Dear Church, Here’s Why People Are REALLY Leaving You

[aspen]

The bible is not necessary for Christians. It is valuable and contributes to spiritual growth, but not necessary. The Bible was not sacrificed on a cross for our sins.

 

[mjrhealth]

The bible is not necessary for Christians. It is valuable and contributes to spiritual growth, but not necessary. The Bible was not sacrificed on a cross for our sins.

Amen Aspen,

Christ is the only necessity to Life.

He did give us teh Holy Spirit for a reason.

In All His love

 

[OzSpen]

The bible is not necessary for Christians. It is valuable and contributes to spiritual growth, but not necessary. The Bible was not sacrificed on a cross for our sins.

Without the Bible, you would not know that Jesus was sacrificed on the cross for sins. The proclamation of that marvellous message comes through Scripture.

Your view about the Bible not being necessary for Christians is proven false by considering the content of 2 Tim 3:16-17 (ESV): 'All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work'.

The Bible - Scripture - is NEEDED for teaching, reproof, correction and training in righteousness to complete and equip every Christian (people of God) for every good work.

I don't know where you are obtaining the information that the Bible is not necessary for Christians. Is that what your church is teaching?

 

[OzSpen]

Amen Aspen,

Christ is the only necessity to Life.

He did give us teh Holy Spirit for a reason.

In All His love

He also gave us the Bible for several reasons (see 2 Tim 3:16-17 ESV).

 

[aspen]

Without the Bible, you would not know that Jesus was sacrificed on the cross for sins. The proclamation of that marvellous message comes through Scripture.

Your view about the Bible not being necessary for Christians is proven false by considering the content of 2 Tim 3:16-17 (ESV): 'All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work'.

The Bible - Scripture - is NEEDED for teaching, reproof, correction and training in righteousness to complete and equip every Christian (people of God) for every good work.

I don't know where you are obtaining the information that the Bible is not necessary for Christians. Is that what your church is teaching?

Really? So all the eye witness accounts had to be in written form or they are not considered valid? Bad news for the illiterate! I think you are confusing Christianity with Protestantism - if you were claiming that the Bible is necessary for Protestantism and Sola Scriptura then I would have to agree with you, but since both concepts were introduced 1500 years after Christ, neither are relevant to your question.

 

[OzSpen]

Really? So all the eye witness accounts had to be in written form or they are not considered valid? Bad news for the illiterate! I think you are confusing Christianity with Protestantism - if you were claiming that the Bible is necessary for Protestantism and Sola Scriptura then I would have to agree with you, but since both concepts were introduced 1500 years after Christ, neither are relevant to your question.

Luke tells us in Luke 1:1-4 (ESV) that his narrative Gospel (written document) included information from others who had compiled narratives and those who were eyewitnesses had delivered information to him. Of course there was oral tradition in the beginning, BUT it became written narrative to pass on the Gospel and the teachings of Christ and the apostles.

The illiterate had oral tradition in the beginning and proclamation associated with it. When oral tradition entered written form and the NT canon was formed, there was written material from which to proclaim and teach.

So, are Wycliffe Bible Translators and SIL International wasting their time translating the Scriptures into all of the languages of the world?

From where does a person in the Central African Republic, Burkina Faso or Peru obtain Gospel oral tradition so that they can respond to the Gospel message?

The necessity of Scripture was evident from the church Scriptures, hence the formation of the NT canon.

The importance of Scripture is not a doctrine invented by the Protestants.

It's false to say that the authority of Scripture is a Protestant constructed doctrine

St Augustine of Hippo affirmed the authority of Scripture in 'Of the Good of Widowhood':

verse 2: 'For holy Scripture sets a rule to our teaching, that we dare not be wise more than it behooves to be wise; but be wise, as himself says, unto soberness, according as unto each God has allotted the measure of faith. Be it not therefore for me to teach you any other thing, save to expound to you the words of the Teacher, and to treat of them as the Lord shall have given to me'.

verse 4: 'He shows sufficiently that a faithful woman is blessed in the Lord, even when she marries a second time after the death of her husband, but that a widow is more blessed in the same Lord; that is, to speak not only in the words, but by instances also, of the Scriptures, that Ruth is blessed, but that Anna is more blessed'.

verse 8: 'we are not so to understand, as though a faithful woman being married and chaste, and according to the Scriptures subject unto her husband'.

verse 10: 'Anna once married a widow was on this account more blessed, in that she attained also to be a prophetess of Christ; concerning whom we are to believe, that, although she had no sons, (which indeed Scripture by keeping silence has left uncertain,) yet, had she by that Spirit foreseen that Christ would immediately come of a virgin, by Which she was enabled to recognize Him even as a child'.

verse 15: 'For rebuking them, He says, You do err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they shall neither be married, nor marry wives; for they shall not begin to die, but shall be equal to the Angels of God"'.

verse 21: 'Listen to Scripture'.

