Daniels 70-Weeks Timeline

[Davy]

OK, here is a new thread to deal with the date of Jesus' crucifixion.

For what purpose would it serve? And I believe Jesus was crucified in A.D. 29, born 4 years actually prior to 0. Knowing that date still cannot be used to try and calculate the day for the end of this present world.

Those in Christ can know 3.5 days prior to Jesus' future return, but we still can't know what 'date' that will be on. Jesus said only The Father knows the date. And in Matthew 24, Lord Jesus even said He shortened the time of great tribulation for His elect's sake. Thus the final 1260 days period for the great tribulation has simply become a 'metaphor', and not a time we can accurately do prognostications with, like an astrologer would attempt.

Because He shortened the time of the future great tribulation, that means we cannot rely on any date setting for the end and His future return. It means instead we 'must'... rely on recognizing the Signs of the end He gave. And I find that many, many brethren don't have a clue about many of those Signs He gave.

 

[covenantee]

For what purpose would it serve?

To confirm and affirm God's immutable and ineffable Atonement Clock.

Read Chris's "The Atonement Clock".

 

[Christian Gedge]

To confirm and affirm God's immutable and ineffable Atonement Clock.

For one shocking second I thought you were saying I was "immutable and ineffable" then I saw "God's" clock.

Yes, there is an extraordinary count running beneath the pages of scripture. Get the free PDF version, or the published book here.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Daniel's (Little Horn)

This "Future" figure will be present on earth to see the (Second Coming) of Jesus Christ and (Final Judgement), as this figure will be slain by Jesus Christ and cast into the lake of fire (Future) unfulfilled

"Future" (Second Coming, Final Judgement) Below

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

I will grant you that the AoD that I believe already happened may somehow presage the coming of Antichrist. But I do believe that the AoD was the Roman Army in the 1st century that destroyed the Jewish temple. That was a very significant event, and it certainly would've had prophecy foretell it!

 

[Truth7t7]

I will grant you that the AoD that I believe already happened may somehow presage the coming of Antichrist. But I do believe that the AoD was the Roman Army in the 1st century that destroyed the Jewish temple. That was a very significant event, and it certainly wouldn't had prophecy foretell it!

Randys Fairy Tale!

Your belief and teaching is Randy's fictional dream

Fact is, History played no part in fulfillment of Jerusalems Desolation as you claim, The Desolation,, The Great Tribulation, and The Second Coming, are "Future" events unfulfilled

The desolation of Jerusalem and fulfilling of the gentiles is "Future" that will have eye witnesses of the "Future", Desolation, Great Tribulation, and Second Coming Of Jesus Christ In The Heavens

Luke 21:20-28KJV
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

[covenantee]

Randys Fairy Tale!

Your belief and teaching is Randy's fictional dream

Fact is, History played no part in fulfillment of Jerusalems Desolation as you claim, The Desolation,, The Great Tribulation, and The Second Coming, are "Future" events unfulfilled

The desolation of Jerusalem and fulfilling of the gentiles is "Future" that will have eye witnesses of the "Future", Desolation, Great Tribulation, and Second Coming Of Jesus Christ In The Heavens

Luke 21:20-28KJV
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Dispensational drivel and futurist fiction.

 

[covenantee]

For one shocking second I thought you were saying I was "immutable and ineffable" then I saw "God's" clock.

Yes, there is an extraordinary count running beneath the pages of scripture. Get the free PDF version, or the published book here.

We have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16), so you do have some measure of His immutability and ineffability.

 

[Truth7t7]

Dispensational drivel and futurist fiction.

Preterist Drivel and 66-70AD fiction, Daniel's Aod And The Great Tribulation Is "Future" Let Go Of Your 66-70AD Preterist Idol

 

[Truth7t7]

We have the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16), so you do have some measure of His immutability and ineffability.

Living the preterist dream, "Reformed Eschatology" Empty

 

[Timtofly]

Arguing about the future will not change the future.

The future can change. The past cannot.

