Connecting the dots = a pre-tribulation rapture.

[CrowCross]

There is Genuine Hope for you and @CrowCross IF you love Christ = Because HE does love you!!!

Sooooooooooo, lets get this straight...real straight David. ....Because I don't believe the way you believe..I'M LOST...and you're not....and there is still Genuine Hope for me?

 

[CrowCross]

but in both cases eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, buying and selling, planting and building. His point, driven home with two examples, was about the suddenness and the unexpectedness of the coming of the end for the wicked.

Exactly...<smile>...you're getting it...<larger smile>...the social economic times were looking good....<chuckle>....then suddenly it all happened....<grins>.....things changed...<chuckles>....You explained the world at the end of the tribulation. <smile>.

 

[David in NJ]

Sooooooooooo, lets get this straight...real straight David. ....Because I don't believe the way you believe..I'M LOST...and you're not....and there is still Genuine Hope for me?

Where did i say your were lost?
The disciples whom Christ went and walked with after His Resurrection were BLESSED Beyond Measure!!!

And you are angry with me because you did not understand that passage of scripture and the BEAUTIFUL LOVE of GOD in it for us?

 

[CrowCross]

That's a stretch.
Noah was aware of what God was going to do = end all life.
He then spends 70 to 100 years building an ark to save his household lol.
Looks like he knew he was going to be present when the sudden destruction came and only his faith in Gods salvation was going to save him. So shall be the coming of the Son of man.

What about the rest of my post?
Why isn't the last day our resurrection day in Jn 6? It's the last day for the ungodly in JN 12 right?

You keep pointing towards a pre-trib rapture. That's great!!!!

While Noah built the ark....things looked good.... After all it wouldn't make sense to build an ark at the end of the flood. Then again for the post-tribber mind set...who knows that might make sense. Does it make sense to you Jeff?

 

[PinSeeker]

Exactly...<smile>...you're getting it...<larger smile>...

Always did...

Maybe you are, now...

the social economic times were looking good....<chuckle>

Nothing to do with "social economic times"... But they had no idea sudden judgment was about to come upon them...

....then suddenly it all happened....<grins>.....things changed...<chuckles>....

It will be sudden and unexpected, yes.

You explained the world at the end of the tribulation. <smile>.

Well, no, I explained it at the time the flood came in Noah's day... it's suddenness and unexpectedness, and then at the time of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah... it's suddenness and unexpectedness, and, yes, how it will be all the way up to just prior to Jesus's return, which will be, yes, after the time of tribulation has ended. Which I've been very clear about all along; yes, after the time of tribulation is ended, Jesus will return, and the final judgment will be exacted on the unrepentant.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[David in NJ]

Where did i say your were lost?
The disciples whom Christ went and walked with after His Resurrection were BLESSED Beyond Measure!!!

And you are angry with me because you did not understand that passage of scripture and the BEAUTIFUL LOVE of GOD in it for us?

@CrowCross
Why are you angry?

Did the disciples of Christ get angry at Christ's Love for them by opening their minds to the Scriptures?

 

[ewq1938]

You keep pointing towards a pre-trib rapture. That's great!!!!

The flood is not symbolic of the tribulation but the wrath of God that comes after the trib., Thus, the story of Noah is likened to post-trib with God's elect being removed/protected before the unsaved are punished for the wicked lives they lived before the flood.

Same with Lot. Wicked lives, an angel literally takes Lot and family away to safety and the wrath of God destroys Sodom. That's a posttrib type of a story as is Noah.

Nothing in the story is pre-trib related.

 

[PinSeeker]

I see the ark as a type of Christ. Jesus is our ark.

Much love!

"Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world" (Hebrews 1:1-2)

This is but one; Jesus appears ~ as a type/shadow ~ many, many times throughout the Old Testament. You know, Jesus said the whole Old Testament was about Him:

• "(Moses) wrote of Me..." (John 5:46)

• "...beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, (Jesus) interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself" (Luke 24:27).

• “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled” (Jesus, Luke 24:44).

• Philip found Nathanael and said to him, “We have found Him..." (Jesus) "...of whom Moses in the Law and also the prophets wrote, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph” (John 1:45).

Preaching to the choir, I guess/hope... <smile>

Grace and peace to you, Marks!...

 

[PinSeeker]

The flood is not symbolic of the tribulation but the wrath of God that comes after the trib., Thus, the story of Noah is likened to post-trib with God's elect being removed/protected before the unsaved are punished for the wicked lives they lived before the flood.

