Dear Church, Here’s Why People Are REALLY Leaving You

[Born_Again]

No, I have the Holy Spirit, Jesus and God as an authority, there is no mention of any other.

Yes I read the KJ but I also have copies of others, the bible is not my God, God is my God, Jesus is my truth for in Him there is no lie.

As for those spelling mistakes, See im not perfect even with spell checker on.


Have you not read,

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Did not Jesus say that He was teh way the truth and the life??

In all His Love

Hey, if you are going to quote me, get the entire quote in there. Don't pick and choose. It takes away from your own credibility.. Here is the correct quote...... :)

" So let me understand, you are presuming that a certain percentage of the Christian community only read the Bible and don't give themselves over to Christ? That is entirely true, but try to tie your argument in with what you are originally getting at."

Have a great day!

BA

 

[mjrhealth]

The bible says ' thou shall have no other Gods before me' Yet christians will belive the bible before the believe God. Sad fact Christ said, " you search teh scriptures thinkinking the ybring you life, yet they testify of men, and you wont come to me so I can give you life.

God s Word is Life, the bible is teh dead letter it cannot give anyone life. God is not the author of confusion yet 2000 christian forums, 46 different versions of the bible and countless denomibation are testament to teh fact taht the bible is not God word. It certainly does have in it things God has to say to man, but it is not God and is ceratinly not equal to nor above God..

Again if teh bible was God word it would all be truth, we would all have life and be walking in the truth, there would be nothing to discuss nor argue over, even a 2 year old child could undestand that, I guess it is why Jesus said we must come to Him Like little children insead of grown ups.

In allHis Love

 

[Born_Again]

The bible says ' thou shall have no other Gods before me' Yet christians will belive the bible before the believe God. Sad fact Christ said, " you search teh scriptures thinkinking the ybring you life, yet they testify of men, and you wont come to me so I can give you life.

God s Word is Life, the bible is teh dead letter it cannot give anyone life. God is not the author of confusion yet 2000 christian forums, 46 different versions of the bible and countless denomibation are testament to teh fact taht the bible is not God word. It certainly does have in it things God has to say to man, but it is not God and is ceratinly not equal to nor above God..

Again if teh bible was God word it would all be truth, we would all have life and be walking in the truth, there would be nothing to discuss nor argue over, even a 2 year old child could undestand that, I guess it is why Jesus said we must come to Him Like little children insead of grown ups.

In allHis Love

mjrheatlh, I dont understand how you can use the Bible like you did here:
Then say, "Which version of the truth is true?"

Either A: You don't understand how all of the different versions can be true at the same time (which we will explain to you..)
or B: None of them are the truth, and you, personally, shouldn't even bother using the Bible in discussion since it's "not inspired by God" as you said you have believed in a different thread (which I can quote for you).

some points people are agreeing with you and are saying:

• We do need Jesus
• The Bible is not equal to, or a replacement for God/Jesus/Holy Spirit
• The entire Bible is from God
• We need to consult God/Jesus/Holy Spirit + the Bible to make decisions, not just the Bible
• You are able to prove without a doubt which "versions" of the Bible are true, and untrue.

The entire bible is considered "God breathed Scripture", It just seems like you're choosing to disagree for no good reason. I'm not trying to provoke you, I just genuinely don't understand what your reason is for saying that there are "variations" of the truth. God doesn't change. Truth doesn't change. It can represented, and misrepresented, but the truth hasn't changed as a result of its representation.

mjrhealth, I am curious to what your response is to what Doug asked. Do you not believe that scripture is God breathed?

 

[mjrhealth]

That depends on which part is from God and which part is from man. But you see christians refuse to take things to God because they believe that God is in a book, The reality of Him seems to be far distant. Even JEsus said we must got to Him, in Revelation He even says. I stand at the door knocking", but so few let Him in. The bible tells us that we couldnt fit all that Christ did in His life in one book, how much less of God do you think we could contain. It is one thing to know about God which is all even the bible can deliver, its another to know God and that can only come through revelation and a relationship with Him, You cant have a relationship with a book. Jesus is real, you know about Him, know go to Him.

I dont have to agree with people only God

In all His Love

 

[Born_Again]

That depends on which part is from God and which part is from man. But you see christians refuse to take things to God because they believe that God is in a book, The reality of Him seems to be far distant. Even JEsus said we must got to Him, in Revelation He even says. I stand at the door knocking", but so few let Him in. The bible tells us that we couldnt fit all that Christ did in His life in one book, how much less of God do you think we could contain. It is one thing to know about God which is all even the bible can deliver, its another to know God and that can only come through revelation and a relationship with Him, You cant have a relationship with a book. Jesus is real, you know about Him, know go to Him.