 

[farouk]

Living the preterist dream, "Reformed Eschatology" Empty

@Truth7t7 I must confess I don't see the preterist view in the NT; good if one distinguishes Israel from the church; 1 Corinthians 10.32.

 

[covenantee]

The future can change. The past cannot.

Which is why the past is immune to df delusions and fallacies.

 

[Timtofly]

Which is why the past is immune to df delusions and fallacies.

Also immune to Preterist revisions.

 

[Timtofly]

However from the mid 20th century onwards Bible scholars have been questioning the AD33 crucifixion date. Most have come to the conclusion that it was 7 April AD30 and there are very good arguments for that. For example, have a look at the NIV and the ESV study Bibles. They support the early date. So do secular encyclopaedias.

Why do many think Jesus was only in the tomb for 24 hours?

 

[covenantee]

Also immune to Preterist revisions.

Such as?

 

[Christian Gedge]

Why do many think Jesus was only in the tomb for 24 hours?

Off topic - suggest you start a new topic for that one Tim.

 

[Timtofly]

Which is why the past is immune to df delusions and fallacies.

Such as?

 

[Zao is life]

Amen brother.

No decapitated 70th week.

You mean no magical mouse that can be programmed to highlight the 70th week and drag it all by itself into the final seven years before the return of Christ, or magically cut and paste it?

 

[Zao is life]

Is it absurd to say that the 'overspreading abominations' was the reinstatement of animal sacrifice in defiance of Christ's finished work? As Covenantee has been saying, this was the standard view of the historical church. Take for example, the historian Eusebius (Demonstratio Evangelica, Book 8 Chapter 2 – From Daniel):

"And he will confirm a Covenant with many one week," and in half the week the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away, and on the Holy Place shall come the abomination of desolation, and until the fullness of time fullness shall be given to the desolation ...

... moreover, half through this (Daniel 70th) week, during which He confirmed the said Covenant with many, the sacrifice and libation was taken away, and the abomination of desolation began, for in the middle of this week after the three-and-a-half days of His Teaching, at the time when He suffered, the Veil of the Temple was torn asunder from the top to the bottom, so that in effect from that time sacrifice and libation were taken away, and the abomination of desolation stood in the holy place, inasmuch as the Being had left them desolate ...

... At his Passion the Veil of the Temple was wholly rent in twain, and from that moment the sacrifice and libation well pleasing to God according to the ordinance of the Law was in effect taken away, and when it was removed, the abomination of desolation, as the prophecy before us says, appeared in its place.​

There are two separate times in Daniel that the word "abomination" is associated with the temple, with one huge difference:

1. The abomination of desolation (singular) set up by Antiochus IV Epiphanes did not result in the destruction of the temple: After he was ousted by the Maccabees, the temple was cleansed, rededicated, and reconsecrated to God.
2. The abominations (plural) that were committed in Daniel 9:27 did result in the destruction of the temple (Matthew 23:38; Daniel 9:27).

Antiochus is interesting, because

(i) he is the biblical type of the man of sin (compare Daniel 11:36-37 & 2 Thessalonians 2:4).
(ii) the abomination he set up is mentioned in Daniel 8:11; Daniel 11:31 and Daniel 12:11, and Daniel Chapter 12 is complemented (completed) by Jesus in Revelation 10 (compare Daniel 12:7 and Revelation 10:5-7), then compare the whole of Daniel Chapter 12 with Revelation Chapter 10).

Hence Daniel Chapter 12 both repeats what has been previously said about Antiochus, and seems to link this to the end of the Age and return of Christ - again showing that Antiochus IV Epiphanes is the type of the man of sin of 2 Thessalonians 2:4.

