'Death is swallowed up in victory' -When?

[CadyandZoe]

"Death is swallowed up in victory - when" ALREADY TODAY ! HALLELUYAH ! for those transformed - born again, as just noted in another thread - in the twinkling of an eye ....

Aren't you confusing potential with actual? I don't know if you have experienced death first hand. My father died. My mother died. My step-mother died. My wife's parents died. My brother died. My sister died. I'll declare victory the day they walk around here and talk to me face-to-face. Resurrection life is a false construct. Being born again is the seed, not the flower.

 

[Earburner]

Sort of Skipped Judgement don't you think?



WHO said The Unsaved survive? I didn't.
Don't you know the difference between Believing in God, In Christ AND opening your mouth and Confessing a VOW of Faith?
Believer Mortals will bodily escape the Tribulation Destruction, and Repopulate the Earth, during The Lords 1,000 yr Reign.




Rev 20:
[2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
[4] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
[7] And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

You obviously do not read or study Scripture and come with a pocketful of fanciful opinions that contradict Scripture.

Glory to God,
Taken

You are of the Premillennial view, and I am of the Amillennial view.
Now, for the two other views that are out there, there can ONLY BE one view that is taking place, or shall take place.

 

[Earburner]

What exactly are you saying is "fictitious"?
Tribulation?
The Time period of 7 years?
Or Both?

The 7 years!
That wild eyed concoction came about, due a complete misunderstanding of what the 70 weeks in Daniel (KJV) is all about.

 

[dev553344]

'Behold, I shew you a mystery;
We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump:
for the trumpet shall sound,
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,
and we shall be changed.

For this corruptible must put on incorruption,
and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption,
and this mortal shall have put on immortality,
then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,
Death is swallowed up in victory.

'O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Therefore, my beloved brethren,
be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord,
forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.'
(1 Corinthians 15:55)

Hello there,

I have begun a study on resurrection, and began with reading through 1 Corinthians 15, a wonderful chapter on that subject.

The verses above show clearly that it is at the moment of our resurrection from the dead that death for us will be swallowed up in victory. Not at the moment of our death, but at our resurrection from the dead, which is yet to come.

Do you have any comment.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

To me this means when you're resurrected and become like the angels to God you can no longer sin. Matthew 19:25-26 suggests that God saves whom he desires to save and makes salvation possible. God is impeccable and so are his angels.

 

[charity]

To me this means when you're resurrected and become like the angels to God you can no longer sin. Matthew 19:25-26 suggests that God saves whom he desires to save and makes salvation possible. God is impeccable and so are his angels.

'When His disciples heard it,
they were exceedingly amazed,
saying, Who then can be saved?
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them,
With men this is impossible;
but with God all things are possible.'
(Mat 19:25)

Hello @Devin Wintch,

God is indeed impeccable. thank you.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[farouk]

1 Corinthians 15.57 speaks of the risen Lord Jesus's great victory.

 

[Taken]

Nope! And God didn't skip that judgment either, who is Jesus! John 3:18.

Um, yes.

WHEN Jesus suddenly appears in flaming, ALL the unsaved will be destroyed right then in the LoF, because they are "condemned already".

um no.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Earburner]

Um, yes.
um no.
Glory to God,
Taken

1. Since Jesus shall return in flaming fire, please explain the origin of the LoF.

2. Since the LoF is for Satan and the unsaved, when is it established as a reality for them:
A. Before Christ returns?
B. After Christ returns?
C. During Christ's return?

 

[Joseph77]

Aren't you confusing potential with actual? I don't know if you have experienced death first hand. My father died. My mother died. My step-mother died. My wife's parents died. My brother died. My sister died. I'll declare victory the day they walk around here and talk to me face-to-face. Resurrection life is a false construct. Being born again is the seed, not the flower.

Compare what the Creator of Life Says and Describes in His Word - somewhere like this, and more > they were continually full of peace, joy and righteousness. (throughout Scripture - who is/was blameless, holy, faithful, tortured for their faith in Jesus, walking in union with Jesus and with the Father as Jesus says in John 18, et al )
Not sometimes.
Not a little bit.
Not on and off.

Compare that actual happening, as the Creator Himself said happened.... (and may be happening ,by most unseen, today)
with what anyone different says today.

 

[Taken]

...Christ's Glorious return for His Church...

Christ's Return ? To where?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

You are of the Premillennial view, and I am of the Amillennial view.

Huh?
The only VIEW you have given regarding a millennium Reign is:

post # 799
"... fictitious "millennium" on earth."