Oz

 

[aspen]

If the Bible remained in oral form only, it would be just as authoritative, OZ - pretending that I've written anything else is intellectually dishonest. Jesus was the Word in flesh because He was and is the living form of the word. The Bible is a snapshot of the reality of the Gospel. Jesus alone is enough to communicate the gospel completely.

Also, you know as well as I do the word "sufficient" does not, in any manner communicate "exclusive" or "alone". Safeway may be sufficient to supply me with groceries, but that does not exclude other grocery stores.

 

[OzSpen]

If the Bible remained in oral form only, it would be just as authoritative, OZ - pretending that I've written anything else is intellectually dishonest. Jesus was the Word in flesh because He was and is the living form of the word. The Bible is a snapshot of the reality of the Gospel. Jesus alone is enough to communicate the gospel completely.

Also, you know as well as I do the word "sufficient" does not, in any manner communicate "exclusive" or "alone". Safeway may be sufficient to supply me with groceries, but that does not exclude other grocery stores.

Why didn't you respond to the information I provided that the issue of scriptural authority is NOT a Reformation doctrine? It was an issue long before the Reformation as Augustine's writings demonstrated - and I only chose example from one of Augustine's compositions.

It is very difficult to keep oral tradition accurate. Yes, I can accept that in the early centuries of the church, oral tradition was authoritative as there were no other means of transmission. It is just too easy for oral tradition to be skewed with intrusive content. That can happen with written content, but it is easier to pick up, as the early church found with Marcion's excision of large chunks of Scripture and the Gnostics extra-canonical writings.

What is the authoritative oral tradition that you are passing on today? From where did you obtain it? Do you ignore the teaching of Scripture in your church gathering?

Oz

 

[mjrhealth]

Can some one explain to me How one God with one truth turened into 46 variations of teh truth.

The scriptures as Jesus said, tells you of Christ than just like He told teh people, than you are supposed to go to Christ. a bit like a GPS shows you your destnation. Problem is Christians have made the bible equal to God, some even elevate it above God, far to many have made it an idol and so never know God they just simply know about Him, There is a big difference.

In all His Love

 

[OzSpen]

Can some one explain to me How one God with one truth turened into 46 variations of teh truth.

The scriptures as Jesus said, tells you of Christ than just like He told teh people, than you are supposed to go to Christ. a bit like a GPS shows you your destnation. Problem is Christians have made the bible equal to God, some even elevate it above God, far to many have made it an idol and so never know God they just simply know about Him, There is a big difference.

In all His Love

Do you understand the meaning of theopneustos in 2 Tim 3:16-17 (ESV)? '16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work'

 

[mjrhealth]

Oh so God is a liar, what part of 46 different version of a truth can all be true. Either one is true ot they are all lies. God is true. Is the bible greater than God??

And so we know some of teh bible is scripture, which part.

In All His Love

 

[OzSpen]

Oh so God is a liar, what part of 46 different version of a truth can all be true. Either one is true ot they are all lies. God is true. Is the bible greater than God??

And so we know some of teh bible is scripture, which part.

In All His Love

Who are you saying is promoting God is a liar in this thread?

What are these 46 different versions of a truth? Where can I find them?

 

[mjrhealth]

Well Ozpen, whcih version would you like, the KJV, the MKJV teh New KJV teh amplified, teh inrernational NIV, should I go on, or is it the protestans version, teh catholic version teh Jehovah version which would you like,.
a house divided against itself cannot stand, is Christ didvided against Himself how can that be. There is a reason why God gives us teh holy spirirt, theer is a reason why Christ calls all men to Himself. Pity as He said so few find Him.

In All His Love

 

[OzSpen]

Well Ozpen, whcih version would you like, the KJV, the MKJV teh New KJV teh amplified, teh inrernational NIV, should I go on, or is it the protestans version, teh catholic version teh Jehovah version which would you like,.
a house divided against itself cannot stand, is Christ didvided against Himself how can that be. There is a reason why God gives us teh holy spirirt, theer is a reason why Christ calls all men to Himself. Pity as He said so few find Him.

