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Featured Day of Christ's Coming: Both Resurrection Types Happen

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Davy, Jun 23, 2020.

  1. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Apostle Paul in 1 Thess.4 said Jesus will bring those 'asleep' saints with Him (1 Thessalonians 4:13-14).
    Then Apostle Paul showed that those of us still alive on earth on that day will be "caught up" to the clouds to Jesus (and those asleep saints JESUS BRINGS WITH HIM.) 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.

    The Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scripture aligns with both groups of saints being gathered by Christ in 1 Thess.4. In the Matt.24 version, it's the 'asleep' saints being gathered FROM heaven. Those are the 'asleep' saints that are raised which Jesus brings with Him. Then the Mark 13 version is about the saints still alive being gathered FROM THE EARTH; those are the saints of 1 Thess.4 that are "caught up" to Jesus (and His asleep saints He brings with Him).
     
  2. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    It does not say saints. It says those beheaded, who did not take the mark of the beast. They get their heads back. They have fallen children for hundreds of years. Their children have children. Their grandchildren have children. Their great grandchildren have children. Their great, great grandchildren have children. Their great, great, great grandchildren have children. This goes on for 1000 years. They reign over their own households. They do not have glorified bodies. They have children. It is a simple biological process.

    This happens after the harvest of those currently living today. Can the church, with glorified bodies have offspring? Yes. Does it happen before the new heavens and earth. Why? This earth is going to be burned up. This earth was never going to be our home twice. The last thing we know about the sons of God is, we are in Paradise. We are one family in Adam. The Garden of Eden was large enough to comfortably fit all of Adam's family for 7000 years. Billions of them died in their own works, because they rejected God. Currently all are in Paradise and it is called the temple of God. Revelation 7. Even the 144K will live in Paradise. Those who were beheaded and brought back to life will join the rest of us in Paradise after the 1000 years. In the New Heavens and earth, we all, descendants of Adam, will live in the New Jerusalem. The new name of the Garden of Eden/Paradise. Paradise is just the "modern" term for Garden. The new name will be New Jerusalem. It will be a cube that is 1200 miles in equal length. It will fit perfectly in the new cube of heavens and earth. This current heavens and earth is just a cube with a finite age of 8000 years. That is what is written in Genesis. No one interprets Genesis that way, because Satan has deceived the whole world, even the elect, with a solar system and a 14 billion year virtual universe. God gave Moses, who is an actual real life person, the exact account in Genesis. It is spelled out exactly how God wanted us to see it.
     
  3. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    Which will happen AFTER the Millennium. Proved by how it is only then that Death is no more. Revelation 21:4

    The common Church teaching of immortality sooner, is based on the Promise of it; as John 3:16 says.
    But the fulfilment if that Promise isn't until God's 7000 year Plan for mankind is over. This is the logical and sensible conclusion to it all; Those found worthy will go with God into Eternity and all the wicked and ungodly people. go into the Lake of Fire. Revelation 20:11-15
     
  4. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    If being given eternal Life through Christ has to wait until the end of His future 1,000 years reign, then that would mean there is no such thing as a "first resurrection" like Rev.20 declares.

    You're just not reading the Scripture...

    Rev 20:6
    6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

    KJV

    ONLY those in Christ Jesus at His coming will NOT be subject to that "second death"! And who all is that? ALL of His Church which He gathers on the day of His 2nd coming, as written. So now we are back to your denial of the 1 Thessalonians 4 event of Christ's 2nd coming to gather His Church to Himself, and with them reign over the nations with the "rod of iron" as priests and kings, which He also declared in His Revelation.

    I mean, with this matter you are denying many obvious Scriptures our Lord Jesus Himself declared.
     
  5. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    In this matter you are mis-reading the Scriptures.
    And I am wrecking some of your false beliefs.

    The resurrection of the Trib martyrs, Revelation 20:4, is not to immortality, but as is stated; back to life. That is why is goes on to say that if they do die again, as all the people raised from the dead have, like Lazarus; with the exception of Jesus and with all of them, their second death has no hold, as their names are Written in the Book of Life.
    When the Book is opened, Revelation 20:11-15, THEN they will receive immortality.
    This is right, I never denied this. Just be clear; it is all on earth and we are still mortal, as Isaiah 65:20 confirms.
     
