Since you put it that way, ok. If I execute someone for murder, I would definitely expect to get executed if I murdered someone. If I murdered someone, you know what? I would expect the death penalty to be used. Even if I didn't execute anyone, I would still expect it! I think almost everyone, deep inside, knows that if they murder, they should pay with their life!
Death Penalty
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Since you put it that way, ok. If I execute someone for murder, I would definitely expect to get executed if I murdered someone. If I murdered someone, you know what? I would expect the death penalty to be used. Even if I didn't execute anyone, I would still expect it! I think almost everyone, deep inside, knows that if they murder, they should pay with their life!
There are only two sides to this debate: For or Against. I am affirmative, you are negative. I thought that I have already made my point clear. I am not advocating death penalty for everything. I am advocating that the death penalty is NOT removed. I have no idea what your question is concerning.
So be it. Since I would give the death sentence to some murderers, let be so for me as well, that if I do a similar crime, I get the same punishment.
It's all about MERCY! Those who advocate mercy will receive mercy. Advocating the death penalty is NOT mercy.
discipleHelovestoo
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- May 14, 2011
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we've all likely heard of cases where someone on death row for years was proved innocent by the relatively recent ability to test for DNA. i know of a man in my area that was convicted by testimony of several witnesses and sentenced to be executed, only to be proved innocent years later by DNA testing - and the actual murderer confessed to the crime once the DNA evidence pointed to him instead of the man wrongly convicted.
it is clear to me from the New Testament - the scriptures i've offered as well as others - that the death penalty is not for today from the perspective of Christianity. Even if you have a different understanding of New Testament scripture on this subject, there can be no denying that innocent people have been executed by mistake while murderers went free due to the mistaken conviction of the innocent.
since we can't agree on what the New Testament teaches about the death penalty, the core of this subject lies in who is qualified to judge and condemn - and i don't see how any Christian could claim absolute correct judgment (much less the unsaved judges in our court system) - if no one is qualified to judge absolutely accurately without error, then no one should be executed. someone sent to prison by mistake can have a life once the error is corrected by the justice system; but there is no correcting a mistaken judgment that results in execution. 'when you steal from a man, you take away what he now has in this life, this can be returned to him; but when you execute a man, you take away all he will ever have in this life' (rough quote from a movie)
as far as taking someone's opportunity to be saved by executing them, I find it impossible to believe that the God who is Love would allow anyone to go to hell without more than enough opportunity to decide for themselves. those who go to hell will do so only after struggling over countless obstacles of Love that God has placed in their path; i don't see that executing someone condemns the judge - this was also paid for by Jesus - He paid the price of sin for the WHOLE world. what sends people to hell is rejecting the God who has already paid the price for sin; not the 'sins' people commit here in this life - they have already been paid for.
Romans 2:1 KJVR
(1) Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
it is clear to me from the New Testament - the scriptures i've offered as well as others - that the death penalty is not for today from the perspective of Christianity. Even if you have a different understanding of New Testament scripture on this subject, there can be no denying that innocent people have been executed by mistake while murderers went free due to the mistaken conviction of the innocent.
since we can't agree on what the New Testament teaches about the death penalty, the core of this subject lies in who is qualified to judge and condemn - and i don't see how any Christian could claim absolute correct judgment (much less the unsaved judges in our court system) - if no one is qualified to judge absolutely accurately without error, then no one should be executed. someone sent to prison by mistake can have a life once the error is corrected by the justice system; but there is no correcting a mistaken judgment that results in execution. 'when you steal from a man, you take away what he now has in this life, this can be returned to him; but when you execute a man, you take away all he will ever have in this life' (rough quote from a movie)
as far as taking someone's opportunity to be saved by executing them, I find it impossible to believe that the God who is Love would allow anyone to go to hell without more than enough opportunity to decide for themselves. those who go to hell will do so only after struggling over countless obstacles of Love that God has placed in their path; i don't see that executing someone condemns the judge - this was also paid for by Jesus - He paid the price of sin for the WHOLE world. what sends people to hell is rejecting the God who has already paid the price for sin; not the 'sins' people commit here in this life - they have already been paid for.
Romans 2:1 KJVR
(1) Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
The reason we can't agree on what the NT says about the death penalty is because it does NOT say a thing! lol. That's exaclty why I picked this topic! About the quote of stealing, etc. Has it ever occurred to anyone that by murdering someone, you have taken their life? Stolen their life?
So now you have become both judge and jury? God's mercy is not up to you, and I thank God for that.
What you're doing is buying into the lies of the children of darkness by refusing to support the death penalty. The death penalty, and even war, is necessary at times for this present world, which is why Apostle Paul showed support for both in 1 Timothy 1 and Romans 13.
