Dead in Sin !

[justbyfaith]

You have it backwards as I already stated.

yes the cart before the horse

Don't repent...wait for god to save you...

You can't repent until after god has saved you anyway...so it is useless to try.

See what I mean by repentance being downplayed in Calvinistic theology?

 

[brightfame52]

Don't repent...wait for god to save you...

You can't repent until after god has saved you anyway...so it is useless to try.

See what I mean by repentance being downplayed in Calvinistic theology?

If God doesn't save you first, you will never repent, as far as Salvation is concerned. A lost person cannot repent nor believe, they dead in sin!

 

[justbyfaith]

If God doesn't save you first, you will never repent, as far as Salvation is concerned. A lost person cannot repent nor believe, they dead in sin!

If you are already saved when you repent (if repentance comes after salvation), then you don't need to repent in order to be saved.

This is a dangerous doctrine of devils.

It implies that repentance isn't needed; for I can be saved without it: since if repentance comes after salvation, I am saved without repentance and therefore repentance isn't needed.

You can see how the doctrines of Calvinism downplay the importance of repentance.

(I am not necessarily talking to @brightfame52 or @Christophany here (for their minds are closed and their hearts hardened); but to those who are listening in to the conversation).

 

[ChristisGod]

@justbyfaith ad hominem

An ad hominem argument is a personal attack against the source of an argument, rather than against the argument itself. Essentially, this means that ad hominem arguments are used to attack opposing views indirectly, by attacking the individuals or groups that support these views.

Ad hominem arguments can take many forms, from basic name-calling to more complex rhetoric. For example, an ad hominem argument can involve simply insulting a person instead of properly replying to a point that they raised, or it can involve questioning their motives in response to their criticism of the current state of things.

Ad hominem arguments are common in both formal and informal discussions on various topics, so it’s important to understand them. As such, in the following article you will learn more about ad hominem arguments, see what types of them exist, and understand what you can do to respond to them properly.

In everyday language, the term ‘ad hominem argument’ is primarily used to refer to a fallacious personal attack against the source of an argument, that is unsound from a logical perspective.

This type of argument can be fallacious for a number of reasons, including, most notably, the following:

• The ad hominem attack is irrelevant to the discussion.
• The ad hominem attack is used as primarily as a diversion tactic, either to unjustifiably shift the burden of proof to someone else in the discussion or to change the topic.
• The ad hominem attack involves the faulty premise that an attack against the source of an argument necessarily constitutes a successful refutation of that argument.Ad Hominem: When People Use Personal Attacks in Arguments – Effectiviology

hope this helps !!!

 

[brightfame52]

jbf

If you are already saved when you repent (if repentance comes after salvation), then you don't need to repent in order to be saved.

Quite contrary, repentance accompanies Salvation and is a evidence thereof

 

[marks]

If God doesn't save you first, you will never repent, as far as Salvation is concerned. A lost person cannot repent nor believe, they dead in sin!

So then why does God tell people to repent?

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

@justbyfaith ad hominem

An ad hominem argument is a personal attack against the source of an argument, rather than against the argument itself. Essentially, this means that ad hominem arguments are used to attack opposing views indirectly, by attacking the individuals or groups that support these views.

Ad hominem arguments can take many forms, from basic name-calling to more complex rhetoric. For example, an ad hominem argument can involve simply insulting a person instead of properly replying to a point that they raised, or it can involve questioning their motives in response to their criticism of the current state of things.

Ad hominem arguments are common in both formal and informal discussions on various topics, so it’s important to understand them. As such, in the following article you will learn more about ad hominem arguments, see what types of them exist, and understand what you can do to respond to them properly.

In everyday language, the term ‘ad hominem argument’ is primarily used to refer to a fallacious personal attack against the source of an argument, that is unsound from a logical perspective.

This type of argument can be fallacious for a number of reasons, including, most notably, the following:

• The ad hominem attack is irrelevant to the discussion.
• The ad hominem attack is used as primarily as a diversion tactic, either to unjustifiably shift the burden of proof to someone else in the discussion or to change the topic.
• The ad hominem attack involves the faulty premise that an attack against the source of an argument necessarily constitutes a successful refutation of that argument.Ad Hominem: When People Use Personal Attacks in Arguments – Effectiviology

hope this helps !!!

If you are accusing me of using an ad hominem, please show where I have resorted to this and the nature of my attack.

jbf



Quite contrary, repentance accompanies Salvation and is a evidence thereof

If repentance is not unto salvation then repentance is not needed; because a person is saved without repentance.

