Dead Faith???

[justbyfaith]

Faith that is living and saving will generally produce works; however scripture is clear that it saves us apart from our works.

 

[Phoneman777]

While the Apostles were alive, the Church was called "The Catholic Church".

We have documented proof of this from the Letter to the Smyrnaeans from Ignatius of Antioch who was a student of the Apostle John.

ALL of your whining and Catholic-hating can't change that because it's documented history . . .

Just like the catholic church's "documented proof" of the "Donations of Constantine" which turned out to be a colossal fraud? C'mon, Dead Bread, do you really expect us to believe anything your papal pedophile playhouse in Rome claims as legit?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Just like the catholic church's "documented proof" of the "Donations of Constantine" which turned out to be a colossal fraud? C'mon, Dead Bread, do you really expect us to believe anything your papal pedophile playhouse in Rome claims as legit?

Soooooo, you're calling the Letter to the Smyrnaeans by Ignatius of Antioch a "fraud"??
Not ONE SINGLE scholar agrees with you.

Can you show me some evidence of this - or are talking out of your backside again??

 

[Phoneman777]

Luther accepted James as inspired ONLY at the urging of his contemporaries - especially his friend, Philip Melanchton. Do your homework.

Had it not been for Melanchton - Luther probably would have left this Book OUT of his German translation.
That's how little regard he had for it.

Don't worry, I do my homework, which is why I was able to totally shut down your campaign of ridicule against us Protestants for using what you claimed was a false reference to your church - the phrase "Roman Catholic Church" - which you claimed was not recognized by papal authorities...until I showed you that except from that Pius XII encyclical in which that pedophile-in-chief plainly stated "Roman Catholic Church" in reference to the very organization over which he presided.

Please do your God given duty to speak truth and lie not. Deliberately leaving out the fact that Luther eventually accepted the book of James as equally inspired of God as the rest of Scripture is dishonest.

 

[Phoneman777]

Soooooo, you're calling the Letter to the Smyrnaeans by Ignatius of Antioch a "fraud"??
Not ONE SINGLE scholar agrees with you.

Can you show me some evidence of this - or are talking out of your backside again??

I'm saying your entire organization was and is so entirely fraught with such superb liars and criminal enablers that to trust anything even remotely connected with the papacy is as equally foolish as falling in love and sharing your bed with a rattlesnake.

 

[Phoneman777]

Soooooo, you're calling the Letter to the Smyrnaeans by Ignatius of Antioch a "fraud"??
Not ONE SINGLE scholar agrees with you.

Can you show me some evidence of this - or are talking out of your backside again??

BTW, stop laying claim to the church of the early centuries which doctrines, beliefs, and practices don't resemble in the least that monument of error that stands in Rome today.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Either you agree with Luther's understanding of the Epistle of James - or you agree with the Catholic understanding.

Funny YOU should be so obsessed with straw men because Luther referred to this Book as "The Epistle of Straw". He thought James was weak in his teaching on faith because they didn't mingle with his OWN aberrant belief that we are saved by "faith alone". Luther added the word "alone" to Rom. 3:28 in his German translation:
Rom. 3:28
For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
Luther's version
For we maintain that a person is justified by faith alone apart from the works of the law.

Actually - there is only ONE place is ALL of Scripture where the words "faith alone" are together - and that is in James 2:24, where he states emphatically:
James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by works and NOT by faith alone.

This disgusted Luther because it went completely against his new religious system.
The Catholic Church has NEVER taught that we "earn" our way into Heaven or that we saved by our works. this is a Protestant fallacy. the Church has ALWAYS taught that works are en essential element of our faith - as James teaches (James 2:14=26).

Faith is NOT "belief".
Faith is belief + works (obedience)

This is what Paul referred to as the "obedience to faith" (Rom. 1:5) and why he said that LOVE (Charity) and NOT faith or hope was the greatest virtue (1 Cor. 13:13).

So, once again - either you believe, as MOST Protestants do, in Luther's version of James - or you believe in the Catholic understanding of it.

Such works are what we do in Christ Jesus as to the Holy Spirit is the key, not of our own works as that is just as filthy rags.