By suggesting that we be merciful?
This isn't about "God's mercy". It's about whether WE give mercy or not.
Fine then. You demand death for others. I will give mercy. We'll see whom God approves of.
"Blessed are the merciful. They shall receive mercy."
Prentis
New Member
Hmmm... Here's my two cents (again) ;)
If we are christian, and are in the world but not of it, what do we have to do with the government and the authorities of this world? What does the believer have to do with the unbeliever?
We are to shine his light and fight in the Spirit. We are to love and walk by the Spirit. If they want to kill us, fine... We have an inheritance with Christ, and we will be rewarded for what we suffer for Christ.
Why get mixed up with this world? We are to be working for God's kingdom.
If we are christian, and are in the world but not of it, what do we have to do with the government and the authorities of this world? What does the believer have to do with the unbeliever?
We are to shine his light and fight in the Spirit. We are to love and walk by the Spirit. If they want to kill us, fine... We have an inheritance with Christ, and we will be rewarded for what we suffer for Christ.
Why get mixed up with this world? We are to be working for God's kingdom.
Yeah it is about God's mercy, because HE is WHO tells us what behavior are merciful!!
Why did Christ tell His disciples to go buy a sword for those who didn't have one in Luke 22, if He meant we are to allow our enemies to simply run over us?
Being martyred for Christ is one's personal choice. But when it comes to defending the widow and those who aren't able, that's a different thing. No greater love hath man than to lay down his life FOR A FRIEND is what our Lord Jesus said, not about laying it down for one's own self.
Wrong. It's about whether YOU and I give mercy or not. That's what WE will be judged by. We are responsible for OUR actions, not God's.
Jesus told them to get swords to fulfill the Scripture.
Luke 22:36-37
36 Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 37 For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: 'And He was numbered with the transgressors.'
Jesus told them to NOT use their swords.
Matthew 26:52
52 Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword.
Just can't get around the fact that Jesus told them to go buy a sword can you? No, you cannot. And when two of His disciples then held up TWO SWORDS, He told them that was enough (Luke 22).
That's applying an outright LIE to that Scripture, because that was about the priest's goons coming to arrest Jesus to crucify Him. Peter drew his sword and cut off the ear of one of the goons, and Christ told him to put up his sword. It was because Christ Jesus came to die on the cross for the remission of sins, and the sword would have prevented that then. That is the ONLY reason there for Jesus telling Peter to put up his sword!!!
John 18:36
36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if My kingdom were of this world, then would My servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is My kingdom not from hence.
(KJV)
THAT is why Jesus told Peter to put up his sword. And... it is also why Jesus told His disciples in Luke 22 also to go buy one who didn't yet have one...
Luke 22:36
36 Then said He unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
(KJV)
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Yep. All sin can be reduced to the same sin - Pride or ego love. Depression is anger pointed towards the self - Pride is love directed at the false self rather than God and others. Like an ingrown toenail.
BTW, Ducky is right about this topic.
Christians in the NT were persecuted to the death. There is not even ONE instance of any Christian using violence against anyone. God's people in the OT used plenty of violence. But none in the NT.
So then, tell us where any Christian in the NT used a sword against anyone.
You just answered your own questions. They DIDN'T fight.
"All those who take the sword shall perish with the sword."
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Micah 4:2-4
[sup]2[/sup] Many nations will come and say,
“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
to the temple of the God of Jacob.
He will teach us his ways,
so that we may walk in his paths.”
The law will go out from Zion,
the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
[sup]3[/sup] He will judge between many peoples
and will settle disputes for strong nations far and wide.
They will beat their swords into plowshares
and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation will not take up sword against nation,
nor will they train for war anymore.
[sup]4[/sup] Everyone will sit under their own vine
and under their own fig tree,
and no one will make them afraid,
for the LORD Almighty has spoken.
Prentis
New Member
Ah. I do agree we should help the helpless. But I was commenting on the OP, the death penalty which is a government institutionalized punishment.
Sorry if I missed the point. :huh:
Sorry if I missed the point. :huh:
The Biblical context of Peter drawing his sword was in trying to prevent Christ's crucifixion.
The verse where Jesus said His would fight if this world was His kingdom was ALSO in context of PREVENTING HIS CRUCIFIXION...
John 18:33-36
33 Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto Him, "Art Thou the King of the Jews?"
34 Jesus answered him, "Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of Me?"
35 Pilate answered, "Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered Thee unto me: what hast Thou done?"
36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if My kingdom were of this world, then would My servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is My kingdom not from hence.
(KJV)
One of the most important matters in this world is paying attention.
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