Confession

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Helen

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
15,471
21,160
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Yes when they knew they were naked, they covered themselves with Fig Leafs, in other words Excuses!!!! then they were covered with skins, from the animals God dispatched!

I was taught this too...
Then someone asked me if I had considered that before the Fall Adam and Eve dwelt in Light, they were spirit , soul and lastly body...and had no need of 'skin' but after the Fall they were flipped up side down.. and became Body- dominated, then soul and and lastly spirit ...and God covered then with skin.
I also had a study that our blood is actually a lower form of light.
Maybe before sin got into the bloodline of Adam it was just light.

If God " covered them with animal skins ...He was have been the first killer to take a life. default_hmm.gif
Not sure I like that any more!
Gen 3 "Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them."

Killing something is not even mentioned, so who first came up with that story?

Just food for thought :D It has made me think.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Truth

Nancy

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Apr 30, 2018
17,437
26,775
113
Buffalo, Ny
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I cannot disagree, but if they were to get moving, I would think the fire would have landed further south! LOL
In my opinion, take Phillip for an example, the Spirit directed him to the Desert, down in Gaza somewhere to intercept an Ethiopian, who gets saved then baptized, and when the Ethiopian comes up from the water Phillip is GONE, these men were Imputed with not only power, but were utilized in very special ways! beyond our concept!

"I cannot disagree, but if they were to get moving, I would think the fire would have landed further south!
LOL" Ahahaha...I admit that is what I was thinking but thought twice before I posted "light a fire under their----- :O
"...
take Phillip for an example..." Great example, yes...I do believe they were given special powers that we do not possess today.

 

Truth

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2017
1,737
1,797
113
72
AZ, Quartzsite
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I was taught this too...
Then someone asked me if I had considered that before the Fall Adam and Eve dwelt in Light, they were spirit , soul and lastly body...and had no need of 'skin' but after the Fall they were flipped up side down.. and became Body- dominated, then soul and and lastly spirit ...and God covered then with skin.
I also had a study that our blood is actually a lower form of light.
Maybe before sin got into the bloodline of Adam it was just light.

If God " covered them with animal skins ...He was have been the first killer to take a life. View attachment 2959
Not sure I like that any more!
Gen 3 "Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them."

Killing something is not even mentioned, so who first came up with that story?

Just food for thought :D It has made me think.

This could be true, I am just a simple person, so to just consider that God did cloth them, and made coats of skin, only to consider that they were skins from animals, is just a presumption! He created the Heavens and the Earth, why can't He Create Coats!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Helen and Nancy

Helen

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
15,471
21,160
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
This could be true, I am just a simple person, so to just consider that God did cloth them, and made coats of skin, only to consider that they were skins from animals, is just a presumption! He created the Heavens and the Earth, why can't He Create Coats!

.....so maybe before the fall...we were like sausages without skins...the God put skins on!!! :D
Who knows...the older I get the more I am aware that I just took things on the spoon that fed us a baby christians ...I never thought anything through "for myself.'
We always have to be dividing what man has told us and what God has actually told us!!
Trouble is..with that stand , a person has to learn to be unpopular...no one like the 'party-line' being weighed in the balance!! :)

Bless you....H
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy and Truth

Dcopymope

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2016
2,650
800
113
37
Motor City
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I was taught this too...
Then someone asked me if I had considered that before the Fall Adam and Eve dwelt in Light, they were spirit , soul and lastly body...and had no need of 'skin' but after the Fall they were flipped up side down.. and became Body- dominated, then soul and and lastly spirit ...and God covered then with skin.
I also had a study that our blood is actually a lower form of light.
Maybe before sin got into the bloodline of Adam it was just light.

If God " covered them with animal skins ...He was have been the first killer to take a life. View attachment 2959
Not sure I like that any more!
Gen 3 "Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them."

Killing something is not even mentioned, so who first came up with that story?

Just food for thought :D It has made me think.

default_hmm.gif
There is a whole lot of mental gymnastics one would have to go through for this to even begin to make any sense. A reversal of the order of spirit, soul and body means he already had a "body". If they just became "body" dominate, then why would God need to give them something they already had to start with? Also, this entire argument is based on the well known fallacious argument from silence. The killing of an animal isn't mentioned, so therefore an animal wasn't used to make the coats. This is akin to the old tired argument of Jesus having no blood.

