Daring Death - a Sin?

[Job]

I disagree. The threat of Hell is not going to stop someone

It is if that's the only thing stopping them.

And telling someone they won't go to hell is a lie because you don't know what God has in store for them.

 

[aspen]

trying to point out that God is not Santa Claus, perhaps. You cannot sow something, and then pray for God to change the reaping, at least i don't think so.

I cannot smoke until i get cancer and then expect to be able to go to God in prayer for healing iow.

Well, I think you can and God wants you to. However, the help you receive might be a dose of reality about cause and effect. Jesus prayed to his Father to help him accept the events in His life. When we fail to accept reality we continue to live in darkness

 

[Sword]

It is if that's the only thing stopping them.

And telling someone they won't go to hell is a lie because you don't know what God has in store for them.

See the best you can think is I am a liar. He tells me hes a Christian. I believe him. If he took his life its because he does not know the full love of Christ for him. Or he would not take his life in ant circumstance. That is a fact. And I know for a fact he would go to heaven.
God cannot tell me to forgive 7x70 and then he doesnt do the same.

If you dont know what God has for the Christian in store that tells me you dont know the Father personally or Jesus, or Holy Ghost. They love you. If you cant see your value to God in what He paid to get you back. You need to or you will never know Him personally.

 

[aspen]

It is if that's the only thing stopping them.

And telling someone they won't go to hell is a lie because you don't know what God has in store for them.

Have you experienced this personally? If a person is serious about ending their life I can tell you, threats are meaningless

 

[Job]

Have you experienced this personally?

Yes I have. More than once.

 

[Job]

And I know for a fact he would go to heaven.

No you don't. You can quote scripture all day long, but you still don't know. You think you know, but you don't. You have no idea what's in that persons heart and that's what determines whether a person gets into heaven or not. The contents of the heart.

God doesn't look at what you do, He looks at why you do it...and that can only be found in the heart.

 

[bbyrd009]

A person who smokes then asks for healing . God is not looking at them the way you do. He loves them and knows there lost condiction. His love runs way deeper than your shallow thinking does. This is not tempting testing God

well fwiw i would have gone with "don't get it twisted; God will not be mocked--you will reap what you sow" myself. But whatever

 

[bbyrd009]

And I know for a fact he would go to heaven.

i'm curious how you "know" that someone could go to a place that does not exist, as some "place" to go to...i mean you gotta know you cannot back this up with Scripture right

 

[bbyrd009]

and that's what determines whether a person gets into heaven or not.

You might ask Samuel about this, Saul talked to him through the Witch of Endor? 'Member? i don't think the kingdom of heaven is some place that you might "go to," or point to, or look at, or see. Samuel (accepted by God) assured Saul (rejected) that "you and your sons will be here with me."

i realize that this does not fit with most peoples' desires, but "I came that you might have life, more abundantly" does not mean "after you die," and of course the guys who have signed Contracts for Jesus wouldn't tell you this even if they knew, because it would be really bad for business.

sounds weird, i know, but you have no Scripture assuring you that anyone will go to heaven after they die; that is strictly sucker-bait, which is why all we get is flowery phrases like "bosom of Abraham" etc

 

[Job]

i don't think the kingdom of heaven is some place that you might "go to," or point to, or look at, or see.

What do you believe happens when you die?

 

[aspen]

You might ask Samuel about this, Saul talked to him through the Witch of Endor? 'Member? i don't think the kingdom of heaven is some place that you might "go to," or point to, or look at, or see. Samuel (accepted by God) assured Saul (rejected) that "you and your sons will be here with me."

i realize that this does not fit with most peoples' desires, but "I came that you might have life, more abundantly" does not mean "after you die," and of course the guys who have signed Contracts for Jesus wouldn't tell you this even if they knew, because it would be really bad for business.

sounds weird, i know, but you have no Scripture assuring you that anyone will go to heaven after they die; that is strictly sucker-bait, which is why all we get is flowery phrases like "bosom of Abraham" etc

Wow - great post.

I was just thinking about getting lost in God, when trying to articulate spiritual things. Flowery language happens! St. John of the Cross describes it, 'I abandoned and forgot myself, laying my face on my Beloved; all things ceased; I went out from myself, leaving my cares forgotten among the lilies.'

 

[Sword]

No you don't. You can quote scripture all day long, but you still don't know. You think you know, but you don't. You have no idea what's in that persons heart and that's what determines whether a person gets into heaven or not. The contents of the heart.

God doesn't look at what you do, He looks at why you do it...and that can only be found in the heart.

Maybe you missed the point here. if the persons a Christians and the commit suicide there going to heaven ok.

 

[bbyrd009]

What do you believe happens when you die?

absolutely no idea, and Scripture assures us that no one else knows either

 

[bbyrd009]

I abandoned and forgot myself

"absent from the body is present with the Lord"

 

[bbyrd009]

Maybe you missed the point here. if the persons a Christians and the commit suicide there going to heaven ok.

do you have a Witness for this? In Scripture, iow?

 

[Helen]

Hell is a Christian invention, that you might note is no where in the Bible, not anywhere, as unbelievable as that sounds (go and bring me an example, and you will see)

i feel for you, and reading your op makes me realize how good i have it, while at the same time i can say that many or most people in the developed world seem to be reflecting your pov in some manner right now, me included, and i know this sounds weird, and seems counter intuitive, but more appreciation is likely the answer.

*you might spend a morning reflecting upon whatever you have to be thankful for,* which i know sounds pointless on your end, but will yield results.

Amen Agree, Hell is nowhere in the bible "as taught" by most churches!!
Fire yes, but it is God Himself and a cleansing fire. "All our works will be tried by fire..to se of what sort they are..." So it is good.

