Confession

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bbyrd009

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Where are you @bbyrd009 ?
What are your views on confession?

I don't really mean asking for forgiveness of someone...
More about confessing our sins to God.

I wouldn't think about this so much, but it does seem that Jesus passed on HIS authority to forgive sins to the Apostles in John 20:23.
ah well a prob here is that we are discussing two diff kinds of confession, Catholic and Christian, and i guess i don't really get this "confess your sins to God," where is that?
http://biblehub.com/lexicon/1_john/1-9.htm,
but it disappears in the Lex, see
http://biblehub.com/lexicon/ezra/10-11.htm
also disappears. Any other examples?
 
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amadeus

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ah well a prob here is that we are discussing two diff kinds of confession, Catholic and Christian, and i guess i don't really get this "confess your sins to God," where is that?
http://biblehub.com/lexicon/1_john/1-9.htm,
but it disappears in the Lex, see
http://biblehub.com/lexicon/ezra/10-11.htm
also disappears. Any other examples?
It is a bit difficult to find and when we do find something what is it that meant by God that we should do?

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." I John 1:9

That taken along with that other verse what is it that we have?

"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much." James 5:16

What does the word, "confess" mean?
 
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bbyrd009

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i guess we have diff defs of "sin" too; what "sin" might you confess to God that has no victim that would appreciate the confession?
 

Helen

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http://biblehub.com/lexicon/psalms/32-5.htm
same thing

none of these are discussing "confess your sin to God" in the way that we understand that phrase today imo

Thanks...interesting...I will have to 'dig deeper'..because as you say...it was taught to us 'from the beginning' of our Christian walk.

I guess when we think of Isaiah ..it kinda lends to that idea, repentance godward, not manward.
6:5 "Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts. Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged."
And in Luke:-
" And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner."

Again godward, to to man.

But I guess we do tend to get in the mind set of it always being godward..whereas we do need accountability to our brother too.
Keeping a clean slate with them. Which brings more humility into our life and brings us down a peg or two.
 
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amadeus

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i guess we have diff defs of "sin" too; what "sin" might you confess to God that has no victim that would appreciate the confession?
I remember only too well when I severely hurt a young German girl with my words during the year I spent as a student in West Berlin [1969-1970]. It always bothered me but later when God called me to Him [1976] I needed to resolve the issue within myself. I lived in California and had no way to communicate with the girl who was not from West Berlin, but from some unknown place in West Germany. Too much time and distance between us and no way to establish communication.

I prayed and talked to God about it. Finally I stood up during a service at the first church [assembly] where I was attending and confessed my misdeeds to the congregation. It was the best I could do for me, but what did that do for the girl who had suffered the pain I had inflicted? Even after so many years the memory of when and where and why it happened are very clear to me. Some things we simply cannot do any more even if we are willing. What does God require?
 

Helen

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Trivia
When I wrote the phrase "down a peg or two "I wondered where that came from. I found.
Quote :-
It is interesting though that all the early citations of the phrase have a religious context; for example:

Pappe with An Hatchet, 1589 - "Now haue at you all my gaffers of the rayling religion, tis I that must take you a peg lower."

Joseph Mead's Letters, 1625 - "A-talking of the brave times that would be shortly... when... the Bishop of Chester, that bore himself so high, should be hoisted a peg higher to his little ease."

Samuel Butler's Hudibras, 1664 - "We still have worsted all your holy Tricks,... And took your Grandees down a peg."

If the pegs were some religious artefact, it isn't clear what they were. Lacking any real evidence, we can't be sure of the origin.

End Quote:-
 

bbyrd009

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repentance
"repentance" is not even a very accurate translation of the term imo, it is basically redefining "Talents" all over again.
So let's change all the definitions, and then ppl will enjoy "going to" confession, now a Human Institution
:/ this is just what has replaced Flagellation imo
 
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Helen

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Thanks for jumping in on these posts Mark.
I find them all thought provoking.
 

amadeus

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yes--so far i've found "profess, throw or cast, thanksgiving" and "to speak the same or to agree," and i am not even looking hard. "Admit"--the way we use it now--seems closest to the last one i guess
The way we commonly use as it relates to our walk with God is to "Confess (admit) guilt". To simply confess something may no more than a declaration of opinion or fact as opposed to an admission of guilt, but the guilt part is what we are wanting to understand.
 

bbyrd009

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I remember only too well when I severely hurt a young German girl with my words during the year I spent as a student in West Berlin [1969-1970]. It always bothered me but later when God called me to Him [1976] I needed to resolve the issue within myself. I lived in California and had no way to communicate with the girl who was not from West Berlin, but from some unknown place in West Germany. Too much time and distance between us and no way to establish communication.