I dont have to agree with people only God

In all His Love

Not in an attempt to discredit you, you do make a good point, but I think you use the term "Christians" rather loosely here. To be a Christian is to follow Christ. If a person only looks to the Bible for answers and not to Christ, then they in fact do not a have a working relationship with Christ. They may believe in God, but they are certainly not a Christian. More of a "Sunday Christian" I guess would be more appropriate. I'm not sure what would be a better term, but certainly not Christian.

BA

 

[mjrhealth]

Not in an attempt to discredit you,

Doesnt bother me in the least. If people went to Christ and asked, and received revelation than we would all be better off.

Christians dont know what it is they are missing out on because they limit God so.

In all His Love

 

[Wormwood]

So....we cant go to the Bible...because it is a work of man filled with errors. So we should just trust you and your personal experiences with Jesus and personal revelations? Your logic is baffling....and consistent with that of many cult leaders.

 

[mjrhealth]

So....we cant go to the Bible...because it is a work of man filled with errors. So we should just trust you and your personal experiences with Jesus and personal revelations? Your logic is baffling....and consistent with that of many cult leaders.

I never said that we cant go to the bible but dont you think God is worth persuing first.

is being Led by the Spirit so baffling or like the israelites coming out of Egypt just too hard

Joh_14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Rom_8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

IF you believe the bible before you would believe God, than it is an idle. We shall have no other Gods beforeme, you know the one.

Christ gave you the Holy Spirit so you could come into the truth, if you deny the holy spirit than you deny Christ because He is the truth.

It is not a cult unless you consider christianity a cult, it all there in your bible.

In all His Love

 

[Barrd]

I was there. I was there every single time the church doors opened. I contributed to the Sunday school lesson, I sang in the choir, I contributed to the church bulletin, I wrote a play for the kids about the two men on the road to Emmaus, if there were a bazaar of any other such event, I would volunteer, I was there with the ladies on Tuesday night to help clean the sanctuary, I taught vacation Bible school...oh, yeah, I was there.
And it was all an empty sham.
This was not what God had called me to do at all. Oh it was a lot of fun...but we weren't reaching anyone. People were leaving. The church kept growing smaller...down to just a few older members, and they are beginning to die off.

And then came the year the pastor decided that, since Christmas fell on a Sunday, he would close the church doors so that he could have Christmas with his family...
For some reason, that was the thing that turned the light on in my brain. I thought of the Christmases we'd had as kids, bringing our toys and books and outgrown clothing to the Salvation Army, and helping out in the church basement where there was always a huge Christmas dinner for those who could not afford Christmas at home...complete with a tree and a Santa with gifts for the little ones.
I remembered how, when someone was sick, or hurt, members of the church would go to that person's house to help with the cooking and cleaning and whatever other kind of help was needed.
Yes, and I remembered when my Dad was laid off, and people helped us to keep our house, and brought us food and other things we needed until he went back to work again.
I remembered how, when I fell of my bike and broke my arm, my hospital room was crowded with flowers and toys that the members of the church had brought, and not a single day went by when the pastor and his wife did not come to check on me. Many other members came to visit me, too...and of course, everyone had to sign my cast.
I remember my Dad giving rides to people who had no transportation...to the store, to the doctor's office...and, of course, to church.
I remembered how, when one of the members died, everyone in the church got together to help her family through the dark days of learning to live without their wife and mother. Every evening, one of the women would be at her house, making supper for the bereaved husband and kids, and the men all got together to help pay for the funeral, since this young family did not have life insurance...oh, yes...I remembered these things.
I remembered so many things like this...and I began to wonder what I was doing in this dead church?

I am no longer an active member. Oh, I still drop in occasionally, just to meet and greet...but what I really wanted to do was to get down in the dirt with Jesus and lift people up...not sing to people who didn't need me at all...

 

[Josho]

Mjrhealth, i'm pretty sure it says in the Bible to meditate on the word of God day and night.

As an answer to the op, i think people are leaving church for many different reasons, not just one.

 

[OzSpen]

Mjrhealth, i'm pretty sure it says in the Bible to meditate on the word of God day and night.

As an answer to the op, i think people are leaving church for many different reasons, not just one.

Josho,

What would you say are the reasons that you know why people are leaving the church?

Oz

 

[Josho]

Josho,

What would you say are the reasons that you know why people are leaving the church?