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

That wild eyed concoction came about, due a complete misunderstanding of what the 70 weeks in Daniel (KJV) is all about.

Oh...So what IS the 70 weeks in Daniel (according to your understanding) All about?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

2 Thes 1-7
[7] And "to you who are troubled rest with us," when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

Who IS Troubled?
Who IS inviting Whom to rest With Them?
What does it mean to be at Rest with Them?


[8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Are the "Troubled Not IN rest" OR "Those at Rest" Subject TO Vengeance ?

[9] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Who (those NOT in Rest, or those In Rest) ?Shall be punished with Everlasting destruction from the Presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His Power?

[10] "When" he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


When: Shall the Lord "come" to be glorified IN His Saints?
When: He is Com-ing Or as this Scripture says Shall Come?

You do not Understand the Catching Up (aka Rapture) of The Lords People.

The Lords People ARE NOT the Troubled, "being Invited" TO Become MADE, IN Rest.

The "preaching" IS To Gods People, (ISRAEL) for "THEM" (Gods People), to Become IN Rest with The Lord. (Word of God), and Christ (the Power of God).

The "Lords People" ARE IN Rest.
Gods people (ISRAEL) were Sent the Lord.
Open your Eyes...
Gods People, Believe IN Gods Messiah.
Gods people (for the most part) have Rejected the JESUS "as" their Christ Messiah, SENT from God.

It WAS Jesus' (First Accepted BY men Of Gods People Israel) <--- Jesus' Disciples.
Jesus' Disciples were SEND out To continue Preaching TO ISRAEL, that Jesus IS Gods Christ Messiah.
The Disciples/Apostles Were ALIVE IN REST With Christ the Lord...and then Bodily Dead, IN Rest (and Saved) With the Lord.
For Centuries it has been primarily Gentiles, Who have Accepted:
The God of the Jews; the God of the Tribes of Israel, The God of Abraham, Jacob and Isaac, AND JESUS is the Christ Messiah Savior of God.

"When" the Lord COMES Back "TO" Earth...WITH Vengeance
"The Lords saints" are WITH Him.

Where DO you Think The Lord "Comes" From?

<<Where .. The Lord "Comes" From>> is besides your point, which is that <<"When" the Lord COMES Back "TO" Earth..."The Lords saints" are WITH Him>>. (bold GE)
Now that, is nowhere to be seen in <2 Thes 1-7> or further to the end of the chapter.
On the contrary the Scripture states,
8And then shall that Wicked be revealed [From heaven?! No, be raised from the grave!], whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming [ONTO earth]: .. with all .. them that .. then .. perish [on earth] .. 12That they all might be damned [on earth] who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." No saints spoken of here! No saints brought down from out of the 'heaven', here! No suggestion of saved the Lord brought with Him from heaven. None!

 

[CadyandZoe]

Compare what the Creator of Life Says and Describes in His Word - somewhere like this, and more > they were continually full of peace, joy and righteousness. (throughout Scripture - who is/was blameless, holy, faithful, tortured for their faith in Jesus, walking in union with Jesus and with the Father as Jesus says in John 18, et al )
Not sometimes.
Not a little bit.
Not on and off.

Compare that actual happening, as the Creator Himself said happened.... (and may be happening ,by most unseen, today)
with what anyone different says today.

@Joseph77
I'm concerned with the confusion that comes with category mistakes. Walking in new life is not the same thing as resurrection. These are two different things. Remember, walking in new life is a foretaste, a down payment on the glory yet to come.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

* Jesus "Came" to Earth.
* On Earth Jesus was "Revealed" with Power.
* Then revealed; BY God, that Christ, IS the Power of God.
* Jesus was Seen "Leaving the Earth" into the Clouds.
* Jesus IS IN Heaven.
* Gods Power (Christ) IS IN Converted men ON Earth.
* The Lord, IS Going to Leave Heaven., By Descending "TO the Clouds."
* While "IN the Clouds", Christ IS Going to Call up To the Clouds, His Church, For His Marriage Ceremony TO His Church, His People, His Bride.

Then Begins...The Lamb of God, "IN Heaven" Opening the SEALS.

The First Four SEALS reveal the Anti-Christ, with Power...to Control, Kill, Mark.

Men ON Earth, Gods People (ISRAEL)...are neither Christ's People, IN Christ, His Church, or His Bride.

God Sends HIS Servants to Preach TO His People (Israel).
First...two Servants...
Then 144,000 Servants 12,000 each Tribe...
And the Lamb of God.

