Confidence or Arrogance?

[farouk]

There it is! " . . . and be searched by the Scriptures continually!"

It's the difference between a quest for knowledge, and a thirst for life that comes only in humble submission.

Much love!
mark

So often getting one's diploma masks the attitude: "I love me, who do you love?"

The humble Servant of Philippians 2 should, rather, be our Guide to Scripture, by His Spirit.

 

[Naomi25]

,

Well, i do think plastic, showman type pastors certainly qualify in the “look at me! I am always right!” category, but they have been around for centuries - the flagellants of the Middle Ages; the Big Tent Revivalists of the turn of the last century; The Mega Churches of today......it is all cult of personality stuff. I am most concerned with the fire and brimstone, lack of empathy, small town types, who preach doctrinal purity over the fruits of the spirit because they preach what they know. They tend to lurk quietly on school boards and in low level, local government positions where they cultivate a ‘big fish/little pond’ persona and are rewarded mightly by their congregation which is filled with local big shots, who ‘run the the town’. They, like all narcissists preach a gospel of compliance and duty; spending their time identifying those loyal and annihilating those who are not.

Flashy is usually not respected and therefore not really taken seriously by the groupies who follow them like they used to follow the Grateful Dead before they were saved at an alter call or other big Jesus event. The small time pastors are taken seriously because they preach insecurity, every move we make is a choice between damnation or salvation.....whether it is preached as once saved always saved and practiced as ‘everything I do reflects my elect statuus’ or i can lose my salvation with every action. The real message is, trust in my message about God, i am the strength you need not the whimp gospel preached by my inferiors out there, who pervert or twist the gospel into what their people want to hear.

Well...I agree that the fundamentalist type is damaging...just as the extremely liberal preacher would be. But...I'm not really sure that that type is only to be found in small towns...although, not having visited all the small towns here in Australia, let alone in the US, I can't really say that with any confidence!
But, going on my district, the towns around me, I have to say that small towns have not resulted in that, thankfully. We certainly have our problems, but uptight dogma is not one of them. Well...there's one family in our church that is a little like that, but it's not the Pastor!
Most of the local Pastors I know are actually great; they do well at balancing the word of God with loving like Christ did...and goodness knows that is not an easy balancing act at times!
I suppose, in response to those who would pervert the gospel (truth plus love!), all we can do is our best to encourage both in our church and community.

 

[101G]

What does that mean?

Thanks!

First, thank you for asking. second, Diversified Oneness express the doctrine that God "Shared" himself in flesh, hence he's the G243 allos of himself in the likeness of a man.

which means the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, is the only one person in the Godhead, who holds both titles "Father" without flesh, and "Son" with flesh.

what's the different in the trinity and "diversified Oneness" is that instead three separate person with one nature, we believe and the scriptures confirm this that there is only one person with one nature, "SHARED".

that's the big difference, "Share" vs "Separation". one God who is one Spirit, that's only one person "share" in flesh as the "Another" of himself.

with these premises understood, the doctrine of the Godhead is confirmed by scripture.

so instead of 3 separate person, only one Person shared with two titles.

PICJAG.

 

[farouk]

Well...I agree that the fundamentalist type is damaging...just as the extremely liberal preacher would be. But...I'm not really sure that that type is only to be found in small towns...although, not having visited all the small towns here in Australia, let alone in the US, I can't really say that with any confidence!
But, going on my district, the towns around me, I have to say that small towns have not resulted in that, thankfully. We certainly have our problems, but uptight dogma is not one of them. Well...there's one family in our church that is a little like that, but it's not the Pastor!
Most of the local Pastors I know are actually great; they do well at balancing the word of God with loving like Christ did...and goodness knows that is not an easy balancing act at times!
I suppose, in response to those who would pervert the gospel (truth plus love!), all we can do is our best to encourage both in our church and community.

Whoever is preaching, it depends on how carefully they have based their sermon on Scripture...

 

[marks]

First, thank you for asking. second, Diversified Oneness express the doctrine that God "Shared" himself in flesh, hence he's the G243 allos of himself in the likeness of a man.

which means the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, is the only one person in the Godhead, who holds both titles "Father" without flesh, and "Son" with flesh.

what's the different in the trinity and "diversified Oneness" is that instead three separate person with one nature, we believe and the scriptures confirm this that there is only one person with one nature, "SHARED".

that's the big difference, "Share" vs "Separation". one God who is one Spirit, that's only one person "share" in flesh as the "Another" of himself.

with these premises understood, the doctrine of the Godhead is confirmed by scripture.

so instead of 3 separate person, only one Person shared with two titles.