  6. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    We will live on this earth,all evil will be taken out of it
     
  7. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    The problem is not understanding who the dead are in Rev 20

    Revelation 20:12"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

    Notice there are two sets of books here. The first called "The Books" is to judge the unsaved. The second is the "Book of Life" where only the names of the saved are recorded. The saved have had their sins removed from God's judgment and booted out. Though they were committed, the blood of Christ has covered them from being used against us.

    Notice how all souls are judged "according to their works". Does it talk about faith here after the Millennium? No. The "great white throne judgment" will not take faith into consideration. The first resurrection takes faith into consideration. That was back on "the Lord's day". That was Jesus Christ's "great day". On the last day of the Millennium age, souls are judged by works only.

    Why are you judged for works only? Faith is something hoped for but unseen. You don't see Jesus Christ on earth today, you will see his wonderful works, and be led by Him and His Spirit in the Millennium age. Today He is in heaven and not walking on this earth. However, in the millennium, He will be on earth, and all will have full intelligence, with full recall and will be taught. The Heavenly Father honors all those with grace, that have accepted His Son by faith through repentance without Christ's physical presence here on earth, if you believed in His Word.

    To those who are not under grace in the Millennium, their salvation will be only through and by their works. For faith doesn't exist to them. There will be no ignorance, physical handicap, for you will see, know, and experience Our Lord first hand.

    If you follow the Antichrist, the first Christ to appear, you will have forfeited your salvation in this earth age. You will not be under the grace of God, and your works will be the only thing that matters on the last day of the Millennium, the day of judgment. They will be judged by works alone, for they have seen Jesus Christ, and are without excuse. The "rapture theory" leaves believers defenseless against Satan, for they will be taken in by Satan's deceptions
     
  8. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Then why do people still die? Is not death considered an evil?

    Isaiah 65:17-20

    17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
    18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
    19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
    20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

    Why are there still sinners and curses?
     
  9. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    No, the rapture removes all believers. That means they are not even here. The non-rapture believers are here being deceived by Satan.
     
  10. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    No, you have simply deceived yourself. And it appears to be coming from your theory about the time of God's consuming fire. You've built a false wall all around that idea. And that's why you now cannot even recognize the coming of Christ and gathering of the Church in 1 Thessalonians 4, a very important chapter about the day of Christ's 2nd coming to end the tribulation.
     
    n2thelight likes this.
  11. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    I look forward with great anticipation to the glorious Return of King Jesus, as described in 1 Thess 4:17'
    But you don't seem to see that He will come before that; in fire. Isaiah 66:15, 2 Peter 3:7

    There is coming a sudden and shocking Day of destruction, 1 Thess 5:3, when the Lord will change the world. The Sixth Seal event. Revelation 6:12-17 An event that is plainly not Jesus Return, at least 7 years before.
    The Prophets tell us all about it, why do you deny it?
     
  12. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    Here's what you need to know,only Christians can be deceived,the rest of the world already are.......
     
  13. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    You MUST,in order to really understand the Word that there are 3 ages mentioned in scripture

    I Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

    "A thief in the night" is an figure of speech that means that Christ shall come at an unexpected time. In the English it sounds like a very scary time, but lets see what it says in the original text. The "elements" are not the elements that you think of, such as gold, iron, oxygen and so on, but they are the "evil rudiments" that go to make up the evil in this earth age. This includes the evil spirits, the fallen angels, and all the things and forms of idolatry that cause flesh man to sin. The time of this burning will be at God's appointed time, so this verse is addressed to all those things that go to offend our Heavenly Father.

    At the 7th and last trump the age of the flesh will be over.

    Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom,so let's see when His kingdom on earth begins

    Revelation 11:15 "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of Our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

    Where shall He reign from?His favorite spot in the whole universe,Jerusalem

     
  14. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    ALL, ALL shall be changed,saint and sinner alike

    Seems some don't understand we have two bodies

    I Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, "How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"

    Paul is now going to tell us what happens and we bury them in the ground. Pay attention so that you will understand and there will be no confusion. So if you believe in the resurrection, than how does it happen? Where does it take place, and with what body does the dead rise?

