Dead Faith???

[BreadOfLife]

I prefer to let the Holy Spirit speak to you on the matter; rather than pontificate.

You are supposed to give a reason when somebody asks you about matters regarding the faith (1 Pet. 3:15).
You're not supposed to tell them to figure it out on their own.

 

[BreadOfLife]

not hard to understand works are a by product of the fruit of the spirit ..the biggest thing is when reformed here the word works the caution sing --FREAK OUT.. WORKS COMES FROM FAITH

Uhhhhhh, no.
That's what Luther taught. YOU told me that you didn't care what Luther said - but apparently you DO because you adhere to his invention.

Works are an essential element of faith.
You cannot have faith without belief.
And you cannot have faith without works.

James 2:14-26 teaches us in NO uncertain terms that: Belief + Works = Faith.
That's why Luther tried to get rid of that Book . . .

religious system is correct Luther done good getting away from the Catholics .but then he suddenly had create his new fangle dangle doctrine. i dont agree with the Catholics either .. your bread needs new life sorry.in a nut shell james is saying faith works..use it other wise of you never do any thing you have dead faith

James is saying precisely what I told you above:
Belief + Works = Faith.

You cannot have faith without either one . . .

 

[Ezra]

That's what Luther taught. YOU told me that you didn't care what Luther said - but apparently you DO because you adhere to his invention.

ummm no i have never studied what luthers new religious system has to say . the B I B LE THROUGH SCRIPTURES says so way before luther was born.. nice division tactic BUT NO CIGAR

 

[BreadOfLife]

ummm no i have never studied what luthers new religious system has to say . the B I B LE THROUGH SCRIPTURES says so way before luther was born.. nice division tactic BUT NO CIGAR

Wrong.

The historic Christian Church NEVER taught this for the 1500 years prior to Luther. The Church has ALWAYS taught that Faith was a marriage of Belief + Works - as the Bible teaches.
So, what YOU are promoting is what was invented by Luther, your Protestant Father. You're right about ONE thing, though - you never studied . . .

That's the wonderful thing about history: You can't change it, no matter HOW hard you try and no matter HOW much you whine about it . . .

 

[Ezra]

The historic Christian Church NEVER taught this for the 1500 years prior to Luther.

so you was around at that time? in case you failed to comprehend . i said THE BIBLE THROUGH SCRIPTURES

That's the wonderful thing about history: You can't change it, no matter HOW hard you try and no matter HOW much you whine about it

THE ONLY WHINGING is your quest to make luther a saint... i use scripture NOT LUTHER RELIGIOUS SYSTEM look here goober i am using scripture read Hebrews 11 BY FAITH ...........which works .......noah Abraham .............DO I NEED TO POST MORE ?

 

[BreadOfLife]

so you was around at that time? in case you failed to comprehend . i said THE BIBLE THROUGH SCRIPTURES

Yes - and I asked YOU - if the Bible taught this - WHY didn't the historic Christian Church teach this for the 1500 years PRIOR to Luther's birth??

I didn't have to be there. We have their writings and teachings, Einstein . . .

THE ONLY WHINGING is your quest to make luther a saint... i use scripture NOT LUTHER RELIGIOUS SYSTEM look here goober i am using scripture read Hebrews 11 BY FAITH ...........which works .......noah Abraham .............DO I NEED TO POST MORE ?

I'm not trying to make Luther a "saint". FAR from it.
I do, however, pray for God to have mercy on his soul for splintering the Body of Christ.

Hebrews 11 doesn't teach your Luther-invented doctrine any more than any other Book of Scripture.
NO Book of Scripture read in context teaches that simply "believing" is all that is required of us to be saved.

 

[justbyfaith]

Keeping His works till the end is the requirement of the saint. No one gets a reward for stopping the process of sanctification.

It is required specifically of Thyatira.

Those of certain other church designations are required only to have faith until the end...for they are saved through faith apart from works (Romans 4:6).

 

[Ezra]

Wrong.

The historic Christian Church NEVER taught this for the 1500 years prior to Luther. The Church has ALWAYS taught that Faith was a marriage of Belief + Works - as the Bible teaches.
So, what YOU are promoting is what was invented by Luther, your Protestant Father. You're right about ONE thing, though - you never studied . . .

That's the wonderful thing about history: You can't change it, no matter HOW hard you try and no matter HOW much you whine about it . . .

tell ya what finish the scripture Jesus said he was the ------ and the ------- and no man come to --------- ----- -------. no i have not studied lutheransm . i have no doubt like all men he had some good points.. but the Bible teaches faith w/o works is DEAD not luther if you can not understand this no matter how times you post. i am through with this worship of luther... subject

 

[justbyfaith]

You are supposed to give a reason when somebody asks you about matters regarding the faith (1 Pet. 3:15).
You're not supposed to tell them to figure it out on their own.

Nobody's perfect except for Jesus, I guess.

I'm not sure what reason I can give you except to tell you to study it out on your own.

 

[Ezra]

Yes - and I asked YOU - if the Bible taught this - WHY didn't the historic Christian Church teach this for the 1500 years PRIOR to Luther's birth??

I didn't have to be there. We have their writings and teachings, Einstein . . .

I'm not trying to make Luther a "saint". FAR from it.
I do, however, pray for God to have mercy on his soul for splintering the Body of Christ.