PICJAG.

How do you reconcile Jesus speaking to the Father, the Holy Spirit descending to the Son as the Father speaks above, those things?

Much love!
Mark

 

[Phoneman777]

What you mean is your religions interpretation of the bible truth, that makes BOL as right as you are. And it is one thing in common with all the religious, they will never give up there religion to follow after Christ.

Joh_12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

dont need religion to follow Christ, just plain and simple faith....

You mean "faith" which comes by hearing John 14:15 of God's Word say "If ye love Me, keep My commandments", or "faith" which comes from the deceitful, desperately wicked heart of a man who claims to have a corner on the market of
love
love
love, but says, "I don't have to obey God's commandments, no matter what I hear in the Word of God"???

 

[101G]

How do you reconcile Jesus speaking to the Father, the Holy Spirit descending to the Son as the Father speaks above, those things?

Much love!
Mark

this is the beauity of Diversified Oneness,
#1. the Son Standing in the water at his baptism is the "Share" of God in flesh, per Phil 2:6-8.

#2. the Holy Spirit desending in the likeness as a Dove.

#3. what I'm about to say is not for argument .. ok, but for scriptual FACTS. please show from the bible that the Voice at the baptimal is the Voice of God. remember, not argument but for seeking TRUTH. and we cannot afford any assumptions.

now when you get that scripture proving that the "Voice" at the Lord's Baptism is God's voice, if you will answer me this,

in John 1:3 reconcicle it with Isaiah 44:24 as to who "made" all things. is this the same person or not.

with your answer it will answer your question at the same time.... and when you do, you will see "Diversified Oneness" clearly.
Love in Christ Jesus,

PICJAG.

 

[mjrhealth]

You mean "faith" which comes by hearing John 14:15 of God's Word say "If ye love Me, keep My commandments", or "faith" which comes from the deceitful, desperately wicked heart of a man who claims to have a corner on the market of
love
love
love, but says, "I don't have to obey God's commandments, no matter what I hear in the Word of God"???

You mean Christ words this one,

Joh_13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

and again

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

see Love is all we need, just like the beetles song.

Id like to see you get pulled over by a policeman for speeding than you tell Him, "you cant fine me I only keep the law, Im not under it?, such foolishness

 

[aspen]

Well...I agree that the fundamentalist type is damaging...just as the extremely liberal preacher would be. But...I'm not really sure that that type is only to be found in small towns...although, not having visited all the small towns here in Australia, let alone in the US, I can't really say that with any confidence!
But, going on my district, the towns around me, I have to say that small towns have not resulted in that, thankfully. We certainly have our problems, but uptight dogma is not one of them. Well...there's one family in our church that is a little like that, but it's not the Pastor!
Most of the local Pastors I know are actually great

Oh i agree with you....most pastors are decent people...even most fundamentalist pastors out there are but there is a desire for tyranny in the pulpit I cannot deny - it is like the Israelites in the desert desiring the security of despotism and slavery in exchange for security. My use of “small town” as a description of a pastor was not meant literally - it was more of a description of a lone wolf minister - someone who is accountable only to his own persona he has built for himself.

 

[Phoneman777]

You mean Christ words this one,

Joh_13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

and again

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

see Love is all we need, just like the beetles song.

Id like to see you get pulled over by a policeman for speeding than you tell Him, "you cant fine me I only keep the law, Im not under it?, such foolishness

You like to quote what John has to say about love? Good. Unlike you, I enjoy ALL of his quotes. Here's one you're sure to hate:

"Hereby we do know that we know Him if we keep His commandments. He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a LIAR and the truth is not in Him. But whoso keepeth His word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in Him. "

 

[Naomi25]

Whoever is preaching, it depends on how carefully they have based their sermon on Scripture...

Well...this is absolutely true, of course. But I think Aspen's point is that it can be as true as can be, but if we don't live by that truth and show that truth, it may as well be not be. There is a fine line we must walk where truth and love (real, biblical love, like that of Christ) meet, and unless we find it, truth is hollow and love empty and what we claim to believe falls flat. Of course, we have the example of Christ, proving to us that truth and love work together perfectly, and there is power in that, I think...that is where God works.