    We are talking about the physical body and it's change. In other words, what happens to the flesh after death, and the soul after it has departed from the body?

    I Corinthians 15:36 "Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:"

    It is important to understand the word "quickened", Remember in verse 22 Paul stated; "in Adam all die, so in Christ shall all be made alive." This Greek word for "quickened" is the same Greek word for the "coming alive". It means that all, sinners and saints are made alive through Christ. It doesn't mean that the soul is raised to eternal life, for the soul is not the subject here, but the question is what happens to the physical body?

    It means to "revitalize" [# 2227 in Strong's] the soul, and become conscience and ready for judgment. This doesn't mean that all souls are saved, but that all souls are given life to continue as they were. If that soul was lost, it will still be lost, but the final death will not take place until after this age of the flesh is over, after the Millennium age, and the Great white throne judgment is finish. Then will be the time of the "second death" or the death of the lost souls. It means that the soul has put off the flesh body, and put on their spiritual body, but their soul is still condemned to death if it is not in right standing with God.

    I Corinthians 15:50


    "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."


    Paul is saying that you can count on this for a fact. Flesh and blood cannot be part of the Kingdom of God. Your flesh body is going to drive you to sin and that is its nature. When you are under the nature of your flesh body, it will not allow your inner man to control you. There is no way that flesh and blood can become part of the kingdom of God. As long as you are in your flesh body, you simply cannot keep from breaking part of the laws of God. Your mind is incapable of retaining all the law, and applying it to every moment of your life. This is why we have repentance, and it is also why flesh and blood will not be here when Jesus Christ's kingdom is established here on earth for the Millennium kingdom.

    I Corinthians 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"

    Paul is now going to show us a mystery that deals with our generation, for a mystery is something that cannot be understood. However, when the details and clues of the mystery are know, then it is no longer a mystery. This mystery deals with a time when something is going to happen all over the earth to all flesh bodies, when these flesh bodies are not die anymore. Why will this be? Because all people living in their flesh bodies will be changed instantly from their flesh bodies, into their new incorruptible bodies. We have already established that each of us have two bodies, one is of the flesh, and the other body is a spiritual body that is within our flesh body. The spiritual body is not made alive or freed from the flesh body until the flesh body is done away with.
     
  15. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    satan as Christ comes at the 6th seal trump and vial .Christ does not I repeat,does not come before the 7th trump,seal and vial...

    I Thessalonians 5:2 "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."

    We should know this "perfectly well", because it is written in God's Word, and Paul has told us in many of his writings that when Christ returns it will be at the last [seventh] trump. This day of Christ's return is called "the day of the Lord". On this day Jesus Christ will come to earth, make all things right; establish His kingdom, and reign over that earthly kingdom for one thousand years [millennium] period.

    There is no confusion in God's word about this, friend, for it is written in the Bible. It will come to pass exactly as it is written. If your in the "rapture doctrine" it will be a surprise to you.

    I Thessalonians 5:3 "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

    "For when they"; they , are the people of the world, those people of the night [from verse 5:2]. There is not going to be any fly away" at that time. The "destruction" that comes over the people of the earth is the fact that "truth" of God's Word will become extinct. There will be none: for if you believe in the "any moment doctrine", then you will not be sealed in your mind that the first Christ is the false Christ. It simply will be to late for you [see Revelation 9:1-5].

    The ones called " they" are also the media: the TV, radio, and printed press and they are shouting "Peace and safety". This has been going on for the past thirty years, and with the fall of the Soviet Union, they shout it even louder. The tool for this "Peace and safety" is their Godless one world system [The political beast].

    Is there peace and safety? Ask the people in Jerusalem, or in New York, or tune on the news as see all the terror in the Word. We thought so at the rate we have allowed ourselves to dismantle our weapons, and ship the factories overseas. This "New World Order [the U.N.] is the means by which the world is relying on for "peace and safety". Paul said that when we hear this come to pass, as it is happening now, then comes this "Woman in travail"; which is the sudden destruction upon the whole earth.

    This "travail" is mentioned in Matthew 24, and Mark 13, as well as other places, and Jesus called it "Labor pains". Why? Because when it happens, the travail will be exactly as the contractions a woman has in labor. You will know ahead of time with plenty of warning, and as each prophetic event comes, those pains or events of the end times get closer and closer until the ones at the end are in rapid order, coming at the same time.

