Convince me of Annihilationism

[bbyrd009]

And you haven't the guts or the stomach to stand up for what you believe by answering my question...does you God deliberately keep people alive for the sole purpose of inflicting pain and suffering?

definitely, from a certain pov. "Sole purpose" I dunno there, up to the sufferer I guess

 

[bbyrd009]

Those who persist in eternal torment can't take the Bible two ways and think doing so is acceptable. You need to decide which way you want to take scripture. You claim to believe that the wages of sin is death, and believe is so it is. You also claim that eternal torment answers that being a reflection of God justice... so you say.
But what happens to this torment... this"death" you believe means the same thing, after God casts death and the grave into the lake of fire, which you all agree means the end of both? You cannot have the end of death and hell and at the same time have sin's wages continue forever.

nice
never saw that one before

 

[VictoryinJesus]

with an obvious answer, imo, they just have not cast death and hell into the lake yet, I guess, at the same time those in the kingdom have.
Now of course we will have to give up that kingdom that comes by observation, but oh well

The kingdom is within. Without are ...

 

[justbyfaith]

Goodness, who told you that??

The bible is leather , paper , and ink.

My bible says - Rom 10.13 “ For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.“

Do you really believe that only those who posses bibles in the world , can be saved?
Half the people in the world have never read one.

The Bible is not part of the godhead.

A person can call on "the name of Jesus" and not be saved because they are calling on the name of a different Jesus than the Jesus of the Bible (see 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 (kjv)).

The gospel will be published in all nations as a testimony, and then the end shall come (Matthew 24:14, Mark 13:10).

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would lead us into all truth (John 16:13); and one of the ways that He did and does this is by inspiring the holy scriptures to be written as a revelation of who the Lord is (2 Timothy 3:16).

Not having a Bible is one thing...rejecting what it says when you are aware of what it says is another.

Is there a scripture that without contradiction says the fire can't go out? It says the fire is unquenchable... Which means it cannot be put out, but it doesn't mean it won't go out when it runs out of fuel.

How then is it everlasting (see Matthew 25:41)?

Those who persist in eternal torment can't take the Bible two ways and think doing so is acceptable. You need to decide which way you want to take scripture. You claim to believe that the wages of sin is death, and believe is so it is. You also claim that eternal torment answers that being a reflection of God justice... so you say.
But what happens to this torment... this"death" you believe means the same thing, after God casts death and the grave into the lake of fire, which you all agree means the end of both? You cannot have the end of death and hell and at the same time have sin's wages continue forever.

The definition for death is separation. Therefore, the wages of sin is death (eternal separation from God)...Romans 6:23.

Since the Bible speaks of the wages of sin being death, and also speaks of eternal torments for the unbelieving sinner who rejects Christ's forgiveness, I think that your beef is not with me but with God's word.

Also; the lake of fire is identified as the second death.

 

[CoreIssue]

And you haven't the guts or the stomach to stand up for what you believe by answering my question...does you God deliberately keep people alive for the sole purpose of inflicting pain and suffering?

God created us as eternal beings.

 

[Davy]

This is exactly the reason you're wrong. Rev 22 takes place after death and hell are cast into the Lake of Fire.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the Rev.22:14-15 verses are talking about the Rev.20 timeline of the "thousand years". Just because that is written of in Rev.22 doesn't mean it happens after Christ's thousand years reign. You have to remember that the way God's Word is often written, especially in the Old Testament prophets, the timelines can jump quickly. The Rev.22:14-15 verses jump back to the Rev.20 thousand years timeline.

 

[Davy]

....
I find it interesting that your concept of the 1000 year reign is quite different from Davy's, since you believe the 1000 year reign will take place in the heavens and he does not, as shown by this post of his-


I personally don't know where the 1000 year reign will take place (heavens or earth) but I think you make a good point that it could be in heaven since New Jerusalem comes down later on.

I don't think you understand what I've said. I agree with the Scripture; Rev.19 is Jesus' 2nd coming, Rev.20 begins His thousand years reign on earth with His elect. It is on earth because Rev.5:10 says His elect will reign "on the earth". So good luck trying to get around that, if that's what you're attempting. Rev.20:9 also shows the "camp of the saints" is on earth when Satan is loosed to drive the nations to attempt to attack it.

