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Featured Day of Christ's Coming: Both Resurrection Types Happen

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Davy, Jun 23, 2020.

  1. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    There are many doctrines of men that apparently hate this revealing directly from God's Word that both the "resurrection of life" AND the "resurrection of damnation" happen on the SAME DAY of Christ's 2nd coming.

    Apostle Paul said it was his hope there would be both a resurrection of the "just" and... the "unjust".

    Acts 24:14-15
    14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
    15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

    KJV

    Do you really think Apostle Paul had the hope for a resurrection of the unjust only for them to be destroyed?

    We know from Paul's Epistles that his desires were like God's, the desire that all might come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). Did you notice above Paul shows he got this understanding about the resurrection of the just and unjust from the Old Testament prophets? Daniel 12:2 is one place that refers to this resurrection of the unjust.

    But men's doctrines argue that the "resurrection of damnation" will happen after... Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20.

    Our Lord Jesus told us different though...

    John 5:28-29
    28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,

    29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
    KJV

    What our Lord Jesus said above about both resurrection types happening on the day of His 2nd coming gives more weight to when the Daniel 12:2 event will occur...

    Dan 12:2
    2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
    KJV


    Both of those above Scriptures reveal that BOTH resurrection types happen on the same day. In the John 5:28-29 example, both happen on the day of Christ's 2nd coming.

    Let's look at the Daniel 12:1 verse with... the Dan.12:2 verse together, and we get a bit more info on the timing when these two resurrection types will occur...

    Dan 12:1-2
    12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

    2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
    KJV


    Daniel 12:1 is talking about the time of great tribulation our Lord Jesus warned of for the very end of this world. That is when that "time of trouble" is to take place, at the end just prior to His 2nd coming. Just before that is when that "time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation..." will happen. Then notice it says, "... and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book."

    That being found written in the book does not mean the Judgment Day of God's Great White throne judgment after Christ's 1,000 years future reign that begins on the day of His 2nd coming. It means those of God's elect who suffer that tribulation and are delivered by Christ's coming, because their names were written in the book of life from the foundation of the world (Rev.13:4-8).

    Then right after that, the Daniel 12:2 event is mentioned about those asleep (dead) being raised from the dead, which is the resurrection on the day of Christ's 2nd coming.

    Thus the John 5:28-29 Scripture is NOT about some supposed resurrection of the wicked dead at the end of Christ's future 1,000 years reign. It is about BOTH resurrection types that happen on the day of Christ's coming to end the tribulation and start His 1,000 years reign with His elect.

    The following is about the Zadok priests during Christ's future 1,000 years reign with a Millennial temple, on earth. Zadok means 'the Righteous'. Our Lord Jesus is King of Righteousness, per Hebrews 7, the Melchizedek of the Old Testament who met Abraham. In that future 1,000 years, ONLY the Zadok will be allowed to approach Jesus in that time. You should easily know who that represents (us, Christ's faithful Church).

    Ezek 44:23-26
    23 And they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.

    24 And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; and they shall judge it according to My judgments: and they shall keep My laws and My statutes in all Mine assemblies; and they shall hallow My sabbaths.

    25 And they shall come at no dead person to defile themselves: but for father, or for mother, or for son, or for daughter, for brother, or for sister that hath had no husband, they may defile themselves.


    26 And after he is cleansed, they shall reckon unto him seven days.
    KJV


    The time of Christ's future 1,000 years reign does not involve existence in a fleshy body. The resurrection body Apostle Paul taught is a "spiritual body". So it is very, very important to realize that is taking place during Christ's 1,000 years reign with His elect, in their "spiritual body", not their flesh bodies.

    So who are those "dead" which the Zadok priests (the Church) will be allowed to cross over and visit? They represent relatives, father, mother, son, daughter, sister, brother, who were deceived in this present world. Those are the "dead" of Revelation 20:5 that lived not (spiritually) again until the 1,000 years were over.