    Jesus gave us the six sign to watch for, so that we would not be deceived. Yet most Christians today chose to not believe Jesus. These signs get closer and closer until the child is born. Only instead of the birth of a child; it will be the birth of a new age. That age is called, "Christ's Kingdom", or the millennium age.

    When we know God's Word, we know He comes at the seventh trump, and the events, all events must come before then. It's in the Bible, so that we would not be deceived.

    I Thessalonians 5:4 "But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief."

    We are children of light rather then darkness, because we listen to God's Word, rather then the traditions of men. When you have God's word in your mind, and know it; when the famine for truth comes, you will be able to see all the signs, and know just how close Christ's return is. It is the Holy Spirit within you that will allow you to see through the darkness of lies and deception, and the Antichrist and his system will not be appealing to you.

    I Thessalonians 5:5 "Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness."

    All people claiming to be Christians and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, are children of the light. Anytime a prophecy in Revelation or else where is given in days or years, it is written to Christians. When the prophecies pertain to the "prince of darkness", or given in months, which is set by the moons of the night, that prophecy is directed only to Satan and his children.

    An example is Revelation 13:4, where it says "he shall have forty two months", it is Satan that shall have the forty two months. However we know from Revelation 9:5,10, that that time has been shortened to five months, for the elect's sake.

    The two witnesses are of God, and written in Revelation 11. The time relating to them is given as 1,260 days. This refers to the prophecy of the children of light, God's witness.

    I Thessalonians 5:6 "Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober."

    Don't let your mind go to sleep, as to your attention to the signs and the Word of God. Rest is important, and you need it to think and work, but see that your mind stays awake to the warnings, and teachings of God's Word. Stay tuned to the "signs and the times", so that you are not caught off guard.

    I Thessalonians 5:7 "For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night."

    This drunkenness is the stupor of the deception of the Antichrist, and his religious beast. Paul wants you awake and alert to what is going on in the world around you. This verse is written to a person [you and I] living in the generation just prior, and during the Lord's return. That generation is our generation, and the signs and happenings are things we are reading in the news daily. If your a child of the night, you are in a "drunken stupor", and you are open to the deceptions of the Antichrist [Satan], and his system that is well formed today.

    I Thessalonians 5:8 "But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation."

    This verse is a double witness to Ephesians 6:10-20. Each of these items, are part of the Christians armor to fight the spiritual warfare coming upon us. Many Christians are going to be deceived into looking for a physical battle; when the war of our generation will be a spiritual war. A war of words, ideas, concepts and precepts which are all over God's Word [Bible]. Why would you need God's word, if your going to fly out of here? Armor has only one use, and that is for protection. It is to "stand against the fiery darts of Satan".

    Ephesians 6:12; "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers [world rulers] of the [this] darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [heavenly] places."

    The "darkness of this world" are Satan's entire world system of demons, deceptions by Satan's offspring the Kenites, and all those doctrines of demons and false teaching. Even the false shepherds who teach and know not the truths of God's Word are part of the "darkness of this world".

    I Thessalonians 5:9 "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,"

    You don't have to hide away to escape God's wrath upon the world. He is your Father, and loves you. God controls all that will come upon the earth, and Revelation 9:1-4 tells us He is the one who even gives the keys of Authority to Satan. Antichrist is the star that will fall to this earth, and he is Satan.

    Your salvation from God's wrath will only come through your faith in Jesus Christ. When Satan comes to earth, the first seals of Revelation, and Matthew 24, and Mark 13 will have taken place and be present. These are seals of deception, brought on by Satan's claim to be the true Christ. Those claims will be backed up with wondrous works, and miracles, as well as world peace and prosperity to all the world.

    Your only hope of not being deceived is to know exactly what will come about, and when it does come, it will be prophecy of God's word coming true. You will not have to worry about what to say, for when the time comes to give answer, it will be the Holy Spirit speaking through you [see Mark 13:11].
     
  16. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    @Keraz
    Now let's go to Thess 4

    I Thessalonians 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."