I prayed and talked to God about it. Finally I stood up during a service at the first church [assembly] where I was attending and confessed my misdeeds to the congregation. It was the best I could do for me, but what did that do for the girl who had suffered the pain I had inflicted? Even after so many years the memory of when and where and why it happened are very clear to me. Some things we simply cannot do any more even if we are willing. What does God require?
sure, that can be the case, but i am detecting a lot of "confession" going on where no sin has occurred, and tbh i would even probe you some more to see if you just maybe did not quite accept that all of your past sins were forgiven when you accepted Christ, maybe? Why not?

Of course i get why not, and i was tortured by past sins myself for years; that is a tool of satan imo, and a codependent way to reject Christ and keep the focus on self. At least it was for me. Of course i don't know what you said to her, but we might even examine that; you might have severely hurt her with some truth, or simply called her ugly or something, and there's an obvious diff there, even if the first one can be a sin too i guess
 
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bbyrd009

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but the guilt part is what we are wanting to understand.
as you have just illustrated it is easy to retain guilt even after one has been forgiven, and i guess we are all fam with someone who suffers from crushing loads of "guilt" but has committed no sin, too; and they generally "confess" guilt all over the place. So imo it is the "forgiveness" part that needs to be understood. Pointing out guilt will not help a hypocrite anyway imo, no matter how nicely you put it. At least not in my experience.

And generally speaking it seems that confession one to another is the very last thing most guilty ppl want to do for an actual sin, gimme a priest in a dark closet any day for that lol. Now i doubt that that reflects the heart of every Catholic, but that is not the point
 
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amadeus

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sure, that can be the case, but i am detecting a lot of "confession" going on where no sin has occurred, and tbh i would even probe you some more to see if you just maybe did not quite accept that all of your past sins were forgiven when you accepted Christ, maybe? Why not?
I believe I understood that for some things which I had not considered or remembered might later require repentance. In time that became even more clear to me. I cannot speak for anyone else, of course. My own perspective on many such things surely had changed since 1976.

Of course i get why not, and i was tortured by past sins myself for years; that is a tool of satan imo, and a codependent way to reject Christ and keep the focus on self. At least it was for me. Of course i don't know what you said to her, but we might even examine that; you might have severely hurt her with some truth, or simply called her ugly or something, and there's an obvious diff there, even if the first one can be a sin too i guess
What I did was laugh when it was no laughing matter. I was with a friend and I did it without thought and of course he joined in with me. Part of the difficulty is that my last memory of her is of her running away from the bus we were on crying, the tears streaming down her face. The memory still bothers me when I consider it as I am doing now, but generally speaking it does not eat at me any more as it once did.

Whether it was sin or not is not even the important question. It is not the reason I still remember it so clearly. It is because I really did hurt her and there is absolutely nothing I can do to apologize to her. For all I know she is deceased.
 
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amadeus

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as you have just illustrated it is easy to retain guilt even after one has been forgiven, and i guess we are all fam with someone who suffers from crushing loads of "guilt" but has committed no sin, too; and they generally "confess" guilt all over the place. So imo it is the "forgiveness" part that needs to be understood. Pointing out guilt will not help a hypocrite anyway imo, no matter how nicely you put it. At least not in my experience.

And generally speaking it seems that confession one to another is the very last thing most guilty ppl want to do for an actual sin, gimme a priest in a dark closet any day for that lol. Now i doubt that that reflects the heart of every Catholic, but that is not the point
No doubt confessing to a priest in a dark closet could have been easier than saying "I'm sorry" to the actual victim. But when my cited experience occurred while I was still nominally a Catholic, I had not been to a confessional in about 10 years. Neither have I been to one since that time.

While I don't let it bother strongly anymore, I don't believe that I am supposed to forget it. It remains a reminder to me of one of the wrong places I have been and where I do not want to go again.
 