(Luke 24:39) "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

Jesus never mentions blood, so therefore he didn't have any in him. If one truly wants to be honest with their interpretations from silence, then one must also conclude that he didn't have finger nails, toe nails, eye lashes, a nose, ears, not even a tongue simply because it wasn't mentioned. And if he did use animal skins, then that somehow makes God the first killer, even though Jesus expressly called Satan the first killer. So which one is it? you can't have it both ways.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,110
4,778
113
54
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The animal skins represent our ego - animal nature. We needed them to protect ourselves from other people because our vulnerable, intimate relationship with God and neighbor was damaged beyond our repair and the wrold had become a dangerous place.
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
15,471
21,160
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
default_hmm.gif
There is a whole lot of mental gymnastics one would have to go through for this to even begin to make any sense. A reversal of the order of spirit, soul and body means he already had a "body". If they just became "body" dominate, then why would God need to give them something they already had to start with? Also, this entire argument is based on the well known fallacious argument from silence. The killing of an animal isn't mentioned, so therefore an animal wasn't used to make the coats. This is akin to the old tired argument of Jesus having no blood.



Jesus never mentions blood, so therefore he didn't have any in him. If one truly wants to be honest with their interpretations from silence, then one must also conclude that he didn't have finger nails, toe nails, eye lashes, a nose, ears, not even a tongue simply because it wasn't mentioned. And if he did use animal skins, then that somehow makes God the first killer, even though Jesus expressly called Satan the first killer. So which one is it? you can't have it both ways.

Oh I can see your argument. But I LIKE being made to think outside the box once in a while. We get so complacent ...we are used to being spoon fed, we forget to get our own food.

I find thinking outside the 'main-line' box....FUN once in a while!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

Dcopymope

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2016
2,650
800
113
37
Motor City
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The animal skins represent our ego - animal nature. We needed them to protect ourselves from other people because our vulnerable, intimate relationship with God and neighbor was damaged beyond our repair and the wrold had become a dangerous place.

default_hmm.gif
So if our ego was damaged beyond repair, then it was mission failure for Jesus Christ. I'm not saying I actually believe the animals skins to be representative of anything beyond animal skins.

Oh I can see your argument. But I LIKE being made to think outside the box once in a while. We get so complacent ...we are used to being spoon fed, we forget to get our own food.

I find thinking outside the 'main-line' box....FUN once in a while!

Thinking outside the box is not the problem, its the logical fallacies people get from it that's the problem. Its when logically fallacious arguments are used to explain away the creator of logic that you start bordering on absurdities.
 

Nancy

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Apr 30, 2018
17,437
26,775
113
Buffalo, Ny
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Oh I can see your argument. But I LIKE being made to think outside the box once in a while. We get so complacent ...we are used to being spoon fed, we forget to get our own food.

I find thinking outside the 'main-line' box....FUN once in a while!
Oh I am so right with you on this one! I think we should always keep our minds open to what The Spirit has to teach us! Of course, we still "test the spirits" and use our Godly discernment. My thoughts are that we will never stop learning new things as our God is eternal and He is a Creator without end so...goes to reason that even when we are living in Heaven...we will ALWAYS learn because I think He always creates! Nuttin to back that up, JMO :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Helen

Dcopymope

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2016
2,650
800
113
37
Motor City
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Oh I am so right with you on this one! I think we should always keep our minds open to what The Spirit has to teach us! Of course, we still "test the spirits" and use our Godly discernment. My thoughts are that we will never stop learning new things as our God is eternal and He is a Creator without end so...goes to reason that even when we are living in Heaven...we will ALWAYS learn because I think He always creates! Nuttin to back that up, JMO :)

You can rest assured that I will have a ton of questions for God.....well......maybe not, because most of them would be concerning everything that went down on this earth, of which I won't even remember, according to John and Isaiah. "Godly discernment" doesn't exclude your ability to come to a logical conclusion. And we wonder why we are seen from those outside the faith as a joke. What is "Godly" about illogical arguments?
 

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
14,082
7,310
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
IF this is right, then Jesus was wrong to including in His model prayer, "and forgiven us AS WE FORGIVE those who sin against us." Wrong because if this view is correct, we can't forgive - and we are asking God to thus not forgive us. There are MANY Scriptures that command us to forgive - odd if we are forbidden to do that.

.
I don't understand what you mean.
We are instructed to forgive those who sin against us and do us harm, so that God can forgive us in some way that I truly do not understand.

"Forgive us our traspasses
as we forgive those who trespass against us"...

Why was it wrong to include this in the Lord's Prayer?

How would you explain John 20:23?
 