Oz

Long church services, some people find the sermons boring at their church, maybe they don't like the worship music, simply because it's not their style. Than you have teenagers with doubts in their mind about whether if their is a God, then there's others leaving because they don't see the fun in Christianity and they think God is mean for sending people to hell and they think the Bible is a rule book. Then you have a few whacky churches here and there, with pedophiles running around them and witches sitting at the back, people chasing angels instead of Jesus, I'm sure their are more reasons for people leaving Church.

 

[OzSpen]

Long church services, some people find the sermons boring at their church, maybe they don't like the worship music, simply because it's not their style. Than you have teenagers with doubts in their mind about whether if their is a God, then there's others leaving because they don't see the fun in Christianity and they think God is mean for sending people to hell and they think the Bible is a rule book. Then you have a few whacky churches here and there, with pedophiles running around them and witches sitting at the back, people chasing angels instead of Jesus, I'm sure their are more reasons for people leaving Church.

Josho,

So how long do you think services should be?

What's the difference between a boring and a not-boring sermon?

What kinds of worship music do you like? Do you get it where you attend church?

How many churches have you attended where teenagers' doubts were addressed in sermons/talks? That gets into the topic of apologetics - which seems like an avoided ministry in churches here in Brisbane. I don't know of churches in northern Brisbane that have a reputation for consistently defending the faith in dealing with topics of sceptics and doubters.

There's a good topic for you to start on CyF: Is hell fair?

Do you think the Bible is a rule book? Where would we be in Australia without rules for the roads, building codes, law & order, etc?

Yep, I've been to a few whacko churches. I wrote about one in a church I visited last year, 'Charismatic chaos in a Brisbane house church'.

I've addressed a few of these on my homepage:

I also have a concern about the nature of the sermon. That influenced me to write this article, Can the Sermon Be Redeemed?

I also have these concerns: How bad is the downgrade in your evangelical church?

What about the problem with, Marketing the church?

May you have a good one.

In Christ,
Oz

 

[Josho]

Josho,

So how long do you think services should be?

What's the difference between a boring and a not-boring sermon?

What kinds of worship music do you like? Do you get it where you attend church?

How many churches have you attended where teenagers' doubts were addressed in sermons/talks? That gets into the topic of apologetics - which seems like an avoided ministry in churches here in Brisbane. I don't know of churches in northern Brisbane that have a reputation for consistently defending the faith in dealing with topics of sceptics and doubters.

There's a good topic for you to start on CyF: Is hell fair?

Do you think the Bible is a rule book? Where would we be in Australia without rules for the roads, building codes, law & order, etc?

Yep, I've been to a few whacko churches. I wrote about one in a church I visited last year, 'Charismatic chaos in a Brisbane house church'.

I've addressed a few of these on my homepage:

I also have a concern about the nature of the sermon. That influenced me to write this article, Can the Sermon Be Redeemed?

I also have these concerns: How bad is the downgrade in your evangelical church?

What about the problem with, Marketing the church?

May you have a good one.

In Christ,
Oz

There shouldn't be a set length of time for a church service, but it should be kept simple, same goes for the sermons, if you make a sermon too complicated not everyone will understand and some may end up getting nothing out of it. What kinds of worship music i like? i like most kinds of worship music, i was speaking more for others, some don't like more modern stuff like Planet Shakers cause it's too loud and noisy. I don't see the Bible a rule book, yes it does have instructions on how we should live our lives as Christians to be a light to the world, but there is a lot more too it than that, rules are just there because God knows what's best for us, after all he created us. And i can't say i have heard much on churches addressing teenagers doubts, i think the only way to fix that is to be seeing more miracles taking place in the church, especially here in Australia, i don't hear of many miracles happening in Church in Australia, i have heard of them and seen them for myself though, Praise the Lord. ;)

 

[OzSpen]

There shouldn't be a set length of time for a church service, but it should be kept simple, same goes for the sermons, if you make a sermon too complicated not everyone will understand and some may end up getting nothing out of it. What kinds of worship music i like? i like most kinds of worship music, i was speaking more for others, some don't like more modern stuff like Planet Shakers cause it's too loud and noisy. I don't see the Bible a rule book, yes it does have instructions on how we should live our lives as Christians to be a light to the world, but there is a lot more too it than that, rules are just there because God knows what's best for us, after all he created us. And i can't say i have heard much on churches addressing teenagers doubts, i think the only way to fix that is to be seeing more miracles taking place in the church, especially here in Australia, i don't hear of many miracles happening in Church in Australia, i have heard of them and seen them for myself though, Praise the Lord. ;)

Josho,

If you want to hear an excellent expository preacher in Australia (he's a Welshman), he is Rev David Jones at Ann Street Presbyterian Church in downtown Brisbane. Choose his sermons by clicking on the MP3 link on the right-hand side of the sermon on the webpage HERE. You wont get any light-hearted, topical sermons from him. But he sure gets my attention. My wife enjoys the sermons of Steve Lawson (USA).