Same with Lot. Wicked lives, an angel literally takes Lot and family away to safety and the wrath of God destroys Sodom. That's a posttrib type of a story as is Noah.

No one was "removed" from creation. They were spared of the judgment God placed upon the world in Noah's day and Sodom and Gomorrah in Lot's. And so it will be in the final judgment: clothed in His righteousness, we will stand in the judgment and will not be subject to the second death. No one will be removed from creation except the unrepentant, who will be... sent away... into eternal punishment. <shudder> All of creation will be made new.

Nothing in the story is pre-trib related.

Well, we will have come through the time of tribulation... been brought through it, actually. And then, we will not be subject to the second death, we will stand in the final judgment, and enter into the promised rest, the eternal sabbath, the new heaven and new earth.

Grace and peace.

 

[jeffweeder]

You keep pointing towards a pre-trib rapture. That's great!!!!

Noah's day is about escaping the day of Gods wrath (righteous judgment). You agree?

God provided a means of salvation that required one's faith.
If Noah would have ignored Gods exact specifications for the Ark, what would have happened to his household?

Thankfully Noah paid attention to the details and escaped the life ending event that was being poured out all around him.
So it shall be when the Son of man is revealed, as 2 Thess 1 attests.

Those who reject the Gospel of salvation will suffer Eternal separation from his second coming presence, while those who receive the Gospel will be glorified in his second coming presence forever.

2Thess 1
This is a plain indication of God’s righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

On this forum certain post-trip and one who accepts AMillennialism asked for where the bible speaks of a Pre-tribulation rapture.

Here is my response.

The bible doesn't outright say...."the rapture will be followed by a 7 year tribulation. The bible also doesn't say outright there is a trinity consisting of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. But, if you connect the dots a Christian can understand the basic principles of the Godhead.

When the dots surround the rapture of the church are connected the pre-trib rapture becomes obvious.

For example I have shown you the bible presents Jesus as returning on a white horse in Rev 19 and another return where Jesus isn't riding a white horse.

Get serious. Jesus will not be literally riding a white horse when He returns any more than He will have a literal sword coming out of His mouth that He uses to literally slay people. Revelation 19 is a symbolic description of His one future return. His one future return is described literally in other scriptures.

I've even presented you with depictions of the event. No white horse at the rapture while defections show a white horse at the Rev 19 return. That's one dot.

I've presented you with a social economic picture mentioned by Christ Jesus that speaks of His return and describes it like the days of Noah and not......which don't align with the social economic days of the end of the tribulation. Another dot to connect.

You have been presented several verses that show Christians....the bride of Christ... are not destined for wrath or the trials of the 7 year tribulation. Another dot to connect.

You have been shown the 7 year tribulation is a judgement for the people of the earth...and should understand Jesus already paid the price for that Judgement concerning Christians on the cross 2,000 years ago.....another dot to connect.

Another dot to connect would be the many mansions (dwelling places) in heaven that Jesus is currently building and the promise of His return to take us there. This fits in with the Jewish engagement and wedding of the times of Christ.

I have shown you another dot with the 2 Thes 2 mention of the gathering and removal of the restrainer and departure that happens prior to the 7 year tribulation. One more dot to connect.

You have been shown that the Church isn't mentioned by name after after chapter 4 of Revelations (19 times prior to chapter 5) and then not again to chapter 20. ....this is another dot.

There's more dots to connect that are buried deeper in scripture that I won't mention.

Dot + dot + dot + dot + dot + dot + dot = a pre-trib rapture. All you need to do is connect them.

Where are your dots to connect that show a single return of Jesus at the end of the tribulation?

The dots that connect pre-trib just lead to one big question mark of how in the world anyone can believe that nonsense.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Here is another dot:

One of the reasons I believe in a pre-trib rapture, there is no place for the body of Christ at His coming, only that we return with Jesus.

Matthew 24:30-31 KJV
30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

These are Israel.

No, the elect, according to scripture, are those who belong to Christ, which includes all Jew and Gentile believers. Who do you think are the elect in the following passage...

Romans 8:31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

Matthew 25:31-32 KJV
31) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats

These are the Gentiles, both righteous and unrighteous.

No, that is referring to all people, including Jews. Paul clearly taught that all people will stand before the judgment seat of Christ one day to give an account of themselves and to be judged (Romans 14:10-12 - crossref Isaiah 45:22-24).

Romans 14:10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written: “As I live, says the Lord, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God.”
12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.

Every knee shall bow to Christ when He comes with His angels and then give an account of themselves. That's what Matthew 25:31-46 is about. That includes both Jews and Gentiles.