This is a doctrine of devils.

Perhaps, @Christophany, you are saying that I am using an ad hominem against the devils that inspired this doctrine by calling them devils?

 

[justbyfaith]

Now if you are saying that repentance will always immediately follow salvation then that is a little better.

In such a case, a person is still not saved without repentance being in the equation.

But I think that such an idea might be contrary to the bent of your theology; because the aim of it is to tell people that they don't need to repent but that they can be saved without repentance; which is why the above point is rarely if ever clarified.

Again, this "ad hominem" is against the doctrine of devils and not against the human bearers of that doctrine. Therefore it is not, in truth, an ad hominem, according to the regular definition of that word.

 

[justbyfaith]

If God doesn't save you first, you will never repent, as far as Salvation is concerned. A lost person cannot repent nor believe, they dead in sin!

They can repent because the Holy Spirit's drawing enables them to repent with His help (see 2 Corinthians 6:2).

 

[farouk]

@justbyfaith ad hominem

An ad hominem argument is a personal attack against the source of an argument, rather than against the argument itself. Essentially, this means that ad hominem arguments are used to attack opposing views indirectly, by attacking the individuals or groups that support these views.

Ad hominem arguments can take many forms, from basic name-calling to more complex rhetoric. For example, an ad hominem argument can involve simply insulting a person instead of properly replying to a point that they raised, or it can involve questioning their motives in response to their criticism of the current state of things.

Ad hominem arguments are common in both formal and informal discussions on various topics, so it’s important to understand them. As such, in the following article you will learn more about ad hominem arguments, see what types of them exist, and understand what you can do to respond to them properly.

In everyday language, the term ‘ad hominem argument’ is primarily used to refer to a fallacious personal attack against the source of an argument, that is unsound from a logical perspective.

This type of argument can be fallacious for a number of reasons, including, most notably, the following:

• The ad hominem attack is irrelevant to the discussion.
• The ad hominem attack is used as primarily as a diversion tactic, either to unjustifiably shift the burden of proof to someone else in the discussion or to change the topic.
• The ad hominem attack involves the faulty premise that an attack against the source of an argument necessarily constitutes a successful refutation of that argument.Ad Hominem: When People Use Personal Attacks in Arguments – Effectiviology

hope this helps !!!

@Christophany The bottom line is, "What saith the Scriptures?", right?

 

[brightfame52]

So then why does God tell people to repent?

Much love!

I already stated, its to give evidence of having been saved, its a blessing of Salvation. Its a Gift from the Saviour Acts 5 31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins

That word give is the greek word didómi and means:

to give something to some one — in various senses;

1. of one's own accord to give one something, to his advantage; to bestow, give as a gift

It causes the forgiven one to repent

 

[justbyfaith]

I already stated, its to give evidence of having been saved, its a blessing of Salvation. Its a Gift from the Saviour Acts 5 31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins

That word give is the greek word didómi and means:

to give something to some one — in various senses;

1. of one's own accord to give one something, to his advantage; to bestow, give as a gift

It causes the forgiven one to repent

A gift must be received in order for the person to have possession of it.

 

[brightfame52]

They can repent because the Holy Spirit's drawing enables them to repent with His help (see 2 Corinthians 6:2).

The Holy Spirit enables them because He gives them life spiritual and causes them to repent as being born of Him. Its not the dead sinner anymore that repents. but the new man with a new mind !

 

[justbyfaith]

A gift must be received in order for the person to have possession of it.

And this would indicate that repentance and salvation happen at the exact same time, as the gift of the Lord to us.

 

[ChristisGod]

@Christophany The bottom line is, "What saith the Scriptures?", right?

Yep

 

[farouk]

Yep

@Christophany Indeed...

 

[justbyfaith]

And this would indicate that repentance and salvation happen at the exact same time, as the gift of the Lord to us.

Which precludes that repentance can indeed be the catalyst for salvation as repentance does not happen after salvation but at the very same time.

 

[brightfame52]

A gift must be received in order for the person to have possession of it.

It is received by causing them to be born again. When a person is born they received life from God. It was bestowed upon them as a Gift

 

[brightfame52]

A gift must be received in order for the person to have possession of it.

Also a dead person cannot receive anything, hes dead remember ? To actively receive something presupposes that person has life.

 

[justbyfaith]

Which precludes that repentance can indeed be the catalyst for salvation as repentance does not happen after salvation but at the very same time.

And repentance, also, is an act of the will (Joshua 24:15, John 1:12, Revelation 22:17).