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
14,082
7,310
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
I think that the Apostles were Baptized with Fire, Power from on High, this was explicit to Them, Remember these Men Walked with our Savior, they were given Authority before Jesus was Crucified! I do not believe that this Ability co-exists in any one person today, for you must be able to know the Heart of the person you are giving forgiveness, thus Christ through the Spirit, for our Savior knows the Hearts of us all! IMO!
It seems as though this authority was passed on.
Would you care to read the following and give me your opinion?
Thanks.
http://www.stsophiaukrainian.cc/resources/ecfonconfession/

P.S. Augustine is post the ECF.
 

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
14,082
7,310
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
And...especially when we don't feel one bit like doing so!!!
Even more reason to practice forgiveness. When it costs us!
Right. Forgiveness begins in the will and then moves to the heart, usually.
It's also possible for it to begin in the heart - depends on the circumstances.
But in any case, it must be practiced.
Psychologically we can all understand why forgiving is also good for us.
But I'm sure Jesus also meant it in other ways that we may not understand very well...but if He said to do it, then we should; even if we don't understand all the reasons why. (spiritual reasons).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Helen

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,082
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
Yes when they knew they were naked, they covered themselves with Fig Leafs, in other words Excuses!!!! then they were covered with skins, from the animals God dispatched!
if fig leaves may rep excuses then one might ask why God had to literally clothe them with an animal skin? i would contemplate @aspen 's perspective here, and allow for other interps of "skin" imo. Not that i'm particularly squeamish about God dispatching animals or anything, but this is strictly an assumption, and not supported by the text,
http://biblehub.com/lexicon/genesis/3-21.htm

i've even heard a possibly legit arg that goes "they had furry hides up until then, but evolved furless skin after that,"
"God making them a coat of skins." Which i guess you reject the "evolved" part, but the point is to see that God could "make" them a "coat of skins" by other means than killing, and also that the "skins" are likely as symbolic as the fig leaves anyway.
"Ego" sounds better the more i hear it tbh
 
  • Like
Reactions: Helen

Helen

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2011
15,471
21,160
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
if fig leaves may rep excuses then one might ask why God had to literally clothe them with an animal skin? i would contemplate @aspen 's perspective here, and allow for other interps of "skin" imo. Not that i'm particularly squeamish about God dispatching animals or anything, but this is strictly an assumption, and not supported by the text,
http://biblehub.com/lexicon/genesis/3-21.htm

i've even heard a possibly legit arg that goes "they had furry hides up until then, but evolved furless skin after that,"
"God making them a coat of skins." Which i guess you reject the "evolved" part, but the point is to see that God could "make" them a "coat of skins" by other means than killing, and also that the "skins" are likely as symbolic as the fig leaves anyway.
"Ego" sounds better the more i hear it tbh

Amen...I like that one!!
. . . .happy-yes-smiley-emoticon.gif
 

Frank Lee

Well-Known Member
Feb 23, 2017
1,459
2,842
113
80
Ouachita Mountains
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Personally I have to go before my father since we are admonished not to call any man father upon this earth. If that's all that others can do then God must speak to it.

Matthew 23:9 KJVS
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

No man, no preacher, no evangelist, no deacon, no priest no reverend, no pastor, no man came to me and convicted, instructed me to repent and forgave my sin. Jesus alone. I owe no man to tell of my personal failures though in my house we sit and speak of the Lord, our failures, our learning. Our afflictions, travails, victories and defeats. Two or more is the base rule.

Ezekiel chapter 34 is my personal testimony. I shook no preacher's hand, walked no aisle, signed no book and am not beholding to any of man's created denominations. I do owe a debt of gratitude to those that prayed for my salvation. Especially my uncle Douglas Franklin who prayed for me for years.

Psalm 62:8 tells me to pour out my heart before Him, He is a refuge for me. Men can give comfort but only Jesus can give divine and final absolution. We can tell each other of our failures - sins - but only the judge of all has the final say.

Once we forgive a person are they free, exonerated, held blameless from their offense? Even if they are completely unrepentant? That's God's decision.

We must not hold unforgivness against another as it can be to their condemnation and certainly will be to ours. After we forgive we are free whether or not the offending party repents. After we forgive another the matter is between them and the Lord. We are released whether or not they are. We have obeyed the master.

Once a family member touched my small young daughter thinking they could get away with it. Our daughter being a born again Christian by age 4 came and told us of the matter. She couldn't have been over 5.