The time of Christ's thousand years reign is going to start... some earth changes. God's River will flow out of the millennial sanctuary in Jerusalem on earth, healing whatever waters it contacts. The tree of life will also return to earth. This begins at Jesus' return, not after the thousand years. After the thousand years there won't be a temple. And the Ezekiel 47 Scripture is showing a temple for those waters to flow, which means the millennial timing.

 

[marks]

Yes, knowing God is the essence of having eternal life, for without them it simply cannot be. But are you saying eternal life is not existing forever? Are you suggesting there is an end to the existence of the redeemed, while the sinner does exist forever in torment?

Hi brakelite, you ask the good questions! No, I'm not suggesting an end to the existence of the redeemed. But I'm saying eternal life is not defined by longevity, rather, by proximity, if you will.

Eternal life is relationship with God, being infused with His life, again, if you will. And since God lives forever in life, that is what we do.

Look at the inverse. Eternal life is to know God, then eternal death is not knowing God, no relationship.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Thus is it not incumbent upon you to prove that the sinners are equal recipients of that life which enables them to experience the eternal suffering and torment so many claim is their 'just reward'?

No, I don't think we can divorce the life God gives us from our experience of that life.

But as for the sinners, the Bible treats it as so, speaking of their everlasting torment. Eternal life is knowing God, and experiencing the benefit of that relationship. Eternal death is not knowing God, and not experiencing the benefit of that relationship.

Much love!
Mark

 

[marks]

yet you do not buy you and your sons will be here with me
hmm

I don't know what you mean.

 

[marks]

I have explained why my position is what it is already on this thread. [You may wish to read my posts before continuing.] I am not going to change simply because the majority may disagree. The majority of the leadership in Jerusalem were opposed to Jesus, but he was always willing to stand alone. My belief may not be equal to the knowledge that He had, but as they were most certainly wrong to oppose him in spite of their numbers, until a better explanation or clear revelation from God to me to the contrary is expressed, I won't switch sides simply to appease or agree with any majority. The best I can do is return to the "lowest room" and leave it in the hands of God.

Amadeus, thank you for the discussion!

Much love!
Mark

 

[bbyrd009]

The parts that I formerly have loved, if they aren't dead already, will be shortly by God's grace. Whatever lives later, is whatever God has recreated. I may not love that yet, but I'm sure it'll be okay, because I trust Him.

but I doubt it, ok.

You are still looking up and looking forward to going up to heaven after you have literally died I guess?

 

[Helen]

Is there a scripture that without contradiction says the fire can't go out? It says the fire is unquenchable... Which means it cannot be put out, but it doesn't mean it won't go out when it runs out of fuel.

...neither does it mean the souls are being torment .
It states THE FIRE is unquenchable.

And, as -"our God is a consuming fire.." stands to reason...

 

[Helen]

A person can call on "the name of Jesus" and not be saved because they are calling on the name of a different Jesus than the Jesus of the Bible (see 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 (kjv)).

The gospel will be published in all nations as a testimony, and then the end shall come (Matthew 24:14, Mark 13:10).

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would lead us into all truth (John 16:13); and one of the ways that He did and does this is by inspiring the holy scriptures to be written as a revelation of who the Lord is (2 Timothy 3:16).

Not having a Bible is one thing...rejecting what it says when you are aware of what it says is another.



How then is it everlasting (see Matthew 25:41)?



The definition for death is separation. Therefore, the wages of sin is death (eternal separation from God)...Romans 6:23.

Since the Bible speaks of the wages of sin being death, and also speaks of eternal torments for the unbelieving sinner who rejects Christ's forgiveness, I think that your beef is not with me but with God's word.

Also; the lake of fire is identified as the second death.

Okay, enjoy what you believe. I hope it brings you joy and comfort for yourself, you family and your friends.

That is not the "Good News" that I read in the bible.

 

[bbyrd009]

The kingdom is within. Without are ...

exactly

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't know what you mean.

well no offense but of course not, that is the whole point marks

 

[marks]

well no offense but of course not, that is the whole point marks

Then you have achieved your goal.

 

[bbyrd009]

Then you have achieved your goal.

not sure what that might be, you might ask someone else, I mean unless you agree that you and your sons will be there with him? And iow also with Saul, the rejected king?

 

[marks]

not sure what that might be, you might ask someone else, I mean unless you agree that you and your sons will be there with him? And iow also with Saul, the rejected king?

I only have one son.

 

[bbyrd009]

I only have one son.

srsly?
marks why are you here, if you are determined to stay a hypocrite?