Joel 3:2 KJV
2) I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

Joel 3:2 LITV
2) I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat. And I will enter into judgment with them there, for My people and My inheritance, Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations; and they shared out My land.

When Jesus returns, He will send the angels to gather Israel back to their promised land, and then will gather the gentiles to be judged.

They (the gentiles) will be separated righteous and wicked, based on whether they supplied the needs for Israel.

The Body of Christ is not judged righteous or wicked based on works, but is righteous being baptized into the body of Christ.

All people, including the body of Christ, will be judged according to their works when Jesus returns.

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

2 Corinthians 5:9 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

One's works reflect whether they have true faith or not and whether they belong to Christ or not.

 

[marks]

No, that is referring to all people, including Jews.

Don't you wish you could take a time machine back to those days? You could ask the Israelites, "Who are the Chosen, and who are the Nations?" Do you know what they would answer?

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Don't you wish you could take a time machine back to those days? You could ask the Israelites, "Who are the Chosen, and who are the Nations?" Do you know what they would answer?

Much love!

What kind of response is this? How about actually responding to what I said instead of asking silly questions? The Israellites of those days were mistaken about a lot of things, so it doesn't matter to me what they thought back then. Scripture teaches that the elect are those in the church (Romans 8:31-34). Do you deny that truth?

Other scripture indicates that all people will appear before Christ to give an account of themselves, not just Gentiles. Do you ever look at the meaning of the Greek words that are translated to English in our English Bibles? The word translated as "the nations" there in Matthew 25:32 is "ethnos" and it has several meanings. Clearly, Matthew 25:31-46 is talking about the judgment of individuals, not nations. So, it's talking about all people being gathered before Christ and then judged with those who are saved inheriting "eternal life" in the kingdom prepared for us from the foundation of the world and those who are not saved being cast into "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" for "everlasting punishment" at that time when Jesus comes.

Do you think anyone with a mortal body will inherit eternal life in the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world when Jesus comes with His angels?

 

[David in NJ]

Don't you wish you could take a time machine back to those days? You could ask the Israelites, "Who are the Chosen, and who are the Nations?" Do you know what they would answer?

Much love!

Marks,
You do not need a time machine = you need to believe the words of Christ and the Apostles

The Holy Spirit wrote this for us thru the Apostle Peter - 1 Peter 2:1-10

Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking, 2as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby, 3if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious,
5you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
6Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,

“Behold, I lay in Zion
A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,
And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.”
7Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,

“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”
8and

“A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”
They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

9But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
10who once were not a people but are now the people of God,
who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.

 

[jeffweeder]

Don't you wish you could take a time machine back to those days? You could ask the Israelites, "Who are the Chosen, and who are the Nations?" Do you know what they would answer?

Much love!

Saved Israelites would give a different answer today.

 

[David in NJ]

Don't you wish you could take a time machine back to those days? You could ask the Israelites, "Who are the Chosen, and who are the Nations?" Do you know what they would answer?

Much love!

Dear brother Marks = REJOICE

The Word of GOD is the Time Machine = Past/Present/Future

And the Holy Spirit Takes us there = Past/Present/Future

Many religions want to remain in the Past.

CHRIST Commands us to:
a.) Learn from the Past = Genesis/Moses/OT Prophets/Psalms
b.) Receive HIM Today = Present = Gospel, John chapter 3 , Hebrews chapter 4
c.) Wait for CHRIST's 2nd Coming and The Resurrection/Rapture = Future = Gospel/Apostles/Revelation

SHALOM

 

[CrowCross]

Nothing to do with "social economic times"... But they had no idea sudden judgment was about to come upon them...

Then why mention it? <smile>

 

[CrowCross]

The flood is not symbolic of the tribulation but the wrath of God that comes after the trib., Thus, the story of Noah is likened to post-trib with God's elect being removed/protected before the unsaved are punished for the wicked lives they lived before the flood.

Same with Lot. Wicked lives, an angel literally takes Lot and family away to safety and the wrath of God destroys Sodom. That's a posttrib type of a story as is Noah.

Nothing in the story is pre-trib related.

For starters...the tribulation is part of the wrath of God...judgement.

The flood of Noah as well as the destruction of Sodom was used to speak of the social economical conditions when Gods judgement fell.

 

[CrowCross]

Noah's day is about escaping the day of Gods wrath (righteous judgment). You agree?

That really doesn't matter....as I have said Jesus spells out the social economical conditions.
Those conditions will not be the social economic conditions at the end of the tribulation.