I'm not against rock music in its place. After all, I'm a former radio rock DJ in the era of Elvis, the Beatles, Bee Gees, Beach Boys, Jerry & the Pacemakers, Jimi Hendrix, Rolling Stones, Johnny Farnham, Cilla Black (who died the other day at the age of 72), etc. But as for Planet Shakers, I find that to be unsingable congregational music (for me as one who has little musical ability), that is designed for entertainment and accompanied by frivolous lyrics. Do you like the music of groups like Planet Shakers and would you like to hear more of this in the church? What about this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=0jwkpd2nAto[SIZE=13.5pt] [/SIZE]

As for miracles, I consider that Jesus hit the mark in Luke 16:31 (NIV), where it states, '"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'"

Therefore, if people won't listen to Scripture, they are not going to be convinced of God, Jesus and the Gospel by miracles - even if someone rises from the dead.

Oz

 

[LaDela]

If our only goal would be to see more of Jesus in ourselves and others, then all these other things would not matter anymore. We are not to look at the Church (each other) and judge them for not doing enough, or not being more loving or welcoming or whatever. The Church is people not a club but we have made it into a club and therefore we judge it according to performance and other outward measures. If they are un-welcoming, we should be more welcoming. If they are unloving, we should be more loving. Maybe they just need to see an example. Can we be the examples that radiate Christ? A lot of churches are mission grounds and need to be evangelized, too. Comparing ourselves with others or this church with that church is a trap many of us fall into.

2Co_10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

This is so very true! The focus of the Church and the church house should be Christ. There wouldn't be time to look around at what everyone else is doing. People treat the church house like customers at a shopping mall these days. If all your church house offered was Bible study in one room with no chairs or bells and whistles...but focused solely on Christ and God's Word, you are doing great.

 

[Josho]

Josho,

If you want to hear an excellent expository preacher in Australia (he's a Welshman), he is Rev David Jones at Ann Street Presbyterian Church in downtown Brisbane. Choose his sermons by clicking on the MP3 link on the right-hand side of the sermon on the webpage HERE. You wont get any light-hearted, topical sermons from him. But he sure gets my attention. My wife enjoys the sermons of Steve Lawson (USA).

I'm not against rock music in its place. After all, I'm a former radio rock DJ in the era of Elvis, the Beatles, Bee Gees, Beach Boys, Jerry & the Pacemakers, Jimi Hendrix, Rolling Stones, Johnny Farnham, Cilla Black (who died the other day at the age of 72), etc. But as for Planet Shakers, I find that to be unsingable congregational music (for me as one who has little musical ability), that is designed for entertainment and accompanied by frivolous lyrics. Do you like the music of groups like Planet Shakers and would you like to hear more of this in the church? What about this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=0jwkpd2nAto[SIZE=13.5pt] [/SIZE]

As for miracles, I consider that Jesus hit the mark in Luke 16:31 (NIV), where it states, '"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'"

Therefore, if people won't listen to Scripture, they are not going to be convinced of God, Jesus and the Gospel by miracles - even if someone rises from the dead.

Oz

I'm not against rock either, I don't mind ZZ Top, Lynyrd Skynyrd or the Eagles, but I personally don't really like the planet shakers, like u said it's more for entertainment, that's fine, but Church is not a concert, the focus should be on Christ, like what was said above and not on the band, i feel most people go to Planet Shakers for the music and to socialize. Some people though, like me, grow in their faith, when hearing and seeing of miracles, and i reckon this will help a lot of other young ones out there too. You are always gonna have medical and scientific minds refusing to believe in miracles though.

 

[ATP]

I hate church, and I'll admit it. I love Jesus but hate religion. Waking up at 6am in the morning on a Sunday, oh no.

 

[OzSpen]

I hate church, and I'll admit it. I love Jesus but hate religion. Waking up at 6am in the morning on a Sunday, oh no.

I find that kind of comment to be poisonous (lacking edification) as you have not given us any kind of discussion about what drives you away from churches of your brand of Christianity to the point of hate.

Are you prepared to share, but without vindictive sentiment?

 

[ATP]

I find that kind of comment to be poisonous (lacking edification) as you have not given us any kind of discussion about what drives you away from churches of your brand of Christianity to the point of hate.

Are you prepared to share, but without vindictive sentiment?

I feel empty when I leave church. It doesn't inspire me. Most corporations don't.