    Flesh death is over and done with by the time of Christ's 2nd coming. The resurrection is to the "spiritual body" type according to Paul. And Paul also taught those of us still alive on the day of Christ's coming will be changed at the twinkling of an eye, pointing to that "spiritual body" of incorruption. That type body does NOT mean automatic Salvation though, not for the spiritually "dead" that are raised to the "resurrection of damnation".

    Those spiritually dead will stand in judgment all throughout Christ's future 1,000 years reign. Even in Revelation 2 our Lord Jesus showed those of the "synagogue of Satan" will be made to worship Him at the feet of His elect, pointing to that future 1,000 years timing of His reign.
     
  2. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    Addressing the OP, I read your post carefully, not saying that you're right or wrong, but do not the second resurrection happen after the thousand years? supportive scripture, Revelation 20:4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."
    Revelation 20:5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."
    Revelation 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."
    Revelation 20:7 "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,"
    Revelation 20:8 "And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."

    PICJAG
     
  3. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    But it does mean just that.
    ONLY at the GWT Judgment, is the Book of Life opened and those found therein will receive immortality.

    The martyrs killed during the GT, are the only ones raised back to life when Jesus Returns.
     
  4. Timtofly

    Timtofly Active Member

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    I think one is going to have to figure out when these people in these verses, actually died. If it is talking about just those who die while God and Jesus are present on the earth it can only make sense. What is going to happen to all 8 billion humans alive right now, if they are all dead in the next 7 years?
     
  5. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    You're still looking at that Rev.20:5 verse with wrongly thinking the "resurrection of damnation" had not happened yet.

    If ONLY those of the 1st resurrection are raised on that day, then who do they reign over with the "rod of iron" that Jesus promised?

    Rev 2:26-27
    26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth My works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

    27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of My Father.
    KJV

    Rev 3:9
    9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
    KJV

    Jesus showed there the "nations" are who His elect will reign over in that time, with that "rod of iron". That rod is not for His Church. It is for the unsaved of the nations during His Millennial reign. This is why the "resurrection of damnation" will also happen on the day of His return, as per John 5:28-29 like He said.

    The "dead" of Rev.20:5 then, are in resurrection bodies, but still are SPIRITUALLY DEAD and subject to the "second death", not literally in the ground or asleep like the Daniel 12:2 expression uses.




     
  6. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    No, you're confusing the time of great tribulation with God's Great White throne Judgment that only will occur after... Christ's 1,000 years reign.

    Dan 12:1-2
    12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.


    2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
    KJV


    Dan.12:1 is talking only about the saints who go through the tribulation and are saved by Christ's 2nd coming. The day that Jesus returns, that will start the first day of His 1,000 years reign of Rev.20., with His elect. His whole faithful Church are represented by that "first resurrection" idea, and not just for the martyrs, or did you forget 1 Thessalonians 4 about Jesus bringing the asleep saints with Him when He returns, and the saints still alive being caught up to Him on that day also?
     
  7. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    OK then, let's talk about who the "first resurrection" of Rev.20 are.

    These are all Scriptures that reveal those in Christ at His coming are promised to be made kings and priests, and will reign with Him.

    Martyrs only reign with Jesus?? Hardly.

    Rev 20:6
    6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

    KJV

    2 Tim 2:12
    12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with Him: if we deny Him, He also will deny us:

    KJV

    Rev 1:5-6
    And from Jesus Christ, Who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto Him That loved us, and washed us from our sins in His own blood,
    6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and His Father; to Him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

    KJV

    Rev 5:9-10
    9 And they sung a new song, saying, 'Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by Thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
    10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

    KJV

    Only those of the "first resurrection" are not subject to the "second death" which is the casting into the future "lake of fire". That is what Revelation 20:6 and Revelation 20:14 tells us as written.

    And we know not all of Christ's Church are martyred...

    Because we know when Jesus comes He will rapture His saints that are still alive on earth on that day of His coming.

    And His alive saints will NOT be subject to that "second death" during His 1,000 years reign either.