Gods Faithful People (ISRAEL), Begin Believing IN Christ Jesus...Reject the Anti-Christ...Commit a VOW of Allegiance TO the Lord God...and Become Bodily Killed...Saved IN Christ....they Come Out of the Tribulation,
Soul Raised UP To Heaven...Wait for their Body to Be Raised...After Jesus' 1,000 yr Reign With His People.

So no, the Rapture is NOT Jesus Descending from the Clouds TO Earth.
The Rapture is precisely The Lord Calling His Bride To Him.

Glory to God,
Taken

Not Bible. Not Jesus' Gospel. No thanks.

 

[Taken]

1. Since Jesus shall return in flaming fire, please explain the origin of the LoF.

The LoF -
...is a Pit in Hell that IS Continuous Fire.
...it's Origin is of Gods Creation and Making.
...God is All-Knowing of What His Creations WILL Freely Choose To BELIEVE and DO.
...God has created, made and prepared A Habitat For All of His creations, (with Freewill).
...Gods Creations With Freewill, Are:
Celestial (aka Heavenly) beings (commonly called Angels), and Terrestrial (aka Earthly) beings (commonly called Man-Kind).
...Celestrial beings ARE "spirits".
...Terrestrial beings HAVE a "spirit".
..."spirit"... IS the "beings" Truth.
Celestrial beings were Created "WITH" Gods Truth.
Terrestrial beings are Born "WITHOUT" Gods Truth.
...a Celestrial being...has the Freewill TO Reject Gods Truth; and Devise "their own" Truth.
...a Terrestrial being...has the Freewill TO Devise "their own Truth" and Believe "their own Truth...OR Learn Gods Spiritual Truth, Believe Gods Spiritual Truth, AND make a VOW of Commitment To Gods Spiritual Truth and Reject "their own" Natural Truth.
...Freewill...OF Celestrial and Terrestrial Beings Shall Determine Each Individual beings Everlasting Existence.
...A Celestrial being IS a spirit. Spirits never Die.
...A Celestrial being that HAS Freely Chosen TO Reject Gods Truth...
* First LOST Access TO their Heavenly Habitat (Estate)...By God Casting "them" Down From Heaven TO Earths Surface and Earths atmosphere.
* While ON the Earths Surface, "These Cast Down" Celestial Beings Have Been Influencing Mankind TO Follow their Deception of REJECTING Gods Truth.
(And NOT To Forget, God has repeatedly SENT From Heaven "His Faithful" Celestial Beings TO Earth To Encourage Mankind To Learn and Accept Gods Truth.)
* They (Corrupt Celestial Beings) Shall be Given (ONE) portion of Time "TO Govern" the World/Nations/Mortal Mankind, ON Earth.
* They Shall (Be Then Removed From the Surface of the Earth)...Sent "Temporarily" To Hell, IN the Earth (Not the LoF).
* After 1,000 years, "They" Shall Be Released From their "Bondage IN Hell", Returning TO the Earth's Surface....and Earth's atmosphere.
* They Shall ONCE Again SEEK out Mortal men ON the Earth, Encouraging Mortal men to Reject Gods Truth.
* They ONCE Again will Have Success Over Some Mortal men.
* All remaining Mortal men Shall Die...
Of Both the Faithful and UnFaithful.
The souls of the Faithful Shall Go to Heaven.
The souls of the UnFaithful Shall go to Hell, and Wait Judgement With the Rest of All time Waiting Unsaved Souls.
* The Celestrial Beings Shall Also Engage IN Battle with Heavenly Angels In the Earths Atmosphere.
* It is at THIS POINT the Son of Man...(who "This Time" ) Comes/Return "TO EARTH", "WITH POWER" and
* BY His POWER "CASTS DOWN" "IN" A Fire Pit Deep "IN" the Earth, (aka Lake Of Fire)...
ALL Celestrial Beings that Have For Centuries
Deceived Mankind, To Stand Against Gods Truth.
* Forever Those spirit beings Shall Burn in an Unquenchable Fire, but Never Die.
* The Living souls (in hell) of bodily mankind WHO Rejected Gods Truth...shall...
* have their Living Soul Returned to Their dead bodies.
* their Bodies (still Corrupt), Shall (with Their Living Soul) be RISEN UP In Hell, For JUDGEMENT.
* They See the Son of man.
* They Stand Before Him.
* They BOW Down to Him, IN Belief He IS the Lord God.
* The Books, (Gods Records of Evidence) Are Opened.
* Gods Book of Life, Reveals "their Name" has Been Blotted out.
* The Lambs Book of Life, Reveals, "their Name" was NEVER entered Into His Book.
* Their "Sentence" follows Their JUDGEMENT.
* Their Natural spirit (Truth) Was Never Born Again, but simply Remained in their Natural Body.
* Gods Breath, (Life) in Their Living Soul, Departs their soul, and Returns TO God.
* Their LIFELESS "Body And soul".. Is CAST INTO the LoF, to Burn up to Utter Darkness Forever...and BE Forever "Separated" From the Lord God, From Born Again Mankind...AND Forgotten.