Hebrews 11 doesn't teach your Luther-invented doctrine any more than any other Book of Scripture.
NO Book of Scripture read in context teaches that simply "believing" is all that is required of us to be saved.

ok time to end this CHILD GAME.. THE BIBLE WAS HERE BEFORE LUTHER SOLO SCRIPTURE ..... THIS END THE DISCUSSION GO TAKE YOUR TOYS AND BUG SOMEONE WHO CARES., I DONT GOOD NIGHT

 

[BreadOfLife]

tell ya what finish the scripture Jesus said he was the ------ and the ------- and no man come to --------- ----- -------. no i have not studied lutheransm . i have no doubt like all men he had some good points.. but the Bible teaches faith w/o works is DEAD not luther if you can not understand this no matter how times you post. i am through with this worship of luther... subject

ok time to end this CHILD GAME.. THE BIBLE WAS HERE BEFORE LUTHER SOLO SCRIPTURE ..... THIS END THE DISCUSSION GO TAKE YOUR TOYS AND BUG SOMEONE WHO CARES., I DONT GOOD NIGHT

And Christ's Church was here before the Bible.

The Bible itself tells is that it His CHURCH that is the final Authority on earth - NOT the Bible (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

Just remember - works aren't a RESULT of faith.
Works are an essential element of faith, along with belief (James 2:14-26) . . .

 

[Phoneman777]

Faith - Trust - Confidence - Hope

All of the above words mean the same thing in that each one of them can be used to define the other.

Salvation: Faith - Trust - Confidence - Hope in what Jesus did on the cross to pay for our sins.

*******

And along comes James and his famous words; "Faith without works is dead."

Person #1. Making 140,000 a year and has extra money to give to Charities.
Has only one job and has the time to do Charitable works.
Has lots of works to make sure his faith is not dead and thinks he is a good Christian.
(see Luke 18:10-14)

Person #2. Making 45,000 a year and working two jobs has no money to part with.
Since he/she is working two jobs they have no time to do Charitable works and very little to socialize. -- The person ""worries"" that they are not doing enough works to make sure their faith is not dead and worries that their faith is dead.

Person #3. Living on a social security check has no spare money to give.
Has no money for a car and a car's expense to travel and do Charitable works.
""Worries"" that he/she is not doing enough to make sure their faith is not dead and they feel they are not a good Christian. (my mother was like this)

Note Person #3 is very susceptible to TV preachers saying they have to step out in faith and send them money.

***********

Question #1. --- What does the statement "faith without works" do to the faith, trust, confidence, and hope in Christ of persons #2 and #3? ---- What does it do to their peace and joy in Christ?

Question #2. --- Tell me how a person's works "increase their faith" and makes their faith ""perfect?"" ---- Doesn't it do just the opposite? Doesn’t it make them have faith in themselves and their efforts?

In this age the children of God are at rest in God and have ceased from their own works just as God did from His.

Heb 4:1-11

1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.
2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.
3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

"So I swore in My wrath,
'They shall not enter My rest,'"

although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works";
5 and again in this place: "They shall not enter My rest."
6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,
7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "Today," after such a long time, as it has been said:

"Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts."

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.
NKJV

What was the disobedience example??? see verse 3

"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

Don't see anything in that verse which classifies us by earnings, intellect, status, etc., just a general admonition/warning for all those who think obedience to God is optional.

 

[Phoneman777]

And Christ's Church was here before the Bible.

Yes, and the catholic version of Christ's church arose after Christ established His true church.

 

[justbyfaith]

And Christ's Church was here before the Bible.

The Bible itself tells is that it His CHURCH that is the final Authority on earth - NOT the Bible (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

Just remember - works aren't a RESULT of faith.
Works are an essential element of faith, along with belief (James 2:14-26) . . .

We are saved apart from works.

Rom 4:5, But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6, Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

 

[justbyfaith]

Wasn't Diotrephes the first Pope?

 

[Phoneman777]

This is why Luther despised the Epistle of James, referring to it as "The Epistle of Straw", and tried to remove it from the Canon.

In typical papist fashion, seek to leave out a crucial bit of history:
LUTHER EVENTUALLY ACCEPTED JAMES AS INSPIRED.

But, you papists excel at hiding things from people, right? We've been reading about a lot of you all hiding things about priests in the news lately, haven't we?

 

[justbyfaith]

1Ti 2:5, For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes, and the catholic version of Christ's church arose after Christ established His true church.

While the Apostles were alive, the Church was called "The Catholic Church".

We have documented proof of this from the Letter to the Smyrnaeans from Ignatius of Antioch who was a student of the Apostle John.

ALL of your whining and Catholic-hating can't change that because it's documented history . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

We are saved apart from works.

Rom 4:5, But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6, Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

We are saved by our faith, which is NOT the easy-believism that Protestants teach.

Our faith must be a faith that is WORKING through love (Gal. 5:6). THIS is why Paul said that the greatest virtue is LOVE (charity) (1 Cor. 13:13).

Faith = Belief + Works.
THAT'S a saving faith . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

In typical papist fashion, seek to leave out a crucial bit of history:
LUTHER EVENTUALLY ACCEPTED JAMES AS INSPIRED.

But, you papists excel at hiding things from people, right? We've been reading about a lot of you all hiding things about priests in the news lately, haven't we?

Luther accepted James as inspired ONLY at the urging of his contemporaries - especially his friend, Philip Melanchton. Do your homework.

Had it not been for Melanchton - Luther probably would have left this Book OUT of his German translation.
That's how little regard he had for it.