What you quoted about the tearing of the veil is interesting indeed, because:-

2 Thessalonians 2:4 uses the Greek word naos for "temple", which refers to the actual sanctuary of the temple (hieron is used for the entire temple complex in Jerusalem), and the last time the word naos is used in reference to the Jerusalem temple, is in the verses talking about the tearing of the veil in that temple.

hieron is used for the temple complex in Jerusalem in all these verses:

Matthew 4:5; Matthew 12:5-6; Matthew 21:12; Matthew 21:14-15; Matthew 21:23; Matthew 24:1; Matthew 26:55; Mark 11:11 & 15-16; Mark 11:27; Mark 12:35; Mark 13:1 & 3; Mark 14:49; Luke 2:27, 37 & 46; Luke 4:9; Luke 18:10; Luke 19:45 & 47; Luke 20:1 & 5; Luke 21:37-38; Luke 22:52-53; John 2:14-15; John 5:14; John 7:14 & 28; John 8:2, 20 & 59; John 10:23; John 11:56; John 18:20; Luke 24:53; Acts 2:46; Acts 3:1-3, 8 & 10; Acts 4:1; Acts 5:20-21 & 24-25; Acts 5:42; Acts 21:26-30; Acts 22:17; Acts 24:6, 12 & 18; Acts 25:8; Acts 26:21; 1 Corinthians 9:13.

Note: Jesus was not a priest in terms of Moses' law and was not allowed into the naos (the holy places, where only the priests were allowed).

naos is used in reference to the temple in Jerusalem only until the verses talking about the tearing of the veil:

-- in the temple complex (naos) --

Luke 1:9 & 21-22; Matthew 23:16-17 & 21; Matthew 23:35; Matthew 27:5.

-- Body of Christ (naos) --

(John 2:19 & 21; Matthew 26:61; Matthew 27:40; Mark 14:58; Mark 15:29)

-- The veil torn (naos) --

(Matthew 27:51; Mark 15:38; Luke 23:45.)

Then, Acts 7:48 and 17:24:

Acts 7:48a
But, the Most High does not dwell in temples (Greek: naos) made with hands.

Acts 17:24
The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of Heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples (Greek naos) made with hands.

After this (and aside from the only time naos is used in the New Testament when it's not referring to the sanctuary of God), only in reference to:

-- the church & the temple in heaven (naos) --

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 & 1 Corinthians 6:19; 2 Corinthians 6:16; Ephesians 2:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:4; Revelation 3:12; Revelation 7:15; Revelation 11:1-2; Revelation 11:19; Revelation 14:15 & Revelation 14:17; Revelation 15:5-6 & Revelation 15:8; Revelation 16:1 & Revelation 16:17; Revelation 21:22.

Only once in the New Testament is naos not referring to the sanctuary of God: Acts 19:24.

So unless Revelation 11:1-2 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 are the only exceptions, naos refers to the church after the tearing of the veil.

With regard to Revelation 11:1-2, the important fact that everyone seems to overlook is that there is no city mentioned in the Revelation other than:-

(i) New Jerusalem; and

(ii) Babylon the Great; and

(iii) the city"spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified."(Revelation 11:8).

(iv) The cities of the nations that fell in Revelation 16.

There is no verse in the Revelation where Babylon the Great or the other cities mentioned in (ii), (iii) and (iv) above are called "the holy city", but the Revelation calls New Jerusalem "the holy city" three times:- Revelation 21:2; Revelation 21:10; and Revelation 22:19.

Revelation 11:2 is talking about the holy city. The other city referred to in Revelation chapter 11, is referred to as a city that is "spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified." (Revelation 11:8).

So which temple (naos) is Revelation 11:1-2 referring to?

And which temple (naos) will the man of sin seat himself up in (2 Thessalonians 2:4). Compare Revelation 13:5-7.

1. The abomination of desolation (singular) set up by Antiochus IV Epiphanes did not result in the destruction of the temple: After he was ousted by the Maccabees, the temple was cleansed, rededicated, and reconsecrated to God.
2. The abominations (plural) that were committed in Daniel 9:27 would result in the destruction of the temple (Matthew 23:38; Daniel 9:27).

 

[St. SteVen]

"Seventy weeks are determined for your people and for your holy city…

Interesting topic, thanks.
I don't see "your people and for your holy city" addressed in your timeline,
I assume this means Israel and Jerusalem? Why the timeline marker on the gentiles?


@EclipseEventSigns