    So as I have shown in my OP, some men think of the Rev.20 Chapter with a fleshy, carnal mind, and do not understand that time after Jesus returns will not be a time of man in flesh bodies. Both types of resurrection will have already happened when that 1,000 years starts...

    1. "the resurrection of life" = not only Christ's martyrs, but the whole faithful Church, made kings and priests and reign with Jesus for the 1,000 years. These are Christ's elect, the Zadok (the Just).

    2. "the resurrection of damnation" = everyone else that is unsaved and without Christ Jesus, and even include the five foolish virgins type. These are the unsaved "nations" of that future 1,000 years, that are outside... the "camp of the saints" and "beloved city". These are the "dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie" of Revelation 22:15 that are outside the gates of the beloved city. These are the "dead" of that time, their souls still subject to the "second death", which is why they are called "the dead", even when they stand in judgment at the end of the 1,000 years. That area outside the gates is what Jesus called the 'outer darkness' where there will be gnashing of teeth (from shame).

    All souls in that time will be in one of those two categories.
     
  8. Timtofly

    Timtofly Active Member

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    The church has been around for 1900 years. It ruled plenty of times, even in the wrong way.

    If the dead are dead during the 1000 years, who dies at the end? If the dead cannot have babies of flesh, why have them around?

    Those beheaded do come back to life as normal humans. They have normal babies for 1000 years. Under perfect conditions a few million can become over .5 billion in 40 years. Double that every 40 years. By 120 years there will be 2 billion. There will be limited death, because any who dies at 100 will be cursed, meaning several things. Crime will not be tolerated, and not many will die, but keep having more children. Having normal physical humans, while those dead in their sins remain dead until the end of the 1000 years. Resurrection of the Lost is not a resurrection and is not named as such. The dead do appear, standing before God. Only God knows if after being dead for at least 7000 years means one is cast into the lake of fire. Thus a book of works. But John never claims what happens to those not thrown into the lake of fire. What is the point? We know very little about the next reality, nor should we. We have enough to deal with in this one. John could think that any speculation about the next reality counts as adding to the words he wrote. Only God knows who is violating the inspired Word of God.
     
    Keraz likes this.
  9. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    Revelation 20:4 is crystal clear; the ONLY people [souls] that will Return with Jesus, will be the Trib martyrs.
    Paul does not say ALL the 'asleep saints' will be resurrected then.
     
  10. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    So you did... forget that 1 Thessalonians 4 is about Jesus bringing the raised asleep saints with Him on that day, and also rapturing the alive saints to Himself also? Where then, are these during Christ's 1,000 years reign?
     
  11. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    I don't 'forget' scripture, I read and understand it without adding any fanciful ideas to it.

    1 Thess 4:13-17 does not say Jesus will raise ALL Christians.
    Revelation 20:4-5 gives us the specific information; ONLY those killed during the GT, will be raised back to life. ALL the rest must await the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium.
    When Jesus Returns, His angels will gather the still living Christians from around the world. Matthew 24:31
    Most of them will be the ones that were taken to their place of safety, before the GT. Revelation 12:14
     
  12. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    I'll repeat my question. Where then are those saints of 1 Thessalonians 4 that Jesus brings with Him, and the saints still alive that are "caught up" to Him, on the day of His coming? Where are they in Christ's 1,000 years of Rev.20?

    (I am not going to do a lesson on 1 Thessalonians 4 for you, which is about the gathering of the Church by Christ on the day of His 2nd coming. That that is the subject of that chapter is not debatable.)
     
  13. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    I'll repeat my answer: Jesus does NOT bring any people or souls with Him, other than the Trib martyrs. He is accompanied by the armies of heaven. Matthew 16:27
    Those who remain alive, will be transported to where He is, initially in the atmosphere, then in Jerusalem.
    Both those martyrs and the alive faithful Christians, will be His priests and co-rulers. Revelation 20:4-5, 5:9-10
     
  14. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Then that is a change from your early response, because when Jesus gathers His Church, it includes both the 'asleep' saints that are resurrected on that day, and the alive saints still on earth. And they reign with Him as priests and kings like the Scripture says. Thus that means the martyrs are NOT the only ones reigning with Jesus during His future 1,000 years reign of Rev.20.
     
