Conjecture

[stunnedbygrace]

And I don't question his experiences, only his doctrine.

And you are right, it's not looking like there will be much opportunity even for discussion, let alone agreement.

Sometimes that's how it is.

Much love!

Yeah, well...he finds your doctrine questionable as well.

 

[marks]

Yeah, well...he finds your doctrine questionable as well.

So I've gathered.

 

[Philip James]

And for the wrong we receive handfuls of ashes!



I wait as patiently as I can . . . to fall into the hands of my God Who is a consuming fire! Burn it all away!

But whatever we may say about what form this judgment takes, still the words are used, "will suffer loss".

Hi marks,
Careful now, pretty soon you'll have peopke thinking that purgatory isn't such a crazy idea after all

Peace be with you!

 

[Enoch111]

Careful now, pretty soon you'll have people thinking that purgatory isn't such a crazy idea after all

Why would anyone in their right mind continue to believe in a fantasy when the truth is readily available in Scripture? On top of that, a very important portion of Scripture is twisted to represent Purgatory.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Not exactly. We can in fact build each other with our testimonies, to a point. And under certain conditions. One of those conditions would be, to me, that the fruit of the testimony is Biblical Christianity, therein lies the problem. If the testimony produces something unbiblical it does not edify, naturally.

I believe that as God intends for us to unified in both knowledge and faith, I think this refers to that we all hold to the same teachings, and that we all believe in the same ways, and in this unity, there would be no argument over doctrine or experience. Unity of faith in my understanding is that we have a like precious faith as with each other, and with the Apostles, and if that is so, there won't be any concern. We'll recognize the Spirit in each other, and we'll all teach the same things.

But an over-emphasis on the experiential and in particular when there is doctrinal division, I think the doctrines need to be settled first before we start trying so sort out with each other our internal and subjective understandings of things we've experienced.

Clear as mud again I expect! But hopefully this helps share my thoughts. And I appreciate your discussion!

Much love!

Amen, that's if we all male and female not only speak, and walk the same walk as Jesus did In words and deeds, so that we can teach our offspring, and they can teach their offspring from traditions.

I find in my experience I was not always saved to hear or do exactly what I was suppose to do as a true follower of Christ, but now I know better rightly dividing the scriptures unto the Lord.

Love always, Walter and Deborah

 

[marks]

Once again, I do not see where epi's testimony is something unbiblical. And as far as working out some agreement on doctrine, that will not happen between you and epi, so...

Of course, while agreement does seem to be a ways away, yet there remains that he's shared a number of thoughts I've found to be very valuable. I've commented on them in some of these threads with both likes and replies, though I wonder that as much attention is paid to those posts.

I don't feel discussion is without merit.

Much love!

 

[Philip James]

Why would anyone in their right mind continue to believe in a fantasy when the truth is readily available in Scripture?

Hello Enoch,

@marks just posted the Truth from scripture, weren't you paying attention?

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

Christ IS risen!
Alleluia!

 

[marks]

Amen, that's if we all male and female not only speak, and walk the same walk as Jesus did In words and deeds, so that we can teach our offspring, and they can teach their offspring from traditions.

Wouldn't that be a nice life!

It seems to me that it goes the other way, as humanity continues to degrade.

Much love!

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Wouldn't that be a nice life!

It seems to me that it goes the other way, as humanity continues to degrade.

Much love!

Yeah, he says to continue in his words so that you can know the truth and do that which is well pleasing in his sight.

 

[marks]

Yeah, he says to continue in his words so that you can know the truth and do that which is well pleasing in his sight.

Another beautify simplicity!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Hi marks,
Careful now, pretty soon you'll have peopke thinking that purgatory isn't such a crazy idea after all

Peace be with you!

Hi Philip James,

I'm not thinking that's too likely to happen!



Much love and blessings!

 

[Philip James]

Hi Philip James,

I'm not thinking that's too likely to happen!



Much love and blessings!

You're probably right, noncatholics are free to discuss being purged by the consuming fire, but Catholics? Must be wrong...

Blessing and peace to you too!

 

[marks]

You're probably right, noncatholics are free to discuss being purged by the consuming fire, but Catholics? Must be wrong...

Blessing and peace to you too!

Oh you crack me up!

How long does it last? I'm thinking it's done in a moment.

Much love!!

 

[Philip James]

Oh you crack me up!

How long does it last? I'm thinking it's done in a moment.

Much love!!

How long is that 'moment' for the one going through it?

I think I heard somewhere that time is relative.

Peace!

 

[marks]

How long is that 'moment' for the one going through it?

I think I heard somewhere that time is relative.

Peace!

The thing is, I don't see it as torment or punishment, nor that it lasts any appreciable time to the one experiencing, although to be certain that's my - conjecture - based on my understanding there is no punishment meted out to us.

Much love!

 

[Philip James]

The thing is, I don't see it as torment or punishment, nor that it lasts any appreciable time to the one experiencing, although to be certain that's my - conjecture - based on my understanding there is no punishment meted out to us.

Much love!

Your 'conjecture' is entirely consistent with the doctrine of purgatory.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

Peace!

 

[aspen]

It seems to me that you discount opinion too quickly, Epi. There is a such thing as educated opinion (although rare, these days), which can reveal God. With the advent of the internet, there has been a glut of under educated opinion, which needs to be sifted, but people are very capable of describing revelation - some even wrote a book about it!

 

[amadeus]

You can't make a law out of grace....since living from the heart does not produce laundry lists.

Indeed, but people have compiled a list of laws from the NT including their breakdown or understanding of grace as if they were now under a new set of written laws to replace or add to the 10 or 613 of the OT. Even in the OT God was looking at people's hearts rather than using some sort of merit/demerit system for laws broken. The following words written by David make this clear:

"O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall show forth thy praise.
For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." Psalm 51:15-17

What David wrote then applies also now... as our God has not changed.

 

[Stranger]

That's not the issue. The bible points to a living relationship with God...not just with a book. This is where the dishonesty lies. The bible even says....the letter kills but the Spirit gives life. So the dishonesty continues.

Sure it is the issue. If the Bible is not the Word of God, how can you trust it pointing to a living relationship with God. Are you saying you trust the words of men to point you to a living relationship with God. How ridiculous.

If you use the Bible, the written Word of God, the Letter, for any purpose other than what the Spirit of God created it for, then it does kill. But, if you use the Bible for the purpose that the Spirit of God gave it, then it gives life. It is still the written Word either way.

Thus Jesus can say " It is written". Which is what we should say also.

Stranger

 

[amadeus]

Yet even this "simplicity" is heavily disputed!

Much of the disputing comes from support one person's pet verse in support of his pet doctrine versus another person's pet verse in support of his pet doctrine. Only God always renders the correct interpretation. Who is hearing God correctly?

We, all of us, let our "logical" minds lead us too often instead of the Holy Spirit. Then we even argue about why the Holy Spirit seems to be leading two different people in opposing directions. The correct answer does NOT always lie with the best debater or even with the person who has memorized more of the Bible.