The point that I see of this subject is that Satan try's to create the deception, that James is talking about ones own worldly works, fact is that when one knows truly about where James is coming from is that the people he is talking to are Christians and know where he is coming from. so they would not question that he is talking about peoples own good works at all.

Worldly good works are ok as far as the world sees it and may be fine in that sense, but they may not cut the mustard as to the Holy Spirit.

This worldly works dribble is a big problem with all the churches nowadays, just because the Church is seen to be doing and saying the right thing, does not make it correct as to the Holy Spirit. Just like Pope Frances is a worldly dog, nothing he says is coming from the Holy Spirit, but only what worldly fools like to hear or want to hear.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Wrong.

The historic Christian Church NEVER taught this for the 1500 years prior to Luther. The Church has ALWAYS taught that Faith was a marriage of Belief + Works - as the Bible teaches.
So, what YOU are promoting is what was invented by Luther, your Protestant Father. You're right about ONE thing, though - you never studied . . .

That's the wonderful thing about history: You can't change it, no matter HOW hard you try and no matter HOW much you whine about it . . .

That marriage of Belief + Works, 'is of the Holy Spirit.' do you agree.

When one is water Baptised then one is or could be doing works, that are shown to them as good, as in to the regards of the Church or as to the Holy Spirit is being only being taught to them as such and they just along with the faith of such. but the thing is when one is truly Born Again, then one knows the Holy Spirit and you do not tag along in blind faith of other people or blindly follow a church and this is what happens with false doctrine that is being peddled out by so many churches.

When I was in the Protestant Church they would peddle that the RCC was peddling Good works, well my RC Bible does not support that stance at all, but I found out that many who are going to the RCC are all about good works in fact, I was shocked that the Protestants were correct in their assertions, I had to agree that that is what I came across, sadly they did not know the doctrines of the RCC or bothered to study their Bible, I was surrounded by ignorant idiots and when I said to them lets look at what the RCC Bible doctrine says, hey would run away, or I would point out to Father X listen boy don't try to play games with me making out that you are high and almighty I will sit down with you on any subject and go through it with the doctrines, well they could not run away fast enough. no one does that to the dogs, how many times do hey get challenge ?

Oh I could of said years ago, so what about all his child molesting going on that I hear about, do you know how that went down in 1980 and just get fobbed off with dribble, it was just not an issue to them, regardless of religion. don't mention such things and they will fad away.

 

[BreadOfLife]

That marriage of Belief + Works, 'is of the Holy Spirit.' do you agree.

When one is water Baptised then one is or could be doing works, that are shown to them as good, as in to the regards of the Church or as to the Holy Spirit is being only being taught to them as such and they just along with the faith of such. but the thing is when one is truly Born Again, then one knows the Holy Spirit and you do not tag along in blind faith of other people or blindly follow a church and this is what happens with false doctrine that is being peddled out by so many churches.

When I was in the Protestant Church they would peddle that the RCC was peddling Good works, well my RC Bible does not support that stance at all, but I found out that many who are going to the RCC are all about good works in fact, I was shocked that the Protestants were correct in their assertions, I had to agree that that is what I came across, sadly they did not know the doctrines of the RCC or bothered to study their Bible, I was surrounded by ignorant idiots and when I said to them lets look at what the RCC Bible doctrine says, hey would run away, or I would point out to Father X listen boy don't try to play games with me making out that you are high and almighty I will sit down with you on any subject and go through it with the doctrines, well they could not run away fast enough. no one does that to the dogs, how many times do hey get challenge ?

Oh I could of said years ago, so what about all his child molesting going on that I hear about, do you know how that went down in 1980 and just get fobbed off with dribble, it was just not an issue to them, regardless of religion. don't mention such things and they will fad away.

First of all - yes, it is of the Holy Spirit.

Secondly - unless we COOPERATE with the Holy Spirit, we cannot have true faith - and THAT'S what James is saying.

Finally - the molestation problem was and IS going on in MANY churches in MANY denominations, so,what's your point??

PS - What is "RCC"??