    The next five verses lay the foundation to what is called the "rapture theory". That is all it is, is a theory; and unproven idea. As we study our Father's Word; set aside all preconceived ideas you have about a rapture, and let's see what Paul is trying to tell the Thessalonians.

    It is from these verses that the "rapture theory" was born. Let's see just how willing you are to bet your soul on it, when we take a fresh look at what Paul really said. Because that is what you are doing when you rely on it in the last days.

    After Paul told the Thessalonians to live right in the community, and search their souls for sin in their lives, they were then to repent of any sin. Paul moved next to what happens when death comes to this flesh body. This topic is important to Paul, for it is the stabilizing factor to the Christian life. It removes the fear that comes from the unknown of ones death. Paul gives this information for one reason, and that is, that we not be ignorant as the heathen are. In other words, Paul doesn't want Christians stupid.

    This concern is over "them which are asleep". The concern is over the loved ones that have died and left them, and their decaying bodies are out there in their grave. Paul is saying for us not to be sorry about those Christians who are dead and gone, for that is the concern of the heathen. The heathen's fear comes from their ignorance of God's word, and His promises. The heathen have no hope, for they believe it's over at the burial.

    I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

    If we believe, as a Christian, that Christ set the example for us; so that we will follow as He did, in dying, and rising again, then "to sleep" is to be dead from the flesh body. The Greek is a simple language, for it's structure allows one to be more precise. The subject in the frame of this verse is; "that ye not be ignorant as to where the dead are." If you're a Christian, you know and believe that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and on the third day arose and came out of the tomb. If you do not believe this, Paul classifies you as ignorant, and heathen [non-believer].

    It was on the fortieth day that he ascended back to the Father. When Jesus ascended into heaven, all the souls went with him into heaven also, that had passed on, up to that point in time. The souls of some went to wait for that time of judgment, while others to the glory of God. Those that sleep [are dead] are not out there in a hole in the ground, but all Christians must believe that they arose to be with the Father, just like Christ did also. The dead are with God; all of them. "To be absent from the body [flesh body] is to be present with the Lord." Ecclesiastes 12:7.

    Regardless what chapter nine of Ecclesiastes says concerning the flesh body; when this flesh body is dead, the soul is gone from it, and the flesh is left to rot. It is difficult to see how they made a "rapture theory" out of this, when the subject is, "where are the dead?" So we see that when one dies, his soul goes immediately to be with our Heavenly Father. If you believe this, you are not heathen.

    I Thessalonians 4:15 "For we say unto you, by the word of our Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent in no wise [precede] them which are asleep."

    This, Paul states, is not his words, but it is from the Word God gave to him. Where? Ecclesiastes 12:7, that is where it is written.

    "We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord," this is our gathering back to Jesus Christ. "Shall not prevent them", would be better translated, "We are not going to precede [go before] them." We can not precede them for a very simple reason; the dead are already there with God. It is the only logical fact that can come from this. If you do not, or will not believe this, then you believe in soul sleep as the heathen do, and the hope and glory Paul is speaking of, for the Christian, and you are ignorant of God's glory. Whether victorious, or sentenced to hell, all the dead are now with the Father, and not in the ground.
     
  17. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    My point is they refuse to believe. They are not believers.
     
  18. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    I would encourage all to do a study on the word resurrection ....
    Never mind,I'll do it for you

    Result of search for "resurrection":

    386. anastasis an-as'-tas-is from 450; a standing up again, i.e. (literally) a resurrection from death (individual, genitive case or by implication, (its author)), or (figuratively) a (moral) recovery (of spiritual truth):--raised to life again, resurrection, rise from the dead, that should rise, rising again.

    1454. egersis eg'-er-sis from 1453; a resurgence (from death):--resurrection.1815. exanastasis ex-an-as'-tas-is from 1817; a rising from death:--resurrection.
     
  19. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    We are in the 7 seals already. The church age will be over very soon, and it will end at a moment no one is thinking. That is why it is a thief in the night. But at the same time, God Himself will reveal all things. Nothing will be hidden. There will be no more excuses. The harvest will go on full blast for the next few years.
     
  20. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    Only Christians believe in Christ,so again they are the only ones who can be deceived...If they refuse to believe ,they were NOT Christians
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
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