  15. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    You have misunderstood me, I never said that Jesus will bring back with Him; any souls other that those of the Trib martyrs. Let alone any living people. That is just Pre-trib rapture rubbish.

    Those people who will be with Him after He Returns, are those the angels gather, Matthew 24:31.
    I see them as mainly those who were taken to the place of safety, on earth. Revelation 12:14

    We must be careful to not read into the scriptures what is not there. There is no general resurrection when Jesus comes again.
    All the rest of the dead await the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium. Rev 20:5
     
  16. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    That the alive saints on earth are "caught up" to Jesus on the day of His 2nd coming is written in 1 Thessalonians 4. It is unmistakable. Also written there in 1 Thessalonians 4 is that the 'asleep' saints that have died, Paul said Jesus will bring with Him. Paul stressed that point to the Church so as to not worry about those who had died in Christ. Strange that you are not familiar with that 1 Thessalonians 4 chapter, because it has nothing to do with a pre-tribulational rapture.

    The KJV phrase "caught up" in 1 Thess.4 is the Greek word 'harpazo', and it means 'to seize'. The word 'rapture' is not in the KJV, but the word rapture does come from a Latin translation of Greek 'harpazo'. So just because someone uses the word 'rapture', that does not necessarily mean a pre-trib rapture. I believe in a Post-tribulational 'rapture', or being "caught up" to Jesus.

    What distinguishes a pre-trib rapture idea is the belief that Jesus comes prior to the tribulation to rapture His Church to heaven, which that idea is not written.
     
  17. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    The prophecy of Paul's in 1 Thess 4:17 says He will gather those who remain to Him. As in Matthew 24:31.
    My point is they were not in heaven, nor do they accompany Jesus as He destroys the armies at Armageddon.

    1 Thess 4:14 says Jesus will those who died as Christians with Him. He doesn't say ALL those souls. We know from Revelation 20:4, that is is only the souls of the Trib martyrs.

    So the 'Post Trib rapture', is not really a 'rapture' at all, it will be a transportation from one earthly location to another.
    And you can forget any notions of 'glorified bodies' or immortality then. That cannot happen until the Millennium is over. Revelation 20:11-15
     
  18. Dcopymope

    Dcopymope Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with the part in bold in particular. When properly interpreting how the scripture below is written, it becomes clear that they already received the glorified bodies during the millennial kingdom.

    So throughout the new testament a resurrection of the saints is spoken of at length that is accompanied with the gift of immortality. In Revelation, there are only two resurrections, the first which is of the saints, and the second which is of the rest of the dead who were not resurrected during the millennial reign that are to be judged according to their works. The first resurrection speaks of the saints conquering the second death. If there is a second death, then there must have been a first. Since they already conquered the second death at this time, then it means the first death was already conquered by default since the second death is defined as something much greater than the first being the death of the soul which is the union of the body and spirit, unlike the first death which only kills the body.
     
  19. Keraz

    Keraz Well-Known Member

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    Right; verses like John 3:16, and many more.
    They Promise Eternal life to those who believe in Him, but they don't say when that will happen.
    You missed out Rev 20:4, which tells just who it is that partakes in the first resurrection. ONLY the martyrs of the GT.

    Church teachers say we will receive it, but they die and we die too. The Dead know nothing, they 'sleep' in their graves, until all will be raised to stand before God on His Great White Throne. Revelation 20:11-15
    THEN the Book of Life will be opened and those whose names are found Written in it, will receive immortality and those whose names are not found there, will go into the Lake of Fire.
    Nowhere does to Bible say we get 'glorified bodies' or immortality, before Judgment. To think that, is quite illogical and unscriptural.
     
  20. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    That's simply not Scriptural. The resurrection for those in Christ is... to the putting on immortality. Apostle Paul showed this emphatically in 1 Corinthians 15:50-54.
     
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