As a father I don't know whether you can comprehend my feelings or not. You might guess them. I took this family member aside and spoke with him telling that my daughter had told her mother and I about what he'd done. I told him that we forgave him. I also told him that were it not for Jesus I don't know what I would have done. Assaults upon your children bring up emotions you were ignorant of.

Perhaps I should never relate anything personal here before strangers? We come to know each other to a degree. However many deep relationships began with mere letters. Perhaps I go far beyond the pale in my testimonies. I see little of such things from others. Maybe by being completely open about my life someone is helped, I'm not sure but I hope. There are many silent readers that never post or announce their presence. Often I sense a restraint from others to relate, to share, to pour out their heart about such gut rending things. If I'm a fool for baring my heart then I pray it's for Jesus. I don't mind being a fool for Him.

The family member that had offended and sinned against my child seemed repentant and I think they were. Several years later at the age of 30 this man went out one night, doused himself with gasoline and set himself on fire. Neighbors called 911 and he was taken to ACH, Arkansas Children's Hospital. His father called to tell me.

He was burned over more than 30 % of his body with 3rd degree burns. He was rallying so my wife and I went to a movie to get out of the house. The movie was "the perfect storm" a true story about a fishing vessel that sank in a storm.

The main character Bobby, shared his name with our family member. As the man floated on the huge waves awaiting death his life memories ran through his mind, faces of loved ones clearly framed. In the midst of that film surrounded by a crowd of strangers, Martha and I began to cry. I suppose those that noticed thought it was the movie. We knew right then Bobby was about to die and would not live. The Lord spoke to us through that man made thing.

We were called to the hospital the very next day as Bobby's condition was terminal. As his father and I stood next to Bobby's bed we listened to the doctor's report. Only the life support systems were holding him in life. Once he had told me he loved me more than his own father. What a waste of life. He had many other afflictions but not due to a sin filled life.

As a small boy His parents would leave him and his brother alone all weekend while they went to party. The boys were about 6 and 8 at the time. They would leave them with food but totally alone. Neighbors reported seeing them under a street light in the wee hours of the morning awaiting for their heartless parents to come home. I wish I'd have taken legal action. Their mother was one of the coldest, truly amoral people I ever knew.

Bobby was completely broken mentally and the Lord is the judge in such matters. He was not in control when he did this thing.

Bobby's father's reply to the doctor was brief, "pull the plugs". I watched as the white curved line on the monitor went from the zig zag sinus rythym indicating life to a straight horizontal one. Bobby was gone. His mother was divorced from his father and had planned to go camping with no thought of attending her sons funeral. Her roommate talked her into going, entirely against her will. My wife wept through the chapel service and Bobby's mother elbowing her all the while.

Bobby Fish.jpg
Bobby about 11 fishing at our pond.

Our discussions here must be more than some sort of mental exercise. They must really be able to help others in their spiritual life. If all I ever share is regarded as a good read or an interesting testimony then I have poured out my heart in vain. I refuse to share anything if it's not really from my heart.

Perhaps, just perhaps someone is actually helped, guided, influenced toward the Lord by such real life accounts such as this one. I pray so. I do feel alone in these testimonies I must say.

Confession must be to God. Our forgiveness must be sincere. We are all yearning for forgiveness and complete acceptance by the Lord. We share these things with others and in so doing we can stir up in them a self examination regarding their own sins.


James 5:16 KJVS
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Sin is not just a Bible word. It has killed more people that all diseases and wars combined. Jesus is the only antidote.
 

Truth

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2017
1,737
1,797
113
72
AZ, Quartzsite
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
if fig leaves may rep excuses then one might ask why God had to literally clothe them with an animal skin? i would contemplate @aspen 's perspective here, and allow for other interps of "skin" imo. Not that i'm particularly squeamish about God dispatching animals or anything, but this is strictly an assumption, and not supported by the text,
http://biblehub.com/lexicon/genesis/3-21.htm

i've even heard a possibly legit arg that goes "they had furry hides up until then, but evolved furless skin after that,"
"God making them a coat of skins." Which i guess you reject the "evolved" part, but the point is to see that God could "make" them a "coat of skins" by other means than killing, and also that the "skins" are likely as symbolic as the fig leaves anyway.
"Ego" sounds better the more i hear it tbh

YES! I already swallowed my tongue on that one, in a response to bygrace post #123 LOL
If we try to take all scripture literally, we can as I have! be pron to presume! God can Create what ever covering He chooses, If in fact He Created everything else, It does not say He skinned or killed anything, to make coverings, Just Coats of skin!
Anyway it is beyond my ability to truly say!