2. Since the LoF is for Satan and the unsaved, when is it established as a reality for them:
A. Before Christ returns?
B. After Christ returns?
C. During Christ's return?

Study the Scriptures.
God SENT "the Son of Man" To Earth.

Matt 18:
[11] For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

Matt 20:
[28] Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

It Was the "Son of Man" that Returned TO Heaven.

Acts 1:
[9] And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
[10] And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
[11] Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


It IS the "Son of Man", who Came to Earth, Left Earth and Shall Return" To "Earth".

Mark 13:
[26] And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

All Shall SEE the Son of man RETURNING TO Earth

Christ IS God.
Mortal men CANNOT "SEE" God.
It is The Son OF man, that Mortal men CAN SEE.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I'm concerned with the confusion that comes with category mistakes. Walking in new life is not the same thing as resurrection. These are two different things. Remember, walking in new life is a foretaste, a down payment on the glory yet to come.

<<Walking in new life is not the same thing as resurrection.>> I am sure Revelation 20 says the contrary, "the Thousand Years, THIS The First Resurrection"--as foretaste, a down payment on the glory yet to come at the Resurrection Of All At His Second Coming and Peace on earth ever after. Sela

 

[Taken]

Not Bible. Not Jesus' Gospel. No thanks.

Yes Scriptural.
I can not read it for you.
I can not study it for you.
I can not understand it for you.
I ask Not for you to Believe me...
Merely Suggest you Read, Learn and Trust Gods Word.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Mortal men CANNOT "SEE" God.

Mortal men cannot "see" God AND LIVE.
At Christ's Coming
all mortals wicked and saint,
saved and lost,
the living and the dead raised,
shall see Him.
By the Brightness and Power of His Coming
the saints, saved, living and raised,
"shall be changed" and
"put on immortality",
and
"with the Brightness and Vengeance of His Coming
the wicked, lost, living and raised,
shall be "consumed" and
with "the last enemy, death, destroyed".
Sela

 

[Taken]

<<Walking in new life is not the same thing as resurrection.>> I am sure Revelation 20 says the contrary, "the Thousand Years, THIS The First Resurrection"--as foretaste, a down payment on the glory yet to come at the Resurrection Of All At His Second Coming and Peace on earth ever after. Sela

There have Been Umpteen Resurrections (raising OF the Dead) in Scripture.

The First Resurrection IN Revelations is a Reference TO TWO Last Resurrections, OF the Saved souls, Raised in Glorious Bodies.

Rev 20
[5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

^ That is The Resurrection of Gods People ISRAEL...ISRAEL (Gods People), Who Remained Faithful TO God, to their Bodily Death. Their Souls Saved, IN Heaven...and They Wait For AFTER (the Lord Jesus' 1,000 year Reign "with" His People,) For Their DEAD Body to be Raised IN Glory.

Rev 20:
[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

^ That is the Resurrection of Jesus' People, who while Alive in their FLESH Body, Were Faithful To God and Jesus "their" Christ AND Lord Jesus....WHO ARE Resurrected And RISEN UP in a Glorified Body, and Reign WITH "Their God, Christ the Lord Jesus" For 1,000 years ON Earth.

Death HAS NO Power Over ...Christ Jesus' Faithful People OR Gods Faithful People.

1 Sam 2:
[29] ...Israel my (God) people.

John 17:
[11] ...Holy Father, (God) keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, (Lord Jesus).

All of Gods People ( After the millennial Reign) And All of Christ the Lords Jesus' People ( Before the millennial Reign) Each Have AN "altogether" First Resurrection...(which Death has no power over).


No man, while IN his FLESH Bodily Life, Faithful To God...Or Faithful To God and Christ The Lord Jesus... Are Subject TO a Second/ Resurrection, for the purpose of Final Judgement of A Sentence of Damnation (Eternal Separation From God).

Glory to God,
Taken