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Featured Convince me of Annihilationism

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by friend of, May 14, 2019.

  1. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

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    (speaking as a man) I'm feeling cognitively dissonant.

    I want to believe in Annihilationism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annihilationism. I want to believe scriptures such as Psalms 37:10 Psalms 37:20 Psalms 37:36 refer to the eternal state of sinful man rather than speaking only about life here on earth.


    In Genesis 4:13 Cain cries out that his punishment is more than he can bear. The Lord alleviates his punishment by warding off those who would seek his life.

    Revelation 22:15 occurs after creation of the New Heavens and Earth, and it states "but outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie." Why mention those outside the Kingdom in such a way as though they were still practicing these sinful habits after Death and Hell have been cast into the Lake of Fire?

    As a child of God, those that hold contempt in their hearts toward my Lord Jesus Christ are my enemies Psalm 139:22. Though I believe it is in accordance with Matthew 5:44 and Luke 6:35 that we pray for them anyway. May God be merciful even to those wicked when they come before Him in judgement.
     
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  2. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    First, not everything in revelation is chronological. Second, believe God's word, and be saved from the horrors of having to believe in eternal torment. You've already made a great start with those v verses from psalms... Keep it up... There are many more. And In the weight of many counselors...
     
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  3. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    If you want to be convinced, I feel certain that could happen.

    To me these answers depend on how one reads Scripture, whether literal, allegorical, like that.

    Much love!
     
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  4. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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  5. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Well the bible doesn't say...the soul that sins it shall be tormented forever and ever. The second death kills the soul.

    Rev. 14: 9-11 is the only reference I have come across in the bible that suggest an eternal torment for people...and it is for they who worship the beast and have taken his image.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
  6. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    @friend of

    For a start look at this verse:


    "Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
    For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish." Psalm 1:5-6


    But then...

    Eternal Torment for whom? Does to die or be dead or to perish or to be destroyed or to suffer corruption, mean eternal torment or does it simply mean no more opportunities, no more pleasure nor pain, no more good or evil or mediocre, no more perceptions, no more anything at all?


    “But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” Gen 2:17

    “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” Rom 6:23


    Where is the eternal torment or suffering in those verses? Or here?


    “He preserveth not the life of the wicked: but giveth right to the poor.” Job 36:6

    “And unto this people thou shalt say, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I set before you the way of life, and the way of death.” Jerem 21:8 No eternal suffering or torment here!


    “Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.” Ezek 18:4

    “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” I Cor 15:22

    “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:” Rom 5:12

    “For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.” I Cor 1:18

    “And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” Matt 10:28

    “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” II Peter 3:9


    “If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.” I Cor 3:17

    (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

    Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)” Phil 3:18-19

    “For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.” Gal 6:8

    “Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” Matt 3:12

    “For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.” Mal 4:1

    “The earth opened and swallowed up Dathan, and covered the company of Abiram.

    And a fire was kindled in their company; the flame burned up the wicked” Psalm 106-17-18

    “Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;” II Thess 1:9


    But what will others argue against it with these scriptures?

    “And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” Matt 25:46

    If the punishment is the wrath of God, well He never changes and ye, He does last forever. This does not mean that those punished last forever, does it?

    “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” Rev 20:10

    This above says that the beast and the false prophet will be tormented forever, but it says nothing about wicked men.

    “And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.” Rev 14:11

    When someone is “burned up” the smoke rises after the burned one is gone. He has no rest because he did not and does not have Jesus... but:

    “There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

    For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

    Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.” Heb 4:9-11

    Worms: Are they the soul of a man or the destroyer of a man’s flesh?

    “And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.” Isaiah 66:24

    “And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

    Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.” Mark 9:43-44

    “Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.” Isaiah 14:11

    “For the moth shall eat them up like a garment, and the worm shall eat them like wool: but my righteousness shall be for ever, and my salvation from generation to generation.” Isaiah 51:8


    There really is more than what I have gathered together here, but the point is: Why do so many verse mention Die, Death, Destruction, Perish, etc. as the punishment if it in fact should be “eternal torment”?
     
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  7. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Then you have not read the Bible.
    Matthew 25:46 New International Version (NIV)
    46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
     
  8. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 25:41 New International Version (NIV)
    41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
     
  9. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Daniel 12:2 New International Version (NIV)
    2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
     
  10. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    2 Thessalonians 1:9 New International Version (NIV)
    9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might
     
  11. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Revelation 14:11 New International Version (NIV)
    11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
     
  12. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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  13. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Considering that Adam died the day he ate from the tree, what does death mean?

    Much love!
    mark
     
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  14. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    True, sigh. The human emotions want this to be true, but...
     
  15. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    It means the loss of that which Jesus brought in a more abundant way:

    "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10

    Anyone who has not met Jesus remains dead... even though he walks around proclaiming that he is alive. Jesus made Life a possibility when to those whom there had seemingly been no possibility, no hope!

    "To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" Col 1:27

    What does death matter to one who has Life?

    "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6
     
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  16. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    So then you can be dead, yet still active and aware of your environment, and your experiences within that environment?
     
  17. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Jesus seemed to think so:

    "And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
    But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead." Matt 8:21-22


    What God calls Life is NOT what man calls life! In the following verses we see where Jesus changed his manner of speaking so that his own disciples could understand his meaning:

    "These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
    Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
    Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
    Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead." John 11:11-14
     
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  18. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Death does not mean the cessation of existence, considering that Adam died the day he at the fruit, and he did not cease to exist.

    But his existence was fundamentally changed, was it not?

    Much love!
     
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  19. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    But you have to define death.

    There is death as the world sees it. But it can be returned from.

    There is clinical death that sometimes can be returned from and sometimes cannot.

    Then there is true death, when the spirit leaves the body. That is final and only the resurrection then can bring one back.

    The Bible makes it clear anyone who suffers true is gone until the resurrection.

    So yes, Lazarus was asleep using the best terms they could understand at the time.

    Lazarus and similar did not experience true death. Their spirits had not left the body.

    One must understand the difference between resuscitation and resurrection.
     
  20. Ezra

    Ezra Well-Known Member

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    spiritual death --but imo God redeemed them he made clothing covering out of animal skins ..first shedding of Blood for the remission of sins
     
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