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Nancy

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yes--so far i've found "profess, throw or cast, thanksgiving" and "to speak the same or to agree," and i am not even looking hard. "Admit"--the way we use it now--seems closest to the last one i guess

Confession , to me, is that we agree with God that we are lost sinners without Jesus.
 

Helen

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Whether it was sin or not is not even the important question. It is not the reason I still remember it so clearly. It is because I really did hurt her and there is absolutely nothing I can do to apologize to her. For all I know she is deceased.

Off topic I know...
But I do believe in the ministry of angels on the Lords behalf ( from God's realm or from right here unawares) ...therefore the moment you were broken hearted about this God would have set His ball in motion to heal the heart.
Who knows what God did for her...because God is God...I am more the convinced that her latter end was better than her first. Because God was now 'in the picture'. ✟
 

Philip James

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The sacrament of reconcilliation, has been a blessing to me personally,

Having knowingly and willfully disobeyed my God, it is here, that my Lord bound up my wounds and restored my soul and renewed my life in HIM.

For those of us who have squandered our inheritance amd find ourselves living with the pigs, it is our Father coming out to meet us and welcome us home with open arms....

For those who have remained faithful (the elder brother) it is allowing Jesus to wash the dirt from their feet...

Peace!
 
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epostle

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One thing I learned for myself with the repetitious Hail Marys and Our Father for penance was don't do them in repetitious way. I remember when I caught myself on it. I had gotten into the habit of saying the memorized prayers as fast as I could to get on with things a kid wanted to do and I was pretty fast. God tweaked my heart about it once when I came out of the confessional and went into the sanctuary to kneel and pray the prayers. I slowed down and thought about every word I was saying every time that I repeated it. It was one of those great turn arounds in my life. I never went back to speed praying.

Give God the glory!
When we were kids in the pre-Vatican era, the manner of teaching catechesis was still developing. Jesus did not condemn repetitious prayer, He condemned the vanity. Repetitious prayer is analogous to an orchestra to a play, and the actions we are to focus on is the main events of the Bible, condensed to 20. While the "music" is playing we visualize being present at the birth, life, death, resurrection and other biblical events. The Rosary is not primarily about Mary, it's a Bible study. We don't *need* rosaries, fingers work just as well. Praising Jesus (...blessed is the the fruit of your womb, Jesus..) and mocking the rosary is done out of ignorance "...for they know not what they do". There are Protestants who recite the Rosary. The capacity for abstract thinking usually develops between the ages of 10-14.
Good point. It does sound a little bit as if confession is more than " against the local body of people...but sin in general maybe. Hummm
Now you have got me musing upon that.
I wonder what our friend @bbyrd009 would say about it...he has strong views on "confessing."
But James does seem to blow a hole in the general mainline stand that we "just" confess our sins to God "in the closet" in private?
. . . View attachment 2930
James 5 talks about 2 different sacraments. Reconciliation and the Anointing of the Sick. It used to be called "Extreme Unction" because it was usually administered when you faced death. Protestant pastors will follow James 5 and anoint their sick members on hospital rounds so praying over the sick with oil is not foreign to some Protestants. If you look at James 5 carefully, a person can have their sins forgiven even when unconscious. Oh those wacky Catholics!!!
Where are you @bbyrd009 ?
What are your views on confession?
I don't really mean asking for forgiveness of someone...
More about confessing our sins to God.
I wouldn't think about this so much, but it does seem that Jesus passed on HIS authority to forgive sins to the Apostles in John 20:23.
We can and should confess our sins directly to God. That works just fine. For Catholics confessing to a priest is mandatory once a year, and upon committing a mortal sin. It's not a matter of following rules, it's a matter of conscience. Once a month is suggested because it leads to spiritual maturity and holiness. All Christians should take a periodic honest moral inventory of ourselves. or we risk remaining a spiritual infant.



 
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bbyrd009

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We can and should confess our sins directly to God. That works just fine.
Quote it then please, or see that you are just making sh-t up
ty
For Catholics confessing to a priest is mandatory once a year, and upon committing a mortal sin.
then may i ask why you are here, and not on a Catholic site? Do you just enjoy hearing that your beliefs are unScriptural or something? I would be careful about mistaking forgiveness and tolerance for acceptance, especially while you are holding that gun, ok. God will not be mocked kepha