In All His Love

I guess they are the versions where I'm able to discern the meaning in spite of disparate spelling and statements:

• teh New KJV;
• teh amplified,
• teh inrernational NIV,
• the protestans version,
• teh catholic version
• teh Jehovah version
• Christ didvided against Himself
• teh holy spirirt, theer is a reason

 

[mjrhealth]

Interesting, our God who is infallible makes mistakes, only men could draw that reasoining,

Even the bible states that Jesus was the word of God come in the flesh, never ever did the bible make the claim that it was scripture nor did jesus ever say He would give us a book, He seems to have this strange claim about a Holy Spirit sent to show men the truth. But I guess if we have teh bible we dont need Him.


In ALl His :Love

 

[OzSpen]

Interesting, our God who is infallible makes mistakes, only men could draw that reasoining,

Even the bible states that Jesus was the word of God come in the flesh, never ever did the bible make the claim that it was scripture nor did jesus ever say He would give us a book, He seems to have this strange claim about a Holy Spirit sent to show men the truth. But I guess if we have teh bible we dont need Him.


In ALl His :Love

Why then did Jesus bother to refer to the Old Testament Scriptures?

Take a read of, Jesus' References to Old Testament Scriptures

Your line of reasoning doesn't hold up with the Son of God himself and his view of the Old Testament Scriptures and his use of them in his ministry.

 

[mjrhealth]

Well we should get back to teh OP but remember He Jesus, refered to teh Torah there was no knew Testament. And what did He say of it.

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Has anything changed, even today christians read teh bible yet dont take things to Christ. If teh bible was Gods word if it all was true we would all be walking in truth there would be nothing to contend over, for our understanding would all be the same.

The bible says teh letter killeth, its the spirit that gives life, thats because the letter requires ones own understanding the spirit leans on God fro revelation. All these denominations have taken some bit of teh bible and than used it to say they have found the way, when we all know that Christ is the only way, there is no other.

So wahy are people leaving mens church,

come out of her my people lest you be a partaker of her plagues for he sins have reached to heaven.

One sleeps with a whore one gets sick.

we are married to Christ we are His church, if you are in another you are being unfaithfull.

In all His love

 

[Born_Again]

Interesting, our God who is infallible makes mistakes, only men could draw that reasoining,

Even the bible states that Jesus was the word of God come in the flesh, never ever did the bible make the claim that it was scripture nor did jesus ever say He would give us a book, He seems to have this strange claim about a Holy Spirit sent to show men the truth. But I guess if we have teh bible we dont need Him.


In ALl His :Love

Wow! Where did that come from? So let me understand, you are presuming that a certain percentage of the Christian community only read the Bible and don't give themselves over to Christ? That is entirely true, but try to tie your argument in with what you are originally getting at. Your responses seem to be a bit unorganized. And please, for the love of all that is holy, turn spell-check on.

Yes, there are many different version of the bible. Many of the them however can be articulated to read the same. Owning a thesaurus would show you this. You have to take into account when each version was written and what vernacular was used in that period of time... I would venture a guess that you see the KJV as an authority?

Eager for your response....

BA

 

[mjrhealth]

.. I would venture a guess that you see the KJV as an authority?

No, I have the Holy Spirit, Jesus and God as an authority, there is no mention of any other.

Yes I read the KJ but I also have copies of others, the bible is not my God, God is my God, Jesus is my truth for in Him there is no lie.

As for those spelling mistakes, See im not perfect even with spell checker on.

Wow! Where did that come from? So let me understand, you are presuming that a certain percentage of the Christian community only read the Bible and don't give themselves over to Christ?

Have you not read,

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Did not Jesus say that He was teh way the truth and the life??

In all His Love

 

[Doug_E_Fresh]

mjrheatlh, I dont understand how you can use the Bible like you did here:

Even the bible states that Jesus was the word of God come in the flesh, never ever did the bible make the claim that it was scripture nor did jesus ever say He would give us a book, He seems to have this strange claim about a Holy Spirit sent to show men the truth.

Then say, "Which version of the truth is true?"

Either A: You don't understand how all of the different versions can be true at the same time (which we will explain to you..)
or B: None of them are the truth, and you, personally, shouldn't even bother using the Bible in discussion since it's "not inspired by God" as you said you have believed in a different thread (which I can quote for you).

some points people are agreeing with you and are saying:

• We do need Jesus
• The Bible is not equal to, or a replacement for God/Jesus/Holy Spirit
• The entire Bible is from God
• We need to consult God/Jesus/Holy Spirit + the Bible to make decisions, not just the Bible
• You are able to prove without a doubt which "versions" of the Bible are true, and untrue.

The entire bible is considered "God breathed Scripture", It just seems like you're choosing to disagree for no good reason. I'm not trying to provoke you, I just genuinely don't understand what your reason is for saying that there are "variations" of the truth. God doesn't change. Truth doesn't change. It can represented, and misrepresented, but the truth hasn't changed as a result of its representation.