation. I guess my post above was more in terms of retaliative murder, where the person is overcome with grief/emotion from losing someone close, and not cold-blooded conspired murder, which may be what Elysian is referring to.

Evil as each is, I think the situation and where the believer is at in their walk with God, makes the difference. God forgives it all though.

 

[elysian]

Take Hitler and Gandhi. If you say Hitler is in hell for his crimes against humanity and Gandhi in heaven for his good deeds, that would mean God will reward you for good deeds and punish you for bad deeds. This in turn would make Jesus completely irrelevant.

 

[aspen]

Take Hitler and Gandhi. If you say Hitler is in hell for his crimes against humanity and Gandhi in heaven for his good deeds, that would mean God will reward you for good deeds and punish you for bad deeds. This in turn would make Jesus completely irrelevant.

Not sure about that......it is obvious by Hitler's fruit that he was self-focused. Gandhi's fruit showed the world that he was not self-focused. Gandhi also knew Jesus. I am not saying that Gandhi is in heaven, but if he is, it is not based on his deeds, but his focus.

 

[Shirley]

Take Hitler and Gandhi. If you say Hitler is in hell for his crimes against humanity and Gandhi in heaven for his good deeds, that would mean God will reward you for good deeds and punish you for bad deeds. This in turn would make Jesus completely irrelevant.

God rewards and even keeps a book! The fact that you wrote, Jesus is irrelevant, makes me worried about you! Of course God judges good and evil! Jesus judges the church and God judges the nations. I am worried about you honey. Did you open the door to let Jesus come in?

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

God rewards and even keeps a book! The fact that you wrote, Jesus is irrelevant, makes me worried about you! Of course God judges good and evil! Jesus judges the church and God judges the nations. I am worried about you honey. Did you open the door to let Jesus come in?

I don't think that's what they were meaning. If I may be so bold to translate. If our actions and deeds provided a way to heaven then Jesus would be irrelevant. We would have no need for Jesus, atleast in the need that Jesus died for our sins.

 

[Foreigner]

Not sure about that......it is obvious by Hitler's fruit that he was self-focused. Gandhi's fruit showed the world that he was not self-focused. Gandhi also knew Jesus. I am not saying that Gandhi is in heaven, but if he is, it is not based on his deeds, but his focus.

-- Ghandi know "of" Jesus, but did not know Him personally. He spoke positively of the message of peace that Jesus put forth and made a comment (paraphrasing) that he liked Christ very much....it was Christians he had a problem with.

Murder or any other sit committed after you become a Christian can and will be forgiven - if and ONLY if you are truly sorry for your sin.

That will of course not negate your worldly punishment (prison) but your honest contrition and desire to again draw close to Christ will have Him weloming you with a warm hug into heaven when the time comes.

On the flip side, I believe there will be many a person who considers themselves a Christian only to be shocked by where they end up standing when Jesus seperates the sheep from the goats.




.

 

[Lively Stone]

Not sure about that......it is obvious by Hitler's fruit that he was self-focused. Gandhi's fruit showed the world that he was not self-focused. Gandhi also knew Jesus. I am not saying that Gandhi is in heaven, but if he is, it is not based on his deeds, but his focus.

If both men, regardless of their sins or their good deeds rejected Jesus Christ's sacrifice for them personally at Calvary, then both men will not see the Kingdom of God.

Hitler revealed no fruit of the Spirit whatsoever, so we should be fairly certain he was serving Satan and his agenda for the world, adn especially the Jew. Gandhi was quite open about his rejection of Jesus Christ, and his focus was not to serve God. There is no other focus that is meritorious to God. Only what we do for Christ is rewarded with the Kingdom, and only those who know Him and not simply know about Him will receive that reward.

 

[biggandyy]

If you want to shock a lower case "c" christian into a thought provoking discussion begin it this way:

Q: What do Adolf Hitler and Mother Theresa have in common?

A: Both are in hades waiting their final judgment.

Hitler was quoted saying, "Our epoch will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity."

Mother Teresa was asked: "Do you believe if they die [people in her mission] believing in Shiva or in Ram [Hindu gods] they will go to heaven?"
Her answer: "Yes, that is their faith. My own faith will lead me to God, ... So if they have believed in their god very strongly, if they have faith, surely they will be saved."

One preached the destruction of Christianity, the other preached pantheism. Both languish in their just reward.

 

[aspen]

I'll leave the judging of souls to God.

 

[Foreigner]

Not sure about that......it is obvious by Hitler's fruit that he was self-focused. Gandhi's fruit showed the world that he was not self-focused. Gandhi also knew Jesus. I am not saying that Gandhi is in heaven, but if he is, it is not based on his deeds, but his focus.

-- But if his 'focus' didn't involve completely surrendering his life to Christ and turning away from all other spiritual beliefs and practices, then he is not in heaven.
That isn't judging him. That is simply an if-than statement based on what God said is required for those who wish to see heaven.

 

[elysian]

-- But if his 'focus' didn't involve completely surrendering his life to Christ and turning away from all other spiritual beliefs and practices, then he is not in heaven.
That isn't judging him. That is simply an if-than statement based on what God said is required for those who wish to see heaven.

Infants who die in a few days ... will they also miss heaven because of this? Just wondering, not baiting you.

 

[aspen]

-- But if his 'focus' didn't involve completely surrendering his life to Christ and turning away from all other spiritual beliefs and practices, then he is not in heaven.
That isn't judging him. That is simply an if-than statement based on what God said is required for those who wish to see heaven.

according to our christian understanding, he is not in heaven.

 

[biggandyy]

Infants who die in a few days ... will they also miss heaven because of this? Just wondering, not baiting you.

As the Lord says, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy." That means it is up to Him to make the correct judgment concerning infants and those aborted. Some may pass through to eternal life, some may pass on to eternal death. Since He knows the beginning from the end and we don't that is the only scripturally correct response and the only answer that preserves the sovreignty of God. He MAY allow all of them into heaven, but He is in no wise OBLIGATED to do so.

 

[veteran]

Our Lord Jesus taught about the situation with a murderer during His Millennium reign also...

Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
(KJV)

Matt 25:30
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
(KJV)


So the real question should be, just where... will even an unrepentant Christian who later murders wind up when Christ returns? In that outer darkness outside the gates of the holy city among the rest of the murderers, idolaters, sorcerers, whoremongers, liars, etc.

Thus God's Word makes a clear distinction between those who follow His commandments and are blessed by doing so, vs. those to be cast in the outer darkness which obey the world instead.

 

[Foreigner]

Infants who die in a few days ... will they also miss heaven because of this? Just wondering, not baiting you.

-- Let me answer your question with a question.
Do you really think God would judge an infant who has no ability to realize who God is, let alone make a decision to follow Him...the exact same way that He would an adult who has heard about God, has the ability to judge for himself, and chose not to follow God?