 

[aspen]

I think loving others perfectly, facilitates the fruit of the Spirit, sort of like a finely tuned instrument

 

[Naomi25]

Oh i agree with you....most pastors are decent people...even most fundamentalist pastors out there are but there is a desire for tyranny in the pulpit I cannot deny - it is like the Israelites in the desert desiring the security of despotism and slavery in exchange for security. My use of “small town” as a description of a pastor was not meant literally - i was more of a description of a lone wolf minister - someone who is accountable to his own persona he has built for himself.

I suppose that's why scripture tells us that teachers will be judged more harshly than others. There is that...ah...power? there, in that position. People do look to them for guidance, and that, in itself, lends itself I suppose to play merry havoc with even 'decent' men's ego's. Goodness knows what it does to men who are already inclined towards arrogrance! Like gasoline on a flame!

 

[brakelite]

My impression is that "Christian Forums" are made up mainly of the denominationally indoctrinated who argue among themselves. Who have never studied beyond their own constraints. Rarely do you find anyone who studied objectively for years before picking a church and landing on a position.

Not my experience.

 

[aspen]

Well, I tend to think that any time we decide to share our opinion, there is a high likelihood we will be judged as arrogant by somebody. To my horror, I have recently discovered (ok, it was today) that the very act of sharing new information with some people is viewed as arrogant because you may be interpreted by the person as talking down to them.....wow and I mean WOW.

I’m starting to see for the first time why people hated Obama - how dare he share clear and informative speeches - who does he think he is!! And then, there is the black issue.....a black man giving me good information I can use?! As if I needed information from the likes of him?!

It is an ugly view of Americans, people! And completely antichrist.

In any case, asserting our opinions whenever they flash into our heads is the real problem. Opinions need to be examine and rarely shared.

 

[brakelite]

The problem with this is in their denominational bias that filters scripture. So they never interpret it beyond that particular twist.

I see problems in denominational bias also. Yet in my own, more so than in any other, there is robust debate, discussion, and study on all aspects of scripture where many do disagree with the official guidelines of the church. This is as it should be. Our church's guidelines are just that. Not a creed whereupon fellowship is awarded or rejected, but simply a genuine summary of belief that will always be open to further revelation.
I also see problems in bias against denominations. A failure to agree with a denominations understanding of scripture because "you see" things different, and you put it down to "their denominational bias" when all along it may be your own. Non-denominationalism is in fact the largest denomination, and by its very nature is prejudiced against other denominations. The difference between yours and mine, is mine is at least relatively uniform in beliefs...but not as you suppose because it is demanded, but people join it because that is what they already have discovered for themselves. Very few are born into my denomination, though there are families that go back several generations. They join often from others as a result of searching for more than what their previous denomination offered.

Yes we get that from a few here, dont we.. I learned I understand so it must be.. just another personal twist, based on ones own understanding, so few will take things to God.

You reject the law...therefore in you is no light. Isaiah 8:20

 

[brakelite]

Rarely do you find anyone who studied objectively for years before picking a church and landing on a position.

I would hope not. If someone is genuine in searching for truth, and trusting in God and not in their own understanding, then I would be amazed it took so long for God to reveal to such an earnest searcher where to go. For me, it took two weeks for God to start revealing truths I had never seen in previous denominations I had been committed to, and the direction He wanted me to take. It actually was my own distrust of that direction and my own ignorance that it took me 5 years to commit to the actual denomination that taught all the truths that I had discovered.
Since then I discovered I was not the only one who held such a prejudice. Once I got past that, honesty compelled me to admit that my church not only taught truth as I had read in scripture, but also welcomed challenges and debate. Your inference that all denominations 'demand blind obedience" seems to me a very general brush stroke my personal experience rejects.
I have found in my experience on this forum an actual reluctance to seriously debate specific doctrines that are more unique to my denomination. Folk prefer to denounce my church than to discuss what we actually teach. The old "shoot the messenger" trip.

 

[mjrhealth]

"Hereby we do know that we know Him if we keep His commandments. He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a LIAR and the truth is not in Him. But whoso keepeth His word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in Him. "

Yes to love, why because you cant keep the ten commandments it is impossible, so you see, by saying you keep them your are constantly lying, and in denial, it is why Christ came, why Christ did, because no man could. And Christ has no reason to help you keep them so that you can boast, of which you have no reason because you cant,

 

[mjrhealth]

You reject the law...therefore in you is no light. Isaiah 8:20

Hmm funny Christ seems to think I have the light,

Joh_8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Oh and no law...

 

[brakelite]

Hmm funny Christ seems to think I have the light,

Joh_8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Oh and no law...

Hmmm, funny how you think Christ would disagree with and contradict what the Spirit of Christ had previously revealed as truth to His own prophets.