John Brown It sounds so tough. But as someone said...what if you put yourself in the way of a dangerous situation and you only get maimed...of end up on life support, or sucking your food through a straw for the rest of you life. Any "dangerous situation" does no equal death.

I wont write stuff for the sake of writing, because in truth the Lord hasn't given me anything to add here. But I will for sure be praying for you.
Bless you....H

 

[John Brown]

It is if that's the only thing stopping them.

it's the only thing of importance stopping me.
it's depressing to be stuck in life just because of this possibility.

if someone could *prove* to me that I wouldn't go to hell, I'd start working toward that objective.

 

[John Brown]

Amen Agree, Hell is nowhere in the bible "as taught" by most churches!!
Fire yes, but it is God Himself and a cleansing fire. "All our works will be tried by fire..to se of what sort they are..." So it is good.

John Brown It sounds so tough. But as someone said...what if you put yourself in the way of a dangerous situation and you only get maimed...of end up on life support, or sucking your food through a straw for the rest of you life. Any "dangerous situation" does no equal death.

I wont write stuff for the sake of writing, because in truth the Lord hasn't given me anything to add here. But I will for sure be praying for you.
Bless you....H

if I knew it wouldn't send me to hell, there are ways out with 100% certainty - apart from counteracts of god.

but as for "daring" death, you're right - and that's one of my concerns. it could end up merely injuring me. so, finding a good method is difficult.

 

[OzSpen]

Hell is a Christian invention, that you might note is no where in the Bible, not anywhere, as unbelievable as that sounds (go and bring me an example, and you will see).

bb,

That is false and you don't asknowledge it is false teaching. Unfortunately the KJV translated the Greek words of Hades, Gehenna and Tartarus in the NT all as 'hell'. They are unfortunate mistranslations.

Greek words for the KJV’s ‘hell’ in the New Testament

J Gibbons provided the summary:

Three Words as “Hell”.

In the New Testament, the KJV translators used the word “hell” somewhat generically to represent three different Greek words. The Greek words are (1) gehenna, (2) hades and (3) tartaros (sic). Gehenna is found 12 times in the New Testament (Matthew 5:22,29, 30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15,33; Mark 9:43,45, 47; Luke 12:5; James 3:6). Hades is found 11 times (Matthew 11:23; 16:18; Luke 10:15; 16:23; Acts 2:27, 31; Revelation 1:18; 6:8; 20:13,14) and tartaros (sic) 1 time (2 Peter 2:4).

Gehenna, Hell Proper.

(1) Gehenna had its origin in association with the valley of Hinnom, actually meaning this. In the Old Testament times, when Israel went into idolatry, human sacrifices took place in this valley next to Jerusalem in the worship of Molech as they would “burn their sons and daughters in the fire” (2 Kings 23:10; 2 Chronicles 28:3; Jeremiah 7:31). The valley was looked upon as being polluted and unclean, and in New Testament times was used somewhat as a city dump with continual burning, we understand. It was with that backdrop the term gehenna was adopted and applied to the place of eternal punishment. Such is its coinage and use. This is hell in what the modern usage of the term “hell” conveys.

Hades, The Unseen World.

(2) We are told that Hades, in its etymology, properly means unseen. The basic stem of the word means seen, but it has the little a privative before it, thus making it signify unseen. All behind and beyond the veil of death is unseen. Thus, it is fittingly called Hades. At death the spirit enters into the unseen world of the dead. The word itself does not necessarily specify whether this state is bad or good. By itself it is generic, but it can be more specific, according to the context and other Scripture. Interestingly, in the account of the rich man and Lazarus, it is said that in “hell” (Hades, KJV) the rich man lifted up his eyes being in torment. With his death, Jesus is said to have gone to Hades (Acts 2:27,31). (This is the word behind the KJV’s translation of “hell” here). Jesus had earlier said to the thief on the cross, “Today shalt thou be with me in paradise” (Luke 23:43). Evidently, the story of the rich man and Lazarus unveils the situation as it was (and perhaps is). The good and the bad are partitioned by a great gulf, it would seem, one being in comfort and the other in discomfort. All of this anticipates the Day of Judgment when eternal heaven and hell will begin.

Tartarus, The Abyss.

(3) Tartarus is only referred to in one place in the New Testament, 2 Peter 2:4. It is found in the words “cast them down to hell” (to send into Tartarus). It is the bottomless abyss, the confinement place of the wicked, fallen angels.

The English Word “Hell”

But what is the actual and literal meaning of the English word “hell” used repeatedly in the KJV of the Bible? This may come as a surprise to many, but the English word “hell” back in 1611 meant about the same as hades, that being covered or unseen. The Cyclopedia of Biblical Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature (John McClintock and James Strong) that first came out in 1867, says this of the term, “Hell, a term which originally corresponded more exactly to Hades, being derived from the Saxon helan, to cover, and signifying merely the covered, or invisible place—the habitation of those who have gone from the visible terrestrial region to the world of spirits. But it has been so long appropriated in common usage to the place of future punishment for the wicked, that its earlier meaning has been lost sight of.” This does not negate the teaching of a place of future punishment and fire as seen in the word Gehenna and the umbrella word, Hades. It just throws more light on the use of the word “hell” in the King James Version.(Gibbons n d) [from my article, 'Hell in the Bible']​

Oz

Works consulted

J. Gibbons n d, ‘”Hell” in the King James Version’; unfortunately this link in English converts to another language. I originally accessthe article on 11 Oct 2012. The link is no longer available in English.

 

[aspen]

I have learned: God chooses how and when we die - no method can change this.

In the meantime, we are called to love through all diversity. I needed to start with myself